IronM

I had an ocular migraine on a 24% climb a month or two ago. My HR was way at max something for longer than I'd like, and then my vision began to blank out! I had to stop for 30 or 40 seconds for it to come back. That was probably enough!
I don't have a 'max' HR that I can pin down. In the winter it might be 180; but in the summer, I've hit 192+ responding to critical hill attacks. However, if I have chronic fatigue loading, my max HR is going to be much lower - I might not be able to hit 170.

ericy

Agreed. I always cringe when people cite the "220-age" formula.

The problem is that a lot of the data in training (zones, for example) are all based on the max HR.

caloso

Yeah, but it's easily adjusted to LHR with a little extra data collection.

Don in Austin

It is terrible how much this bogus formula is referred to still! The cardiologist who came up with it disowned it decades ago.

Don in Austin

Don in Austin

Sad tp say, all too many cardiologists will say 220- your age!

Don

Don in Austin

You need a mean pit bull at your heels for true maximum!

bobwysiwyg

They will indeed. Now If he/she thinks you're fit enough and you are willing to pay out of pocket for a true stress test..

Bald Paul

Try this - you'll have to convert your height (feet/inches) to centimeters, and your weight in pounds to kilograms, but it includes a box for cardiac patients (like me).

https://www.ntnu.edu/cerg/hrmax

ericy

That happens to be a lot closer to what I think mine is, but in playing with it, the max HR seems to not depend at all on height/weight, and is only used to calculate the BMI.

caloso

Better, but still 12 beats lower than observed.

tigat

My deviation was 12 beats from tested, in the opposite direction. I guess that's how averages are formed.

Rudebob

The positive side of the 220 - age formula is that I routinely get "epic" suffer scores on my Strava premium. It is not uncommon for me to get "points in the red" for 50 plus miles on my longer weekend rides these days. The truth is I am not really working that hard, proof that generic formulas are pretty much worthless.

caloso

You can't set the heart rate zones on premium? I only have the free version so it doesn't display a suffer score (I suppose that's analogous to Training Stress on Training Peaks). I'm surprised it would use 220-age.

ericy

Sure you can. I don't really remember myself, but I suspect when you first sign up it chooses a default - probably 220-age or some such. But you can go in and edit it and set it to whatever you want. Under Settings/Performance. Same place you set the FTP.

ericy

Here it is. You can do it based on max, or choose custom zones.

Rudebob

You can input your own, if you know it. I don't know what exact formula they use. My default on Strava is at 172, where the 220-age formula would put me at 166-so that is not exact either. I have never messed with it as I don't really know my max rate. I hit 186 two weeks ago on a ride that was not over the edge so neither formula is correct for me.

NoGears_NoTears

Probably a good idea when it comes to something as serious as this.
The cardiologist might prescribe OP some Beta-Blockers, which should settle his heart down.
I have Tachycardia due to a chest deformity, and I take Beta-Blockers and it works like a charm.

BlazingPedals

If I believed the part about the grade, I'd be impressed. Heck, if it was half that grade I'd be impressed.

david58

Please be careful...I will tell you why.

When my effort goes up, my blood pressure goes up faster. At the 80% threshold (using 220-age), my BP is not happy, nor is my ticker. Funky extra and skipped beats start to happen.

I can't tell when either is occurring.

Stress tests over the past 18 months have pointed this out, as did my training at cardiac rehab.

In other words, I am in my 60th year, not my 25th. It is not a signal of defeat, but I have to monitor my workout and be MODERATE - I aim more toward 65% of MHR and stay in the so-called fat burning range. I can still ride, both a long way and relatively fast for an old fat boy, but my goal is to be able to hike all day, play with my dogs without passing out, and to have a decent musculature. Medical research is beginning to understand "Athlete's Heart" and the problems that sustained high intensity cardio exercise can cause - I see no reason to push like I am a 25 year old, as that really isn't getting fit, it's just for bragging rights (paraphrasing my cardiologist, who was an Olympic distance runner).

Carbonfiberboy 

Ignore your maximum HR. Even thinking about it is IME, stupid. If you want zones, base them off your lactate threshold. If you don't know what that is, you can test and find it. There's a sticky in Training and Nutrition, plus you can google up other tests and systems for determining zones from LTHR.

Don in Austin

But you should NOT use 220-age. That formula has been totally discredited for decades.

Don in Austin

david58

Understood, Don. The point is that working to MHR is not wise, and other things can be going on well before that which you will not necessarily notice.

tourisme

If you have cardiovascular issues, then of course you should be careful. However, generalising from your particular case to suggest that high intensity exercise isn't for old people is quite wrong. There's a host of recent evidence to suggest that high intensity interval training is no less effective for older people than for young athletes, and seems to be much more beneficial for various metabolic markers than is just plodding along for hours. "Athlete's heart" isn't caused by going hard for short periods, it seems to be much more related to going hardish for very long periods.

david58

I try not to extrapolate only from my experience. You are right, interval training is good, and is likely in many ways the best way to train. And, also very correct, Athlete's Heart seems to be originating from long periods of high (or "Hardish" - I like the word and will steal it) effort.
I will reiterate my "be careful" statement, though. I cannot tell when, in the midst of higher efforts, when my heart is skipping or adding beats, or the ol' ECG waveform simply does not look right. The issue with that is not that there is a skipped beat here and there, but that I don't want those parts of the muscle to recruit other cells to join their dance, so to speak.
Get the stress test. It is a large percentage of folks that have their first experience with a heart attack be the one they die from. I was fortunate, at about 10,000' in the New Mexico mountains mine came on and it was mild enough that we could get me out of the woods and to the hospital. With the condition I was found to have, my normal hill-climbing efforts on a bike could have simply put me in the ditch and that would have been that. Get the stress test.
I have come to teh conclusion that I can concede a partial victory to age, for I am almost 60, not almost 30. I can reminisce about the miles and miles we ran in Converse All-Stars (on the road...), the mountains I was able to climb, and even the cycling achievements of my 50's (started late). I look forward to more climbs to high mountain rivers to catch wild trout, more hiking and hunting with my dogs, and many, many more miles on my various bikes. But I have come to understand my limitations, I think, and came to realize that I cannot train like a young man anymore. It took ticker issues that I was totally unaware of to bring me to THAT realization (along with some really mean cardiac rehab nurses). That, again, is why I urge caution...

ModeratedUser150120149

Boggles the mind all this emphasis on MHR. Certainly that is a mildly useful number for pro racers. For the rest of us what we are actually in need of is a measure of how our whole body is doing.


That measure is Work Of Breathing. Part of that was posted before.
-Easy exercise is when a person can carry on a conversation with little or no perceived difficulty.
-Max is when a person is gasping and cannot speak except with a great deal of difficulty.
-Unable to speak is entering, or in the anerobic zone and should not be attempted except for very brief periods.


A lot is going on in a person's body when exercising. Work of breathing sums it all up.