Doc_Wui

I like e-bikes. I've put motors on three old bikes that were hanging from the garage rafters. I think they are a lot of fun, and if you ride them in low level pedal assist mode, you can get some good exercise. I lost almost 20 pounds riding my regular bike and ebikes in 2015-2016.

They can be expensive at over $3000 for high end models, but I typically buy a motor kit for about $200, Batteries cost $300-500.

Trek 800 55 pounds after I added front shocks 500W rear hub motor. 18 mph. Motor and battery was $500 on ebay.


Diamondback with a 250W hub motor. 44 pounds. I bought the motor from China and laced it into a 700cc wheel.

linberl

E-bikes can serve a purpose. When I retired, I had not been on a bike in 20+ years. I bought a step-through ebike which I rode for about a year. It gave me the confidence I needed to know I would not get stranded. After that first year, I sold it to another woman who was in the same situation. I bought a couple 1990 Trek bikes and fixed them up and rode them for a few years (no power). Then I fell in love with Bike Friday and restored an old 2003 bike and sold the Treks. The BF has no motor, but if and when I can find a solution that works for me (easy on and off the bike) I will get one - solely to use when I ride with my adult son. He pedals 25mph and I'm good for around 14-15 tops for a long duration. He has to wait for me to catch up when we ride. An assist that could propel me at 20 mph would make riding together a lot more fun. But I would not want it on the bike any other time; I do LIKE using my own power and benefit from the extra effort health-wise. I was hoping Shareroller would come out with version 4, but doesn't seem likely now :-(. Motors have their uses. Maybe when I am in my 70's I will want it for more consistent use, who knows?

Kindaslow

The folks who support ebikes are clearly outnumbered. And, the folks who do not support ebikes have made many bold statements that are not supported by facts, and those individuals in all likelihood have no experience or very little experience with ebikes. Yet, he put out some opinions about people thinking they are racers, when few of us are. If you believe that that is obnoxious, then maybe you should spend some time on a busy MUP near us here in the Seattle area (the experience is likely to provide you a second look at this). Forums have some great folks, some folks not as great, and some completely delusional. So, if you think that nobody here believes or thinks the way he described, then it might be you having fantasies and not him.

jppe

One of our locals posted a video of him using one on a much longer ride than what he'd normally do. I'd definitely consider one but doubt I'll ever actually buy one.

jon c. 

When I returned to riding in my mid 50s and joined this forum, I never would have imagined that such bias against recreational road riders existed within the cycling community. First I heard it from urban 'utility' riders and now from e-bikers. "If you wear bike gear and ride a road bike, you must think you're a racer," they intone with disdain. Nothing could be further from reality. I'm pretty darn slow and I know it. But I'm having fun and that's all that matters to me. I don't care what anyone rides or how they dress. Why should they care what I do?

I have no negative feelings toward e-bikes. The technology is pretty cool. I just don't happen to choose to ride a motorized conveyance. Does that really make me a delusional wannabe racer? Nah, I'm just an older guy who enjoys riding his bike.

Kindaslow

You say you don't care, but then refer to Ebikes as a motorized conveyance. "Just an older guy who enjoys riding his bike" is said as though Ebikes are not bikes. There is a ton of bias against Ebikes.

I am not here to promote Ebikes, I am just tired of the subtle and not so subtle attack on them. I promise, riding an Ebike is riding a bike. And anyone that is concerned that I have picked an Ebike due to laziness is welcome to jump on their SS MTB and hit the trails with me on mine. Many will be wanting an E MTB after a bit. I am no racer, and I know that, but the assumptions about Ebikes in this thread are ridiculous at times and misinformed in general.

FBinNY 

Let's try to stay reasonable. It's nobody's business what someone chooses to ride, or even whether he chooses to ride. So, bicycle, e-bike or electric motorcycle anyone is within their rights, and I don't have anything good or bad to say about that. By the same token, if they give up the bike for roller skates, that's OK too.

IMO the only legitimate fodder for debate about e-bikes is on the legal/regulatory front. This is important because e-bikes blur the established line between regulated motorcycles and unregulated bicycles. This fuzziness creates a legal limbo, and if e-bikes proliferate without well crafted laws properly classifying them and a clear line separating what's regulated from what's not, we risk trickling down of regulation to areas we don't want to see it.

Otherwise I see great potential for e-bikes to improve the lives of many people, from those who just want a bit of help riding a bike, to those who actually want light motorized transportation. For my part, while I'm not ready yet, I see the day where I'll want some help riding hilly terrain (hopefully I'll live long enough to get there).

My dream bike will have a light motor, small light battery, and generator hub, allowing me to store some excess energy from descents, or when I'm cruising along well, for that extra burst to get up hills. For all practical purposes, I'd be providing all the motive power, just banking it for when I need it, so (IMO) it would be a bicycle in every respect.

jon c. 

Honestly, no. You're reading way too much into that. An e-bike is motorized. There's nothing pejorative in that.

And the fact that I enjoy riding my bike isn't a put down of anybody's choice of bicycle. It was said in the context of being a rather slow rider who is under any delusion that he is a racer.

Kindaslow

I agree that legal issues will be a hurdle. If they really can limit them to 20 mph, I would see that as a positive. However, that could be tough. I ride it as an alternative way to commute. I commuted for years without an Ebike, and the choice was not about fitness, but knee issues. I have huge hills that torture my knees after 30+ years of martial arts. I have been very happy to learn that the cardio is still very good with my Ebike. And, I am a mountain biker, not a road biker, so losing the traditional road bike was not an issue to me.

InTheRain

So instead of riding a fixie or single speed, you didn't even bother to modify it be easier to ride faster, you just went and bought an 11 speed off the shelf so you could go faster for a longer period of time. You ride a light weight bike with more gears than you'll ever need because you don't want to put in the time to get fit enough to ride a single speed? when you start down that path... what's the difference between a road bike and a road vehicle? Is this the point you're trying to get across?

Like I said, I have never seen a modified ebike. However, I can say that 90 percent of road bikes that have been owned for more than a year (including my own) have been modified in some way from there off-the-shelf conditon to make them lighter, quicker, and easier to ride all for the sake of making them faster (without the extra effort to improve fitness to make those gains.) I have modified every bike I have ever owned... including the ebike (but never touched the motor) which in itself was a modification to the original 9-speed touring bike.

InTheRain

I'm a recreational road rider. I've never raced and never will. I also ride an ebike. While you may not have a bias towards those that ride ebikes, those of us that do ride ebikes definitely feel the bias. Most of that bias comes from those that ride the same area and terrain that we ride on our ebike. Many think it's a fitness thing... they believe that we don't deserve to go that fast (20 mph) since we didn't train to be able to power the bike on our own (which is also false, there are plenty of times that I've ridden my road bike at 20+ mph for short stretches.) They think it's "cheating." How can you "cheat" if you're not competing?

I love my road bike, but it makes a lousy commuter for most of the year.

InTheRain

I'm so tired of the ebike excuse "I might get one for my wife." Implying how great and fit all the guys are and their wives have no chance of riding anywhere close to the speeds the guys ride. Not once have I heard a woman say, "I might get one for my husband so that we can ride together."

Fitness really has nothing to do with gender. I've ridden with a social/fitness group and have accepted the fact that there are women, both older and younger, that are more fit than I am. There is no shame in it. I'm thinking I should take my ebike to one of these rides just so I could ride with them, rather than get dropped by them - they all seem like pretty nice people.

momsonherbike

I converted a vintage bike - a beautiful woman's Giant crosstrail that had been used, abused, broken and discarded at a thrift store for $5 - into a sleek, FUN 250w front hub ebike. It is a BLAST to ride, and kept me biking through the entire summer last year as it allowed a damaged knee to happily continue to heal while I enjoyed biking on the regional and local rides. I'm never without a smile while riding it, and it makes biking anywhere tons more appealing to me. 40 mile recreational/benefit rides are now fun and 100% doable irregardless of hills, weather, etc. My bike kicks in and helps me when I ask, or just floats along being a simple 21 gear "normal" bike when I want. My decision, always. I no longer worry or stress about terrain, distance, or my knee.

It has opened up a whole new world of cycling fun for me that I never would have tried without it.

Not the same as a motorcycle (which I used to have in my 20s) - an ebike is vastly different. QUIET, uncomplicated, unobtrusive, gentle, quick, QUIET, helpful, motivating, QUIET. Did I mention how quiet it is?? Even with the available assist, you never forget it is still a bike. And it still gives you that great biking joy, but with a heck of a lot less anxiety for going the distance, dealing with traffic, or riding unfriendly terrain.

I have TRIED to encourage my husband to let me get him an ebike - I'll buy him ANYTHING, no matter how expensive, to get him back on a bike so he'll ride with me - but he says his days of cycling are done. He wants nothing to do with riding bikes, even though he was never off one when he was young and used to do competitive rides, racking up thousands of miles each year and was a member of at least 3 cycling clubs. He loves that I'm having fun, and comes to the rides with me and happily sits and waits for me to return...but won't join in. So, my ebike gives me a nice, welcoming sense of security out there on the lonely long roads, knowing that a simple touch of a button will engage it to help me if needed. I feel more secure, and less worried - which means I enjoy my rides even more than on a regular unassisted bike. Much more.

Right now my ebike is sitting on a trainer, letting me get my biking fix in (with a fun group of French guys cycling through the French countryside - all courtesy of YouTube) when the weather is bad. Loving my trainer! Son just bought me new touring tires for the ebike because he knows I'm going to be putting a lot more miles on it this year at the benefit rides, and he wants me not to worry about flats. Love how the men in my life enjoy me enjoying my bike.

PS - never have felt a negative bias for my ebike from other riders, but sure as shooting have experience a vast amount of envy and want when they see what my bike's system is capable of providing me. I always am fielding lots of interested, impressed questions when people realize what I'm riding. Guess because I'm female there is less expectations that I would want to enjoy some of the (arguably) masochistic properties of cycling that a guy would expect to "man up" to and just suffer in silence.

Dan Burkhart 

I didn't need an excuse. The simple fact of the matter was, If I wanted my wife to join me on rides longer than about 10 km, some sort of assist was the only way it would happen.
She has no interest in pushing her limits, and will stridently resist anyone else that tries to push her. She just wants to enjoy the ride, so building an electric bike for her made the difference between being able to spend a morning riding together or not.

big john

Our road club (500 members) banned e-bikes from our rides. I wasn't part of that decision.
I can see potential issues with fast groups, pacelines, etc. when an e-bike can bring a different dynamic to the mix.
There is also the possibility of people with no group skills suddenly being able to keep up with fast riders. I have seen this with super-fit guys, (eg;runners) crashing and/or taking out other riders.

big john

That's really a stretch.

CrankyOne

All good points.

Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, and other countries with high rates of bicycling have been facing numerous problems with e-bikes. E-bike riders very often go faster than they are capable of maintaining good control. They also tend to have a bit less consideration for others than people who are 100% powering themselves. Those that use it purely as assist and maintain a normal speed (typically about 11-13 mph on urban bikeways, somewhat faster outside urban areas) are not a problem.

There are ongoing discussions to further limit the overall power and the power curve. They seem to be settling on never more than 50% of power from assist with tapering required beginning at 9 mph and with 0 assist at 15 mph. There are exceptions for elderly, people with disabilities, and some cargo carriers who need more than 50% assist but the tapering will still remain.

The big problem they're facing is what to do about the current mass of bikes already on the road that don't meet these criteria. They're wishing they'd gotten ahead of the curve faster.

badger1

This,

350htrr

Regulating E-Bikes IS going to be a problem I think, as the limit in general is way too high. 750 watts a throttle and 28 MPH cut out makes an E-Bike a moped... 350 watts and assist only with a cutout at 20 MPH is about right IMO, tho some countries have it at 250 watts assist only and a cut out at 15 MPH...

badger1

... and this.

I do not know anything about the issues in other areas of North America, but I do know about the issues as they affect my region.

We have an extensive MUP system, together with designated hiking trails, that runs co-extensively with our river(s). The question 'what to do about e-scooters and e-bikes' (our regulatory framework [Ontario Highway Traffic Act] makes this distinction) is a vexed one.

Our MUP system formerly had a speed limit of 30kph. Its use was -- and is -- restricted to non-motorized vehicles. The one exception was, and is, for "a wheelchair or similar device (motorized or otherwise) used by an individual due to a mobility disability."

Through the 2000s, e-scooters began to proliferate illegally on the MUP system, causing all kinds of problems consequent on excessive speed/lack of control. Later in that first decade, e-bikes began to show up as well, in their several iterations. Again, there were numerous incidents.

In the result, a new set of by-laws has established the following compromise consequent on, among many other factors, representations made by local cycling advocacy groups. The current regulatory situation is this:

1. The speed limit on the MUP has been reduced from 30kph to 20kph. No exceptions.
2. E-scooters are prohibited from all parts of the MUP/trail system. No exceptions.
3. E-bikes are permitted on the MUP, but only under unassisted pedal (human) power. No exceptions.
4. E-bikes are not permitted on the unsurfaced portions of the trail system, whether these pass through ESAs (Environmentally Significant Areas) or not. No exceptions.
5. Bicycles are permitted on those unsurfaced portions of the trail system that do not pass through ESAs.
6. 'Wheelchairs or similar devices whether motorized or not' may be used by persons with mobility disabilities on the MUP and on accessible unsurfaced trails.

As far as on-street riding is concerned, e-scooters and e-bikes can be used under power on designated commuter bicycle paths and lanes that are within the right-of-way of major roads, subject to applicable Highway Traffic Act requirements. We have a fairly extensive system of such paths and lanes.

Since the enactment of that framework governing use of our MUP system, there appears to have been a noticeable calming effect and there appears to have been a reduction in the number of actual incidents (confrontations, close-calls, accidents and the like) on the system where 'powered vehicles' of one sort or other are involved. I say appears because this is based solely on my observations and those of other people I know, including some police officers; these are not 'researched' conclusions.

dbg

I really like this. It is certainly possible to use a drive motor to "regenerate" a battery since motors and generators can essentially be reverse uses of the same device. I like the idea of engaging the motor on descents to recharge the battery. I'm creating the potential energy by climbing the hill, and storing it back into the battery on the descent. Very cool. I like it.

(and I apologize for any part I played in kicking this thread sideways)

dbg

More thoughts on that cool idea from FBinNY...
I imagine a setup where engaging the motor without pedalling would perform a regenerative braking function. Anytime I need to scrub off some speed, I can store it back into the battery. If I want to claim some sort of "purist" status, I might start all rides with no charge in the battery and count on always storing my own power (nah). The year I rode a recumbent on a group ride I noticed a yo-yo effect where I had trouble keeping up on the longer climbs, but would catch up and scream past the group on descents. This idea could maybe fix that. Hmmm.

Robert C

People on the e-bike sub-forum know me. I am going to jump in here by saying I live car-free. That means I don't even have a car. Instead I use my e-bike.

No one who sees it mistakes it for a moped, motorcycle, car, or dump-truck. The only people that do not see it as, what it is, a bicycle are people here on just drive a car forum. A lot of the people on just drive a car forum try to define things that are, in law, bicycles as other things: motorized bicycles, mopeds, motorcycles, dump-trucks . . .

The thing is that these types of vehicles already have definitions, and those definitions generally, do not match the definition of bicycles, e-assist or otherwise. This is where some smart person tried to jump in with "what law, whose laws? there are lots of different laws in different places." The answer remains simple, the law in the jurisdiction where it is being applied.

Frankly I am glad that the just drive a car forum attitudes are losing in state legislatures in the US. I am glad because I like being able to continue my car-free life. Those of you trying to make e-bikes as inconvenient as possible, and restricting their use as much as possible, are, thankfully in the minority. In reality, most people don't care much about my bicycle one way or another.


not a motorcycle or dump-truck

fietsbob

Aprilia's hydrogen fuel cell powered bike was an interesting project..

The use as a motor paced Derny replacement for the winter indoor Track Season, should have been pursued ..



IMO

jon c. 

I suppose that depends on what one means by "fitness." Athletic ability really does have something to do with gender across the entire population. That certainly doesn't mean some women are not faster than some men. I've been dropped by a female paceline and I'm passed by female riders on a regular basis. But on average men are going to be faster than women.

Billy Jean King could tackle an aging Bobby Riggs (and weren't we all glad to see it), but she couldn't take on Arthur Ashe.