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Rude behavior is normal?

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Old 08-06-18, 07:19 AM
  #51  
indyfabz
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post

"Move Off Path When Stopped" instructions.
That sort of thing really drives me crazy. Earlier this year a gaggle of people were stopped. They were gabbing and literally taking up the entire path. I pulled up, stopped and looked at them. They looked back as if to say "Why are you staring at us?" They had zero clue as to how their behavior was impacting others around them. I finally said "Mind if I get by?"

Unfortunately, I see that sort of behavior more and more in other areas. From cell phone users totally ignoring other pedestrians on the sidewalk to people leaving their shopping carts blocking the entire aisle. Too many people going through daily activities as if they are the only ones on the planet.
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Old 08-06-18, 07:35 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
That sort of thing really drives me crazy. Earlier this year a gaggle of people were stopped. They were gabbing and literally taking up the entire path. I pulled up, stopped and looked at them. They looked back as if to say "Why are you staring at us?" They had zero clue as to how their behavior was impacting others around them. I finally said "Mind if I get by?"

Unfortunately, I see that sort of behavior more and more in other areas. From cell phone users totally ignoring other pedestrians on the sidewalk to people leaving their shopping carts blocking the entire aisle. Too many people going through daily activities as if they are the only ones on the planet.

Yep!!

On our cycleway, we'll get women with large baby carriages walking side by side at a snail's pace taking up the whole entire path. I'd have no problem at all if they stayed on one side, but nope.

I nearly mowed down a group of people a few years back ... they were around a corner and all standing right in the middle of the path pointing up at the trees as though they never even imagined that there would be cyclists on a cycling path!



If everyone stayed to one side, out of people's way, there would be no issues like this.
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Old 08-06-18, 07:46 AM
  #53  
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I've been riding a lot more singletrack lately and the rule is supposed to be the uphill rider has the right of way. Many people respect this and I try to accomodate those who do not but a young guy almost hit me head-on last Saturday on a steep trail. Maybe he was going for a Strava time or he was just a jerk.
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Old 08-06-18, 10:08 AM
  #54  
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Rude cyclists as opposed to rude dog walkers with their dogs on a 15 foot extendable leash, packs of running club people four or five abreast across the entire path, runners and walkers with earbuds who can't even hear you when you do give a warning?

Yeah, there's enough rudeness to go around for all types, not just cyclists.
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Old 08-06-18, 01:02 PM
  #55  
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In my experience its the moms in full roadie gear and dog-walkers in spandex---usually in World Tour team kit---that are the rudest people in the world. They never call out "In the way" when not passing.
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Old 08-06-18, 02:22 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by SpindriftEd View Post
Yeah, there's enough rudeness to go around for all types, not just cyclists.
Quoted For Truth.

And stereotyping a certain tribe of cyclist like many do (not you, but others) in their posts doesn't help the situation either.
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Old 08-06-18, 06:34 PM
  #57  
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I know of ONE BIKEWAY in the SF Bay Area -- the Cross Marin. But it's signage makes it clear it's a MUPS.
I much more commonly used to the East Bay Regional Parks trails, also clearly designated as a MUPS. Rules are clear, if you pause to read the small print: Stay left; 15 mph max; Use a bell; Dogs on 6' leashes and under control at all times; Be able to hear-- just common sense stuff.
I have never had an issue with using a bell. I use a ding----Ding-DING as I approach, and always say thank-you as I pass, giving them the maximum room and usually slowing. Many have thanked in return, enjoying the clear sound of the bell.
Once, leading a Scout bike ride, I made the mistake of allowing them to sprawl across the path. Another rider pointed out, calmly and politely that we should be to the side. Oh, gawd, of course! We immediately moved and used the incident as a learning experience.
Now what I hate. People with their dogs on extend-a-leashes. Once came, slowly, around a blind corner to find owner on one side with dog on the other on a 15-foot leash. I braked to avoid getting tangled, nearly falling over. Owner looked at me as if I had two heads.
The other hate is people with earbuds so loud I could sing along. I still warn and give a wide slow berth, but if they do something stupid, well, the rules are posted.
Finally, I agree with many others that a MUPS is no place for racing or for the Stravids. Yeah, I do sometimes excede 15 mph, but never when passing. My safety and enjoyment are no less than others (except around children-- theirs is MORE important.
Cheers!
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Old 08-07-18, 02:55 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr View Post
Quoted For Truth.

And stereotyping a certain tribe of cyclist like many do (not you, but others) in their posts doesn't help the situation either.
Agreed ... in fact, stereotyping a certain tribe of cyclist like many do, is actually the same trollish behaviour we've seen in other forums, like especially the General Forum.

We should all be on the same side ... we're cyclists, right? All enjoying cycling in our own way.
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Old 08-09-18, 11:13 AM
  #59  
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Good general rule: If you observe a large proportion of people doing something you regard as rude, a little introspection is in order.
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Old 08-10-18, 04:25 AM
  #60  
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I always warn with a flik of my bell or verbal "rider back" or "on your left" and appreciate others that do the same. I have been road biking since the early 70's and learned in my cycling class in college that a little courtesy goes a long way! Now there are a lot more riders out there and the whole courtesy thing is hit and miss. I very rarely get a warning from approaching "racers" on their way to setting a new world record or something. This is particularly alarming when on the back roads with narrow shoulders and a large group suddenly appears from behind without a sound and you find yourself surrounded with no wiggle room. Joe

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Old 08-10-18, 05:34 AM
  #61  
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12 years ago I spent a few weeks in then Ukraine now Russia. Everyone is rude to everyone there. No one forms lines. He with the biggest elbows rules. No one smiles unless they want something from you. And roads are the scenes of mass carnage.

I was free. There was nothing to take personally. You just got used to it.

I did did not adapt their ways (I’m a gamma male) but when I returned to the States nothing much bothered me for several months.

Sadly, after a while it wore off, and like everyone else I see acts of rudeness as personal affronts that must be avenged.

I try try to blow off acts of rudeness, but it is hard to do when rude crosses over into dangerous. I could only shake my head when a pace line of aero bar freaks passed me on the local MUP. Oh well.
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Old 08-10-18, 07:56 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by SpindriftEd View Post
Rude cyclists as opposed to rude dog walkers with their dogs on a 15 foot extendable leash, packs of running club people four or five abreast across the entire path, runners and walkers with earbuds who can't even hear you when you do give a warning?

Yeah, there's enough rudeness to go around for all types, not just cyclists.
This is all true except you don't usually see accidents resulting from a jogger running into a baby carriage. Or dog, etc.... Problem is mom's with kids, baby carriages, walkers with ear-buds, runners, etc... all can interact in a mostly safe manner. It's when you throw in bikes moving 3 times the speed of everybody else is when you induce problems. Factor in the triathlete doing their 22+ mph workout and it's an issue. Note that they have been called "bike paths" for a reason, mostly to get bikes off roads where they have to interact with cars doing 2-3 times the speed of the bikes. So now we open up and start calling the "bike path"s" Multi-Use paths and you the bike user are now more likely to have an accident on a path then road. Which is why I ride the road 95% of the time, as I've learned how to interact with cars, not so much the pair of mom's with carriages.
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Old 08-10-18, 08:59 AM
  #63  
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I keep making the same suggestion ... an absolutely fool-proof solution ... and everyone ignores me.

Ben-Hur hubs.

After the first couple rides, people will Definitely clear the path when they hear that bell ringing.
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Old 08-10-18, 09:10 AM
  #64  
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I only frequent two trails: the Santa Ana River Trail (SART) and the Pacific Electric Trail (PET.) The SART is a bike trail. Virtually no one is on foot. There are signs on the ground at regular intervals saying BIKES ONLY.

The PET is more of a multi-use deal, but it's about 90% bikes on it. Some short sections near parks see some foot traffic, but the concrete bikeway runs parallel to a 12' wide compacted dirt horse path (that I have never seen a horse on) so the joggers stay over there. Why would someone jog on concrete when there's a prepped dirt surface right next to it?

I don't announce my passing moves to anyone, unless they happen to be blocking the entire trail and I physically cannot get past them. If they're toodling along, I pass when the oncoming lane is clear. If a person has some aversion to being passed, they should ride faster.

When I see a stroller flotilla up ahead on the PET, I yell "RIDER UP!" from a decent distance. They invariably part in the middle and I have to go between them. But to other cyclists? Nope. People on bikes tend to range from unpredictable to downright squirrelly. If they don't know I'm coming, they have a slightly smaller chance of randomly veering into me.
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Old 08-10-18, 09:24 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Aubergine View Post

Not everyone can hear, so it drives me nuts to think that the person in front has some responsibility to react to a bell or callout. It is always the responsibility of the passer to ride safely and pass safely. Period.
A very experienced riding buddy of mine was seriously injured when an ear-budded runner suddenly U-turned in front of him without looking around at all. He was not going fast, was wearing a helmet, still sustained a fairly serious head injury. The runner was not injured. There's no way to defend against that sort of thing. Period. Same with children suddenly darting across the path, taking my wife out. She was riding relatively slowly and carefully. Many people seem to think that a MUP is the equivalent of their driveway, not a busy roadway.

I'm another one who shouts, "Coming on your left!" when I'm still a long way away, frequently more than once. "On your left" is too short a phrase. There's a time-delay in hearing. That's the reason that we usually start an unexpected voicing with some nonsense delay words like the person's name or "you know" or "I've been thinking", etc.

Saying "On your left" as one passes does produce startlement. The passer has already gone by when the startle reaction takes place, so they don't care about it or think it doesn't happen. It's the next rider who has to deal with it. Don't startle people when passing. Just don't. There was a lawsuit a while back after a woman was badly injured from her startle reaction when a paceline went by her at high speed. She was riding on the shoulder of an ordinary roadway. Bikes don't make a warning noise like motor vehicles do. It's up to the rider to make the warning noise.

Every road or MUP user needs to act responsibly. One would think we've all driven automobiles long enough to realize that. The phrase "defensive driving" came into general use decades ago.
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Old 08-10-18, 10:20 AM
  #66  
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Dude .... who has time for defensive driving while they are busy texting? Get with it.

I saw a young lady sit a three-way stop sign for about 2 1/2 minutes or more --two car came through going in other directions. I got stuck and had to wait for them because No one knew what the mystery car was doing.

When all the other cars had gone, I pedaled very cautiously across the intersection, expecting a sudden charge. Instead, she was oblivious even as a pedaled right past her window---staring into the screen of her cell phone, stopped dead in the middle of the road.
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Old 08-10-18, 10:23 AM
  #67  
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I once warned "passing on your left" and the walker moved to the "left". I guess that's all they heard was "left". Luckily I was far enough behind to avoid a collision. I also use a bell and voice and say "thank you" as I pass, still, if a person is using earbuds nothing seems to work. I'm not sure about the laws that pertain to MUPs, but on roadways, if you rear-end another car it's usually your fault for not maintaining adequate clear distance.
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Old 08-10-18, 10:28 AM
  #68  
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As far as I know, if you use all reasonable warnings and slow to a walking pace and a pedestrian still jumps in front of you, it's on them.

Pretty much anything else, it's on the rider. As has been noted above. safe overtaking is the responsibility of the overtaker.

Rear-ending doesn't really apply, as you are not following too closely .... Failure to Use Care and Caution in Passing is the citation one would receive, car or bike, I believe.

That's why ... if you hit a pedestrian, make sure to finish the job ... and take care of the witnesses, too. Safety first.
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Old 08-10-18, 10:50 AM
  #69  
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I don't really care about call outs/no call outs. My biggest peeve on the paths is riders who insist on splitting the path three across instead of slowing and waiting a few seconds for a safe opportunity to pass. The paths are not wide enough for three across. (usually me going the opposite direction of a ped, and an impatient cyclist behind them squeezing through the middle) Increased risk of crash and injury!

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Old 08-10-18, 11:02 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
Good general rule: If you observe a large proportion of people doing something you regard as rude, a little introspection is in order.
This is true. Many times we think something is rude but the problem is really narcissism and a focus on self - my needs, my rights, etc.

Someone once said, "Do to others as you would have them do to you."
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Old 08-10-18, 12:29 PM
  #71  
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I have a bell on my fatbike I was riding a trail and dinged the bell to alert some hikers and it scared them half to death I said ice cream. After that I just say hello but this isn’t a busy area very rural. On the C&O the bike bell came in handy.
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Old 08-11-18, 08:24 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
I only frequent two trails: the Santa Ana River Trail (SART) and the Pacific Electric Trail (PET.) The SART is a bike trail. Virtually no one is on foot. There are signs on the ground at regular intervals saying BIKES ONLY.

The PET is more of a multi-use deal, but it's about 90% bikes on it. Some short sections near parks see some foot traffic, but the concrete bikeway runs parallel to a 12' wide compacted dirt horse path (that I have never seen a horse on) so the joggers stay over there. Why would someone jog on concrete when there's a prepped dirt surface right next to it?

I don't announce my passing moves to anyone, unless they happen to be blocking the entire trail and I physically cannot get past them. If they're toodling along, I pass when the oncoming lane is clear. If a person has some aversion to being passed, they should ride faster.

When I see a stroller flotilla up ahead on the PET, I yell "RIDER UP!" from a decent distance. They invariably part in the middle and I have to go between them. But to other cyclists? Nope. People on bikes tend to range from unpredictable to downright squirrelly. If they don't know I'm coming, they have a slightly smaller chance of randomly veering into me.
Yes, my friends this is what makes Southern California so nice! No warning.... no problem , just ride faster?
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Old 08-11-18, 12:04 PM
  #73  
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This is a 9.4 mile segment, the very north end of the SART, from Waterman Avenue in San Bernardino to Mt. Rubidoux in Riverside. This is just from this month:



So if your pace happens to be slower than 20mph or so, plan on being passed. Expecting someone to announce it is just ridiculous. As someone has mentioned, do you toot
your horn at every car you're going to pass? If you ride on this:



...which is basically as close as we can get to a freeway for bicycles, expect "traffic" to be moving along at a decent clip. I'm not being rude by not announcing to every bike I pass.
I'm literally just minding my own business.
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Old 08-11-18, 05:08 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
Good general rule: If you observe a large proportion of people doing something you regard as rude, a little introspection is in order.
Yes yes yes!
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Old 08-11-18, 08:25 PM
  #75  
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The word is filled with folks, some are rude others not. Some are intentionally rude, while others it may be accidental. Maybe his dog just died or his GF broke up with him. You don't know.

Just be the best person you can be and ask for forgiveness when its your turn to be the jerk.

Its really that simple.
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