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Just placed an order for more drugs!!!!

Old 05-08-17, 10:24 AM
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Just placed an order for more drugs!!!!

With the heat and humidity on it's way along with several long tough cramp inducing mountainous rides, I just placed an order for Hotshots. I've tried everything and it's the only thing that's really made a huge difference. I've tried being super hydrated, electrolyte capsules, potassium and magnesium supplements, quinine, mustard and pickle juice. I'll still carry a flask or two of pickle juice and only take the Hotshots as needed but I wouldn't leave home without it! What's in your wallet????
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Old 05-08-17, 10:30 AM
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I am very skeptical...
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Old 05-08-17, 11:06 AM
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I do Endurolytes and I've taken to carrying a tin of Alka-Seltzer. I'll have to give Hotshots a try.
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Old 05-08-17, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by gilpi View Post
I am very skeptical...
I was too. But it worked miracles for me. It was a free sample so that's why I tried it. They Currently have 50% off the first 6 pack so I pushed the purchase button. Not cheap stuff but I'm hoping this one six pack gets me through these events.
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Old 05-08-17, 05:47 PM
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My wallet is full of temperate Pacific air all summer, now that the sun has decided to come out more regularly. It's been a low mileage winter & spring until recently.
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Old 05-09-17, 02:39 AM
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I got dehydrated last week during a ride on a cool, overcast day. As with the last time I got dehydrated (30+ years ago), I misjudged my water consumption and drank only when I was thirsty, which wasn't enough. Felt great the first 30 miles, then miserable the final 5 or so miles home. Had leg cramps and nausea that night and felt kinda puny the next couple of days. Realized when I got home I'd had less than 16 oz of water that whole ride, not nearly enough for the effort expended.

So I got some water soluble electrolyte/glucose tablets in a plastic cylinder to keep in the tool bag. They're not icky sweet or chemical tasting like Gatorade and other pre-mixed sports drinks I've tried.

I'll probably start making switchel again like I did last summer. Seemed to help. Tastes good so I'm likely to drink plenty, easy to make and I usually have all the ingredients at home anyway.
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Old 05-09-17, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
I got dehydrated last week during a ride on a cool, overcast day. As with the last time I got dehydrated (30+ years ago), I misjudged my water consumption and drank only when I was thirsty, which wasn't enough. Felt great the first 30 miles, then miserable the final 5 or so miles home. Had leg cramps and nausea that night and felt kinda puny the next couple of days. Realized when I got home I'd had less than 16 oz of water that whole ride, not nearly enough for the effort expended.

So I got some water soluble electrolyte/glucose tablets in a plastic cylinder to keep in the tool bag. They're not icky sweet or chemical tasting like Gatorade and other pre-mixed sports drinks I've tried.

I'll probably start making switchel again like I did last summer. Seemed to help. Tastes good so I'm likely to drink plenty, easy to make and I usually have all the ingredients at home anyway.
Not drinking enough is easy to do. When I've cramped I've usually had plenty of fluids and electrolytes. "Over" Exertion can trigger then as well. I guess I still try and ride harder than I should for my fitness level???
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Old 05-09-17, 02:27 PM
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I've read many theories about hydration, dehydration and the related symptoms -- muscle cramps, nausea, dizziness, etc. There's no consensus on why some otherwise normal, relatively healthy and well nourished people experience cramps, etc., and others don't. That uncertainly is probably what fuels the magical fuel and elixir market.

Looking back over the long history of traditional thirst quenchers and remedies, many contain similar ingredients and similar historical anecdotes associated with them.

Hotshot contains some of the same stuff that goes into many traditional thirst quenchers like switchel, haymaker's punch, etc: a bit of sugar or sweetener, which gives a quick energy boost; a bit of salt -- I doubt the type matters, salt is salt whether it's table salt, sea salt or magical Himalayan salt lamp; various flavorings -- ginger, spices, -- to satisfy the palate and encourage us to drink more. Other remedies include vinegar, pickle juice, or citrus flavors, which add a satisfying tartness that probably encourages us to drink more of the stuff that's mostly water. People's tastes differ, so some folks enjoy sweet, others sour. The combinations are probably intended to appeal to both.

Best I can figure, the purpose of these is to encourage people to drink more. Drink more magical elixir -- which are mostly water -- get better hydrated from the water. If the elixir tastes good or feels refreshing, the body buys the psychological persuasion.

There may be some scientific evidence connecting the physical effects of stuff like sugar or other sweeteners, salt and ginger to more rapid absorption or reduced nausea. Same reason why cola seems to work to reduce nausea. Or it may just be psychological -- it tastes good, we perceive it feels good, so we drink more and feel better.

I dunno. Stuff like switchel is cheap and easy to make, probably works as well as the expensive elixirs, tablets and gels. Last night I brewed up a batch of stuff that's a variation on some traditional brews, with black and green tea, honey, ginger (I use the pre-ground stuff in plastic tubes from Kroger), a dollop of cider vinegar, a bit of bread yeast. Let it sit overnight on the counter in a jug with a lid that can "burp" itself but sealed against critters. The fruit flies seem to like it -- found 'em swarming around the lid, although they couldn't get inside the jug.

I may add a little salt, some nutmeg, cinnamon, etc., for flavor. We'll see. It varies and depends on what I have in the cabinet.

Some folks swear by pickle juice. I doubt vinegar has any magical properties. It's water, salt, and some folks find it more thirst quenching than sweetened drinks. Whatever works. Vinegar from pickling, wine, etc., especially with salt, is a traditional thirst quencher because it's self preserving and can last for months without going bad. So it has thousands of years of anecdotes supporting it.

Ditto, fermented drinks. Old as the earliest forms of alcoholic beverages, which most folks find pleasurable. And it's reasonably self-preserving, with thousands of years of anecdotes supporting it. So we believe it must be good for us. I like beer, so I like this theory.
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Old 05-09-17, 02:36 PM
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BTW, I've also been trying Glukos tablets (from REI) the past week. It's just glucose, a bit of salt, citric acid for flavoring and preservative. Seems to work, doesn't make any extravagant claims, just does what glucose does.

It doesn't dissolve well in water, so you end up with a mouthful of chalky sort of debris. Some folks dislike that. Doesn't bother me, one of my favorite candies is Necco wafers, which are pretty much just flavored chalk but darned if I don't get hooked on 'em.

I also looked at diabetic rescue gel packs at the pharmacy. They seem to be pretty much the same stuff that goes into gel packs marketed to cyclists and other athletes. But the stuff in the pharmacy marketed to diabetics costs twice as much.

I've used gel packs a few times toward the end of a 30-60 mile ride when my legs began to feel mushy. Got me through the final 5-7 miles okay. They seem to do what the makers claim -- a bit of a boost from sugars, easily absorbed.

No idea about effects on cramps, I've had that only a couple of times and it was due to not drinking enough water and probably inadequate prep before the rides -- a few days without adequate rest, nutrition, etc.
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Old 05-09-17, 02:37 PM
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Old 05-09-17, 04:01 PM
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The supplements that I have tried make me nauseated after about an hour. I have been going straight water. But I know I need something to keep my minerals up. I will give these a try.
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Old 03-30-20, 05:01 PM
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Anything you're taking include THC?
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Old 03-30-20, 05:08 PM
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I use nuun in my water bottle and I think it helps. I use the one with caffeine, to me caffeine is good!😉
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Old 03-30-20, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by uraniumman View Post
Hey guys, I am using different supplements like potassium and magnesium, different stuff like this. Now I have to pass a drug test for a job. Is everything going to be fine ?
As long as nothing is on the govs list of schedule 1 drugs, I wouldn't worry.
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Old 03-30-20, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by uraniumman View Post
Hey guys, I am using different supplements like potassium and magnesium, different stuff like this. Now I have to pass a drug test for a job. Is everything going to be fine ?
Dunno - are you going to be tested for isotopes? Maybe excessive emission of gamma, beta, or alpha radiation?

Probably just the usual stuff - residues associated with pot,, cocaine, opiodes/opiates, meth, and whatever else people use to "self-medicate" these days.
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Old 03-30-20, 07:13 PM
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Currently just drinking water. However . . .back in my running days we used a stuff called Gookinaid, developed by a biochemistry professor at San Diego State University. IT came out about the same time as Gatorade so never got a lot of publicity. Its now sold under the name Vitalyte. I thought about trying it again so used some REI dividend money to get a pack of it for free. REgular cost is about $20 for enough to make 80 12 oz servings.

I cant stand Gatorade, it makes me nauseous if I drink it when tired. Its not the same stuff as in its early days, seems like its made with too much sugar.
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Old 03-30-20, 07:21 PM
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Since this thread started I've modified my usual pre-, during and post-ride drinks and snacks. I just kept experimenting until I found a few things that work reliably and are easy to find.

While most sports drinks and snacks contain the same ingredients, the balance seems to be important... and very individual.

For everyday use before and during rides, one of my water bottles will have a packet of cheap Propel electrolyte powder and a spoon or so of Six Star 3X creatine mix. That's usually good enough to stave off muscle cramps. And the creatine helps with short duration maximum effort bursts, such as sprints, or exercises using weights, body weight or resistance.

For emergency hydration I carry one or two Mylar packets of Drip Drop. They seem to have nailed the perfect balance of electrolytes and sugar for rapid oral rehydration. Last summer I used it on two different people suffering from heat exhaustion and they felt remarkably well within 15 minutes, and one of them finished the bike ride (albeit at a much easier pace). They both said it seemed to work better than their usual preferred sports drinks.

Drip Drop is a bit pricey, although no worse than any premium brand electrolyte mix. I usually buy it at Walgreen's when it goes on sale and buy two or three cartons at a time. I find the slender Mylar packets much easier to tuck into even my smallest saddle bag, than the Nuun tablets and other brands. Check the Drip Drop website. It doesn't seem to contain anything unique, but they got the balance right. At a buck apiece or slightly less, it's been worthwhile just to see in action how well it works on folks who were overcome by heat and dehydration or improper hydration (such as taking old fashioned salt tablets, usually a bad idea).

In snacks, I've narrowed it down to Clif bars. I like the flavor, texture, price, everything. I've tried every other brand and type available and had to discontinue those using sugar alcohols like maltitol. While sugar alcohols are good fuels, they give some of us terrible gas. It's more funny than uncomfortable -- for me. But it wouldn't be pleasant for anyone riding behind me. Clif switched to plain sugar which works well for most healthy folks, not only for an energy boost when we bonk, but also helps with quickly absorbing water. That's a good thing for folks who don't like the flavor of sports drinks, but do need a bit of help with absorbing water to avoid bloating.

But since this thread started in 2017, I've dropped 10-15 lbs, and adapted to riding farther at reasonable effort with little or no food. I'm not into full keto, but have changed my diet a bit, eliminated most junk carbs and sugars (sorry, Dunkin Donuts, I still love you and miss you, but let's face it... we weren't a good couple), and added more meats, fats, etc. I still take sugar in my coffee, or pre-sweetened Dunkin Donuts creamer (my favorite, and we still have a long distance relationship, sans donuts). I still have maybe 3 lbs of body fat pudge around my belly and hips, but that will come off by itself as I continue long, moderate effort bike rides without eating. I drink plenty to offset any hunger pangs.

My pre and post ride beverage, and sometimes meal, is a shaken concoction of protein powder (usually whey), various additives and supplements, creatine, etc. Seems to help. I may feel a bit peckish during a 2-hour or longer ride, but I don't bonk anymore. Sometimes I'll have oatmeal before a long ride, often adding an egg or two for a nice custard texture and bit of fat for long distance fuel.

Changes in diet and exercise haven't improved my top speed, but my average speed/time over distance is a little faster, so I can sustain a steady effort longer. I'm no mountain goat but my climbs have improved from dead last on every Strava hill segment to middle of the pack.
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Old 04-01-20, 05:08 PM
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I use Endurolytes for any ride over 50 mi if the temperature is over 70 deg.
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Old 04-01-20, 05:43 PM
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Sometimes if you're undertrained for a ride you're attempting, hydration and electrolytes will help to stave off cramping - for a little while anyway. But basically, cramping is a result of being undertrained. Dehydration will affect your performance after about 2%, but won't cramp you if you're properly trained, and well, don't take it all the way to near-death. Electrolytes levels are taken care of by natural bodily function, especially if you haven't overloaded your system by supplementing with them. You'll need less salt on a ride if you use little in your daily live. Shoot for 3/4 t./day, never salt your food. Sounds backwards, but that's how it works. My shorts never have salt on them, no matter what.

I also take Endurolytes, same as Fastcarbon. I take 1/hour, some need a little more. An Endurolyte contains 40mg sodium. Each capsule also contains small amounts of other electrolytes. The key is "small amounts."

The thing with Hotshots, pickle juice, mustard, etc., is that it's taste. Only taste. The actual ingredients which create these certain tastes have nothing to do with it. It's not the electrolyes or the sugar or anything other than the taste. The taste tells your brain to stop the muscle cramps already! And that works. No one knows why or how we evolved with this mechanism in us, but we did.
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Old 04-01-20, 08:45 PM
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There are some highly trained athletes who'd dispute the notion that muscle cramps are a byproduct of under-training. Nobody knows for certain what causes muscle cramps/spasms. Boxer and multi-time world boxing champ Manny Pacquiao has suffered leg cramps at times and has enough money to spend on any cure, if one exists. Hasn't happened.

I've had stomach and gut pain from dehydration (without any visible or palpable muscle twitching), but it's not the same thing as my occasional muscle-twitching spasms that are visible and palpable. Those spasms have no pattern and no apparent relation to my training. They can hit my feet, especially the arches, calves, quads, hamstrings, abdominal muscles... it's never the same. When it's my neck and shoulder I know why -- old injuries to those areas.

The stomach and gut pain from inadequate hydration is always fixed within 15-30 minutes of chugging enough water with electrolytes. Not so, the more obvious and painful spasms.

That's why there are so many products and claims for magical potions. We all find what seems to work for us.

Magnesium lactate works for some of us. I was tipped to it by a friend who uses Sportlegs. After checking the ingredients I decided to buy just the mag lactate since I already had the other stuff. Works for me. Although the first couple of times I used magnesium lactate I got gas, mainly lower GI, which was more embarrassing than uncomfortable. But after taking it pretty much daily that side effect stopped.

Spasms may also be related to inflammation. I resumed taking daily anti-inflammatories a month or so ago after going without for months. My endocrinologist and primary doc noticed my monocytes were chronically elevated, corresponding with the period I discontinued taking diclofenac. Due to a chronic auto-immune disorder I had to resume taking diclofenac and ordinary aspirin. Cut way back on my sinus inflammation and some kinds of muscle cramps and spasms.

Too many variables for any generalizations about what causes muscle cramps and what works to reduce the occurrence.
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Old 04-02-20, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
There are some highly trained athletes who'd dispute the notion that muscle cramps are a byproduct of under-training. Nobody knows for certain what causes muscle cramps/spasms. Boxer and multi-time world boxing champ Manny Pacquiao has suffered leg cramps at times and has enough money to spend on any cure, if one exists. Hasn't happened.

I've had stomach and gut pain from dehydration (without any visible or palpable muscle twitching), but it's not the same thing as my occasional muscle-twitching spasms that are visible and palpable. Those spasms have no pattern and no apparent relation to my training. They can hit my feet, especially the arches, calves, quads, hamstrings, abdominal muscles... it's never the same. When it's my neck and shoulder I know why -- old injuries to those areas.

The stomach and gut pain from inadequate hydration is always fixed within 15-30 minutes of chugging enough water with electrolytes. Not so, the more obvious and painful spasms.

That's why there are so many products and claims for magical potions. We all find what seems to work for us.

Magnesium lactate works for some of us. I was tipped to it by a friend who uses Sportlegs. After checking the ingredients I decided to buy just the mag lactate since I already had the other stuff. Works for me. Although the first couple of times I used magnesium lactate I got gas, mainly lower GI, which was more embarrassing than uncomfortable. But after taking it pretty much daily that side effect stopped.

Spasms may also be related to inflammation. I resumed taking daily anti-inflammatories a month or so ago after going without for months. My endocrinologist and primary doc noticed my monocytes were chronically elevated, corresponding with the period I discontinued taking diclofenac. Due to a chronic auto-immune disorder I had to resume taking diclofenac and ordinary aspirin. Cut way back on my sinus inflammation and some kinds of muscle cramps and spasms.

Too many variables for any generalizations about what causes muscle cramps and what works to reduce the occurrence.
My wife had idiosyncratic cramping, about as you describe. She increased her training volume and intensity. No more cramps. You might try that. I and other riders I know have had that same experience. Med tent blood analyses have shown that crampers and finishers with no cramps had similar hydration and electrolyte levels. The taste thing works for everyone AFAIK. A quick and cheap bedside cramp remedy is brand name Tums, peppermint flavor, and only the 500mg size. That's the only one with the right taste. Tums contain calcium, which has nothing to do with it because the cramping starts to ease off after about a minute. If it were the calcium, it would take 20 minutes. The downside to Tums is of course the high calcium load, which is not good for us. Thus pickle juice or similar is better, even though salt is not good for us either.

I used to take Sportlegs before a ride. I finally decided that they don't do anything if I'm in shape, plus they're expensive. Stopped, notice no difference. I take anti-inflammatories, but very seldom an NSAID like diclofenac, and only for 1 week at most. That NSAID is particularly dangerous: https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/meds/a689002.html

Instead, try turmeric, grape seed extract, resveratrol, pterostilbene, or a combination of these. For joints, try 2g daily of glucosamine sulfate and MSM.
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