Pedals...flats..cleats and confused
 

OK, i've done the search...and got more confused...

Currently I'm using the standard pedals that came with my bike... from looking here I see they are flats... and so far they work fine, I use normal trainers, and have slipped off a couple of times but ok...

So I was looking online to buy some riding shoes... then I noticed that the soles have the 'cleats' for attaching to the pedal i.e. SPD type... but on detail inspection the profile of the bit that attaches to the pedal are varying types... so how to know what shoes work with which type of pedal.. I realize that all will work with flats, its if I go over to SPD type pedals... then I need the correct sole fitting...

Idiots guide is what i'm looking for, if someone could steer me in that direction I'd appreciate it.

Its a few years since I've ridden so times have moved on...

Most shoes can work with different kinds of cleats and pedals and the description on the shoe will say.

Then you buy the cleats and pedals you want.

Shoes are sold separately from the cleats and pedals, and in fact, you can buy cycling shoes and opt not to use cleats and pedals if you want ... especially if you go with mountain bike style shoes. Just leave the cleat mounting area covered.

Like these, randomly grabbed from Wiggle ...

wiggle.com.au | Giro Rumble VR Off Road Shoe | Offroad Shoes

They say: Cleat Fitting- 2 Bolt SPD Type: Yes



Then you'd go and look for SPD cleats and pedals.

As Machka said, the shoes can handle multiple (though usually not all) cleat systems, so you can hold off on the shoe decision for the moment.

The decision is really about either the pedals you want (which dictates the cleat system), or the cleat system you want, which will narrow the pedal choices. Once you've decided pedals and cleats, then you look to the shoes, skipping the few that won't work for you.

Sometimes you might approach it from the other end. For example, if you want cycling shoes for touring or utility riding, the ability to walk comfortably will be a consideration. That will usually mean some kind of mtn biking shoe, with the cleat pocketed into the sole. That means SPD cleats, and then you'll shop SPD pedals.

There are basically two standards:
- road, 3-hole mount, bigger cleat, no treads on the sole.
- MTB, 2-hole mount, smaller cleat, treaded sole.

Some road shoes are drilled for both cleats.
MTB shoes only take MTB cleats.

Cleats and pedals are matched pairs. Cleats and shoes only have to match by hole count.

Only ever seen SPD pedals in 9/16" thread. This is by far the most common, but not the only one.

Road shoes and cleats are unpleasant to walk in, and the cleats wear fast if you do. MTB shoes are OK.
Road shoes are supposed to offer better support, power transfer etc due to stiffer soles and the bigger cleat. MIGHT be true compared to dual-use hiking/biking shoes, but not to the type I use.

thanks for the quick responses.. the mist is clearing... the 3 hole and two hole through me a little but now I see that trainer type tend to be 3 hole MTB... and the sleek things 2 hole for road.

Cleat and pedal match, so would cleats actually come with the pedal and you attache them yourself to the shoe? or do you have to buy shoes, cleats and pedals separate and make sure they are comparable... sorry for the silly questions.

I prefer the trainer type.. for looks... when I see the sleek things I see picture 65kg Italian Tour di xxxxx rider...and that's just not me... so I assume you can anyway put MTB pedals on a road bike...

Cyclist has become technical hasn't it....? Amazing how the marketeers can take a sport and create so many niches...

Cleats for shoes fall into two categories. 2-bolt cleats such as Shimano SPD that bolt into two nuts in slots in the sole of the shoe. Bike shoes with that system are common. Many of those shoes are fully "walkable" meaning you are not walking on the hard metal of plastic cleat but instead on rubber lugs. (Store owners and those with hardwood floors will thank you.) Then there is the three bolt system that was designed for road racing. Two widely spaced bolts at the rear of the cleat and a front bolt. LOOK was the original clipless pedal manufacturer and came up with the 3 bolt system The cleat is big enough that they do not lend themselves to walkable shoes. Some cleats have soft rubber covers you can slip on to protect floors (and yourself from slipping) but walking is still awkward. Most of the shoes that can accommodate the three bolt cleats also have the nuts for two bolt cleats but the reverse is usually not true. Most of those three bolt shoes have smooth hard soles as they are almost always intended for racing.

Pedals and cleat systems vary more than the shoe types. There is the Look system, starting with the now obsolete Delta, now KEO (not compatible with Delta. There is the original Shimano system, SPD, by far the most common. Then there are the Eggbeaters by the crank Brothers that are favored by many cyclocross racers as they tend to shed mud well. Speedplay pedals that are very small, neat and light. Plus many others.

A driving force in clipless pdal design has been rotation, ie a pedal that allows you to be locked to the pedal for efficient power transmission but at the same time, allow the foot to rotate. Some pedal allow unlimited rotation with the pedal offering no resistance to the rotation. Pedals differ on how the rotation happens. Some rotate about the forward part of your foot, some further backat the center of the pedal. Some pedals tend to keep your foot in line to varying degrees. On many you can dial in the level of that resistance. On some pedals you can lock out the rotation completely.

You asked a big question. I tried to give you enough on what the pedal choices are that you can ask the next question. For now, just keep in mind the issue of two bolts vs three because that choice shapes a lot of your options. (I'm guessing you want a 2 bolt system but be aware.)

Edit: you posted while I was writing. Yes. Pedals come with the cleats you mount on your shoe. And as I said above, yes, pedals and shoes have to be based on the same bolt pattern, 2 or 3. The shoes you describe are almost always 2 bolt shoes. For a no-brainer start, you could by a pair that fits comfortably then get the Shimano SDP pedals and cleats. Very reliable pedals. Probably millions out there. Every bike shop has seen them.

I say that and I resisted for decades because I am one of those who does far better with no-float pedals, ie having my shoe locked into the pedals; no rotation so I used older systems that allowed that. (Don't worry. I am not trying to sell you an anything except hopefully pedals that work for you. And more than anything I say, keep an open mind. Your first system may not be "it". But when you are there, you will know why so many of us never go back.)

Ben

Road pedals/cleats tend to be 3-hole. The traditional Look pedal system.

Mountain bike pedals/cleats tend to be 2-hole. The traditional SPD pedal system.


Cleats, pedals, and shoes come separately, so yes, you attach whatever cleats you've got to your shoes.


By "trainer type" do you mean like runners?

wow, thanks, I think I'm at the understanding stage, will venture forth and peruse knowingly at my local bike showrooms.. Here in Malaysia Shimano seems the way to go, and everything else on my bike is Shimano anyway, so in my head now is Shimano SPD, and the choice and price seem OK.

Machka, yes trainers are runners.

"Trainers" in the U.K. = "Athletic Shoes" in the U.S. Not sure what term Canadians or Australians use.

OP - great advice above so no reasom for me to write my own redundant reply. Just two thoughts for you:

You asked about putting mt bike pedals on a road bike - yes absolutely many do for comfort reasons with the shoes/walking off the bike. I have mt bike pedals on 4 of my 6 road-ish bikes (I'm including my tri bike and my 'cross bike as variants of the category). Just more comfortable overall riding experience for me.

Those are all dual-platform pedals. One side is flat so you can ride in any shoe or boot, the other side takes spd clips. Living where the weather can change rapidly, I like the freedom of choice dual platform pedals give me in footwear - it literally has gone from 80 degrees and sunny to 30 degrees with 14 inches of snow in 2 days here. Also nice if you are just in the mood to hop on the bike and ride a mile or two to grab a bite to eat or a quick errand and you don't want to bother to change shoes - I quite often need some little thing from the grocery store, hardware, pet supply or pharmacy and it is literally a 3-5 minute ride, so not worth the bother of hunting up my bike shoes.

Runners or sneakers ... or when looking at mountain bike shoes, probably more like hiking shoes.

Mine are like these:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/10...g?v=1472045413


And my pedals are the dual sided ones with a platform on one side and SPD clip-in area on the other side. These:

http://www.wigglestatic.com/product-...=430&h=430&a=7
wiggle.com.au | Shimano M324 Combination Pedals | MTB Clip-In Pedals


I'd recommend that the OP have a good look at what's available on a site like this:
wiggle.com.au Cycle | Shoes

reminder - there are other ways to prevent your feet from slipping off the pedals while riding, such as flat mountain bike style pedals with studs that dig into your shoe bottoms. or you can use mini clips (old term) on your current pedals. that's my preference cuz I have too many bikes & shoes to mix & match & ride yr round w rubber covers & snow boots, plus locking my foot to the pedal is a choice that's not for me. I'm too much of a clutz I think. folks who use clip in style pedal seem very happy tho & there are plenty of ways to cover that style of shoe for rain & snow. good luck choosing! :-)

Ditto the recommendation for Shimano M324 if you are looking for "trainer" clipless. My wife and I have used them for years. We ride a mixture of stop and go city streets and open trails. It is nice to have a flat side to use for one foot when you are inching along.

I have several bikes, and to reduce the number of shoes that I'd need (without having to constantly switch cleats) I've only ever used one style of clipless pedal on all of them. And of all those sets of pedals I've purchased...every set has come with a set of cleats. Since I've never purchased other styles of clipless pedals I can't say if there are some that don't come with a set of cleats included. But I think 'most' do come with a set.

Depending on the pedal/cleat design...sometimes cleats wear out and/or break. Replacements can be purchased either from the manufacturer, or various off-brand vendors. You can also purchase cleat covers that prolong the life of the cleat if you tend to walk around in your cycling shoes a lot.

Dan

Just one more reason to choose Shimano SPD. This winter I decided to train on a stationary bike at the gym. The Keiser brand bikes use Shimano pedals. The type with the closure on one side only. Using the same shoes I bike with on both of my bikes is an advantage.

Well, I found the Shimano M324, they sell for about USD 120 here in Malaysia, but I found them online for USD 45 delivered.. so step one is done. I think the flexibility of the flat of one side and fixing on the other is a good way in. Shoes I will need to buy locally as I have wide feet and always need to try on. Shimano are well represented here and reasonable and Decathalon just opened their first store here and do reasonable cycle shoes at very good prices.

Thank you for all the help, I sure the info on this thread will help other returnees like.

Cheers from KL

3 hole in hard to walk in hard sole road racer shoes* are a pattern Look of France established..

the Recessed walkable, cleat down to the surface of the shoe ,are a Shimano established standard..

In both standards other companies make their products comply with those standards, to get a slice of the sales pie.


* you will see the 2 bolt pattern in the center of the 3 bolt hole set.. shimano offers the cleat + 2 'pontoons'..
(they also paid the patent licence fees to Look, so they could manufacture the same pedal type Look originated.)

...that are to support the sides of the pedal, in the same way the edges of the cleat pocket do,
in the walkabout rubber sole shoe..

Typically called A Mountain Bike shoe rather than a Trainer... you put your trainers on at the end of the race to

step up to the podium to receive your Prize..



:innocent:

Look made Ski Bindings , Shimano made Fishing reels , originally...

Shimano is still big in the fishing equipment market..

Guess I wont be needing trainers in the cycle world then.... I do finish though..:)

I strongly recommend flat pedals with pins ('MTB' or 'BMX' pedals). They grip JUST as well as cleats and allow you to wear a wide range of non-dorky shoes.

Look introduce pedals and cleats in the 1980s:)

I was looking for a pedal thread so I could show these wooden platform pedals a NCSU engineering student friend of my daughter has made. They look nice I think....what do you guys think?
http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/o...647b24a173.png
I have two bikes with Look type clipless pedals and three with platforms, and I honestly prefer the platforms for convenience. We don't have that many hills around my area so I'm not standing a lot, and I've never had a real problem standing with platforms. I should look into those dual-sided pedals like Machka suggests.

So glad to see so many people recommending platform pedals with regular shoes. I may have missed a few posts, but it seems that we never really got to know what type of riding the OP intends to do.

I have done several overnight bike rides, commuted to work five days a week, and enjoyed many, many hours of recreational rides using $15 platform pedals and $29 New Balance sneakers. Having followed these forums for a long time, I am sure there are people who find that using bike-specific footwear and pedals improves their enjoyment of the ride in some way, but I think even these people will agree that you don't NEED any of this stuff to get on a bike and go.

Very Cool .:thumb: