Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Fifty Plus (50+)
Reload this Page >

Bike Brake Light Video - Your thoughts?

Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

Bike Brake Light Video - Your thoughts?

Reply

Old 11-06-18, 10:38 PM
  #1  
kbarj
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
kbarj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 128

Bikes: Trek 8.3 DS (21)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Bike Brake Light Video - Your thoughts?

A buddy of mine likes to tinker. One thing he doesn't like is close calls when riding in a group and someone doesn't realize you are braking. So, he developed a DIY brake light system for his bike. When he put it together, he had a few design constraints.
  • It had to work for both the front and rear brakes
  • It had to let you take the wheels on and off without extra work
  • It couldn't interfere with the brakes or brake cables
  • It had to be relatively inexpensive
Here is what he came up with. I think it's pretty cool and that there is a market for a simple kit to do this yourself. What do you think? I told him I would post a video and we could get some feedback. Thank you.

kbarj is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-18, 01:21 AM
  #2  
B. Carfree
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 7,041
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 484 Post(s)
I don't remember what brand it is, and it wouldn't work for riding in pace lines because it's not quite sensitive enough for the tiny deceleration that happens there, but my wife's dyno-powered rear light actually has a brake light mode. It gets brighter when she slows down.

Overall, I think it's better for people to learn how to ride in groups than to try to invent their way out of poor skills/knowledge. When I rode in groups (don't tend to do so any longer because my cycling times/places/miles preference doesn't match up with many folks) there weren't a whole lot of hard braking events that weren't anticipated by the folks at the back.
B. Carfree is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-18, 02:23 AM
  #3  
DiabloScott
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 8,335

Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek, Bike Friday

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1972 Post(s)
I'm in favor of *other* people using those things.
DiabloScott is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-18, 04:30 AM
  #4  
KraneXL
🦃
 
KraneXL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: La-la Land, CA
Posts: 2,035

Bikes: Cannondale Quick SL1 Bike - 2014

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1580 Post(s)
It idea isn't a new idea, but we need to know more about how the product works. Can it work with any brake system? How complicated is it to install? Does it require any special electronic knowledge or tools? Is it a kit? And last but not least, we need to have some idea of how much it will cost. Did he do any market research? Does he have a target group?
KraneXL is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-18, 08:05 AM
  #5  
BobbyG
Senior Member
 
BobbyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 3,939

Bikes: 2015 Charge Plug, 1997 Nishiki Blazer, 1984 Nishiki International

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 689 Post(s)
Nice...might help in traffic.
BobbyG is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-18, 08:07 AM
  #6  
kbarj
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
kbarj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 128

Bikes: Trek 8.3 DS (21)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
It idea isn't a new idea, but we need to know more about how the product works. Can it work with any brake system? How complicated is it to install? Does it require any special electronic knowledge or tools? Is it a kit? And last but not least, we need to have some idea of how much it will cost. Did he do any market research? Does he have a target group?
Seriously, it's not a product. He was tinkering with something he thought was a good idea. When he showed me I was impressed and thought it had business potential. He didn't think there would be much interest. So, I posted it here just to get some feedback. If he bought all the components and did the soldering, and made the connections - I think he could sell it for under $50 and make enough to make up for his time and effort. Once it's put together, you install it with the supplied tape (maybe scissors to trim tape). It would work with any brake system that uses hand brake levers - that's where it picks up the signal for the lights. Nope on market research, and not really on a target group. He really just did it for himself. When he looked for a bicycle brake light product, he couldn't find one that lit up for both the front and rear brakes - so he decided to build one.
kbarj is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-18, 09:13 AM
  #7  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 10,013

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4548 Post(s)
I like the idea generally ... but as for safety it is generally worthless.

Brake lights on cars work because they are universal. When you are driving and the tail lights of the car shine bright red, you know that the driver has hit the brakes.

Nobody knows what extra lights on a bike mean. If a driver had already noticed the bike, he wouldn’t necessarily think the lights meant it was stopping.

The lights vastly increase the bike’s visibility—and for that reason, why not run them all the time? After all, if a driver knows there is a bike around, the driver will generally give it enough room anyway.

Unless most bikes are sold with brake likes, then extra lights on bikes don’t say “I am stopping.” That is not part of the language yet.
Maelochs is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-18, 12:00 PM
  #8  
steelbikeguy
Senior Member
 
steelbikeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 1,376
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 404 Post(s)
I'm all for people going out and making stuff themselves. Lots of fun and sometimes even useful!

Bike brake lights are something that gets invented over and over, mostly by people outside of the bike industry.
The latest one that I've heard of is by Cateye; the Rapid X2 Kinetic active light.
It senses deceleration of the bike and puts the bike in bright, steady mode.
The big advantage is that it doesn't require any extra wires, switches, and is independent of the bike's brakes.

No idea how much deceleration is required before it goes into brake light mode, so perhaps it won't detect light deceleration, or maybe it is activated by bumps and such??

As far as kits for others to add brake lights to their bikes, maybe that's one of those things that would be a good kickstarter project?


Steve in Peoria
steelbikeguy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-18, 01:06 PM
  #9  
Kedosto
Ambulophobic
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: San Leandro, CA
Posts: 758

Bikes: Specialized AWOL Expert, Specialized Sirrus Sport Disc

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 251 Post(s)
I have a dynamo powered taillight that features a brake light. I have this B & M on two bikes. B & M make a few taillights that sense when the hub is decelerating and pulse brighter. It definitely works, but the practicality (or usefulness) is debatable. The first one I bought mostly for the novel idea, the second because, well, why not? Like every other B & M product I've ever owned, they work flawlessly, so if a brake light helps, great. If it doesn't help, well, no real loss either. I'd agree that with the variability of bike taillights with all the blinking and flashing, a brake light is probably lost in all the noise. If the application of taillights on bicycles was standardized, brake lights might be useful.

-Kedosto
Kedosto is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-18, 02:09 PM
  #10  
tcs
Palmer
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 5,327

Bikes: 1980 Mike Melton, 1982 Stumpjumper, 1982 Santana, 1984 Alex Moulton AM7, 1987 Dahon Classic III, 2007 Cannondale Capo, 2010 Dawes Briercliffe, 2017 Dahon Curl i3

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 288 Post(s)
Originally Posted by kbarj View Post
I think he could sell it for under $50 and make enough to make up for his time and effort.
Amazon offers the Sigma brake light for $6.54. There's a $1.79 brake light on GearBest.
tcs is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-18, 02:14 PM
  #11  
tcs
Palmer
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 5,327

Bikes: 1980 Mike Melton, 1982 Stumpjumper, 1982 Santana, 1984 Alex Moulton AM7, 1987 Dahon Classic III, 2007 Cannondale Capo, 2010 Dawes Briercliffe, 2017 Dahon Curl i3

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 288 Post(s)
Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
Bike brake lights are something that gets invented over and over, mostly by people outside of the bike industry.
The latest one that I've heard of is by Cateye; the Rapid X2 Kinetic active light.
It senses deceleration of the bike and puts the bike in bright, steady mode.
No idea how much deceleration is required before it goes into brake light mode, so perhaps it won't detect light deceleration, or maybe it is activated by bumps and such??
It works great...in the manufacturer's video! Customer reviews are 'mixed'.


Last edited by tcs; 11-07-18 at 02:35 PM.
tcs is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-18, 05:41 PM
  #12  
KraneXL
🦃
 
KraneXL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: La-la Land, CA
Posts: 2,035

Bikes: Cannondale Quick SL1 Bike - 2014

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1580 Post(s)
Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
I'm all for people going out and making stuff themselves. Lots of fun and sometimes even useful!

Bike brake lights are something that gets invented over and over, mostly by people outside of the bike industry.
The latest one that I've heard of is by Cateye; the Rapid X2 Kinetic active light.
It senses deceleration of the bike and puts the bike in bright, steady mode.
The big advantage is that it doesn't require any extra wires, switches, and is independent of the bike's brakes.

No idea how much deceleration is required before it goes into brake light mode, so perhaps it won't detect light deceleration, or maybe it is activated by bumps and such??

As far as kits for others to add brake lights to their bikes, maybe that's one of those things that would be a good kickstarter project?


Steve in Peoria
My thoughts exactly. But he needs to first determine his target market (e.g. group cyclist), and of course, patent his product.
KraneXL is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-18, 05:54 PM
  #13  
Ogsarg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Hollister, CA (not the surf town)
Posts: 426

Bikes: 2009 Specialized Roubaix, early 90's Giant Iguana

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Not sure about the group riding aspect but in the case of cars, if one is close enough to me to have a brake light make a difference that would concern me quite a bit.
Ogsarg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-18, 11:20 AM
  #14  
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 36,876

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5413 Post(s)
DIY, good.

Yours is battery charge dependant, obviously......
and you have a switch in the brake lever.

Non battery dependant B&M wired dynamo tail lights have an AC pulse rate detector,
when the pulse rate of the hub alternator falls with the coming to a stop,
Then, a charged internal battery in the tail light brightens the LED..

If you had rear panniers (utilitarian cycling) you'd cover that seat stay array, up..





....

Last edited by fietsbob; 11-08-18 at 11:23 AM.
fietsbob is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-18, 01:47 PM
  #15  
Flip Flop Rider
Senior Member
 
Flip Flop Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 839

Bikes: 2010 Fuji Absolute 3.0 1994 Trek 850

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 305 Post(s)
the lights should be on all the time, not just when braking. You/we could go a pretty good distance and not hit the brakes. I like the lights though
Flip Flop Rider is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-18, 08:15 PM
  #16  
jppe
Let's do a Century
 
jppe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 7,099

Bikes: Pinarello Prince/Campy SR; Cervelo R3/Sram Red; Trek 5900/Duraace, Cervelo P2C/Duraace, Cannondle Tandem/Ultegra, Lynskey GR260 Ultegra

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 214 Post(s)
I知 more concerned about being very visible to vehicles when I知 NOT braking. I don稚 think I壇 be in the market for brake lights as my speed change just seems like it would not be significant enough to warrant brake lights. I知 not really concerned about being hit by other cyclists when riding.

What do folks interested in brake lights see as their purpose? I知 all about being seen but I知 thinking there are other ways and lights for doing that.

I admire the fella for the DIY work.

Last edited by jppe; 11-09-18 at 01:05 PM.
jppe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-18, 09:22 PM
  #17  
KraneXL
🦃
 
KraneXL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: La-la Land, CA
Posts: 2,035

Bikes: Cannondale Quick SL1 Bike - 2014

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1580 Post(s)
Brake lights aren't about a cyclist being seen, they're about warning -- of speed reduction. That's a useful safety measure under any circumstance. The real question revolves around its complexity, weight, price, etc.
KraneXL is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-18, 11:46 PM
  #18  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 10,013

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4548 Post(s)
Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Brake lights aren't about a cyclist being seen, they're about warning -- of speed reduction. That's a useful safety measure under any circumstance. The real question revolves around its complexity, weight, price, etc.
I respectfully and totally disagree.

As i said in my first post ... No one expects brake lights on a bike, so no one will know they are seeing brake lights. All they will see is more lights.

There is no Communication between rider and driver because te bicycle brake light is not in the vocabulary of either, currently.

No until Most bikes are equipped with brake lights, and most drivers are educated as to what they are .... will bicycle brake lights be effective ... but then, I would ask, would they be more effective than simply having brighter tail lights?

Bikes slow Very quickly compared to cars. By the time a driver could see my brake lights and drop his speed from 40-0, He would have run me over and gone another 40 feet down the street. After all, reaction time is half a second and stopping distances for a car from 30 mph (full panic stop) is generally about or a little over 30 feet. if I am traveling at 22 feet per second, I can stop in about a second---and about 10 or 12 feet. The driver will cover 10-15 feet before s/he even starts to decelerate, and another 15-20 feet. Cyclist is toast, if the driver and cyclist were relying on brake lights

So long as the driver knew I was riding ahead and was giving me a reasonable amount of room, and so long I was equally cognizant of the traffic around me, I don't see where brake lights would matter. if the driver didn't see me at all (despite my exceedingly bright flashing tail light, visible about half a mile a way) then Maybe the sudden tripling of intensity would shock the driver into awareness---but still might not prevent a collision. Tripling the area of tail light might provide more all-around safety and be a lot less complicated.

On another hand ... some cyclists don't run lights at all. So even if tail lights were readily available and in use, there might not be any reduction in night-time fatalities,because most of the cyclists getting hit are probably ninja salmon anyway.

No driver who is more than half aware cannot see my tail light ... and if that driver sin't giving me enough room that I can safely stop, then another tail light isn't going to help.
Maelochs is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-18, 06:21 PM
  #19  
steelbikeguy
Senior Member
 
steelbikeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 1,376
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 404 Post(s)
Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Brake lights aren't about a cyclist being seen, they're about warning -- of speed reduction. That's a useful safety measure under any circumstance. ....
that doesn't match my experiences of riding at night or in low light.

There are extremely few circumstances where I'm moving as fast as the cars. Normally, once a driver that is behind me sees me, he/she is either thinking "I can't get around, so I need to slow down", or "I'm passing".
The driver of the car knows I'm going slower, so it really doesn't matter whether I'm braking or not. The driver just wants to go around me.

But maybe I've overlooked something? If there's a common scenario where the brake light will provide useful info to a car driver, I'm happy to reconsider my position.

Steve in Peoria
steelbikeguy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-18, 06:31 PM
  #20  
steelbikeguy
Senior Member
 
steelbikeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 1,376
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 404 Post(s)
Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
My thoughts exactly. But he needs to first determine his target market (e.g. group cyclist), and of course, patent his product.
are group cyclists the intended market?
As someone who has spent a lot of time in a paceline, communication is important, but it is audible or via hand signals.
Or, if you are just in modest proximity to other riders, you usually just judge the relative distance visually, and adjust your speed appropriately. Rear end collisions between bikes are rare (in my experience), so I'm not seeing a big demand for brake lights for this purpose.

As far as patents go, they only apply to novel and non-obvious creations. Bicycle brake lights have been done many times, so a patent isn't applicable.

Steve in Peoria
steelbikeguy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-18, 06:44 PM
  #21  
Rollfast
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 6,737

Bikes: No. 7 now sitting in a box in the living room

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1166 Post(s)
Delta made an inertia brake taillight way back when...I'm getting one NOS next month so I guess I'll find out.
__________________
Mrs. Reagan also taught me to Just Say No To Shifting, and be kind to elderly single speeds.
Rollfast is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-18, 07:13 PM
  #22  
KraneXL
🦃
 
KraneXL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: La-la Land, CA
Posts: 2,035

Bikes: Cannondale Quick SL1 Bike - 2014

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1580 Post(s)
Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
are group cyclists the intended market?
That is my question. But it could certainly benefit them greatly.
As someone who has spent a lot of time in a paceline, communication is important, but it is audible or via hand signals.
Or, if you are just in modest proximity to other riders, you usually just judge the relative distance visually, and adjust your speed appropriately. Rear end collisions between bikes are rare (in my experience), so I'm not seeing a big demand for brake lights for this purpose.

As far as patents go, they only apply to novel and non-obvious creations. Bicycle brake lights have been done many times, so a patent isn't applicable.

Steve in Peoria
That's because group cyclist are aware and take precautions ahead of time. A brake light would lessen the need for that distraction.
KraneXL is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-18, 08:42 PM
  #23  
steelbikeguy
Senior Member
 
steelbikeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 1,376
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 404 Post(s)
Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
That is my question. But it could certainly benefit them greatly.

That's because group cyclist are aware and take precautions ahead of time. A brake light would lessen the need for that distraction.
It appears that you are equating <being aware and taking precautions> with <distraction>.
Maybe that's not what you meant?
In any case, cyclists need to be aware and take precautions at all times. The same should be true of everyone on the roads.

Perhaps you meant that a brake light would reduce the work load for cyclists? That might be true, but as I mentioned earlier, I don't see a problem with cyclists rear-ending each other. Maybe I'm just not riding where the problem exists.

In any case, Cateye seems to think that a market exists, since they are making that Rapid X light that senses deceleration.
Interestingly, there was a kickstarter project called "LucidBrake" that did the same thing. This was in 2015.

There is a more basic type of brake light from Sigma....
https://www.amazon.com/Sigma-Bicycle.../dp/B013VP0FEG
I've actually seen a person using one of these. it was invisible in daylight.

There's a more generic and cheap version of this same idea.....
https://us.gearbest.com/bike-lights/pp_330511.html

and there's some sort of DIY brake light on Instructables
https://www.instructables.com/id/DIY...-Your-Bicycle/

There's no shortage of bike brake lights that are available. Maybe someone needs to invent a need for them? This is more of a marketing challenge than an engineering challenge.

Steve in Peoria
steelbikeguy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-18, 05:20 AM
  #24  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 10,013

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4548 Post(s)
Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
There's no shortage of bike brake lights that are available. Maybe someone needs to invent a need for them? This is more of a marketing challenge than an engineering challenge.
(Emphasis added.)

The folks at Cateye:

"Once we sell cyclists a head- and tail light they don't buy anything else for three to five years? We need something else to sell them.

"Further, too many competitors sell head- and tail lights. What kind of novelty product would attract riders to our brand?"

Like bicycle turn signals, bike brake lights are just another way to transfer funds from the cyclist to the manufacturer without significantly affecting the cycling experience.
Maelochs is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-18, 07:24 PM
  #25  
Rollfast
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 6,737

Bikes: No. 7 now sitting in a box in the living room

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1166 Post(s)
Dude it's like $55 bucks and antique NOS from a member of another forum. I've got plenty of bread for Xmas, no prob.
__________________
Mrs. Reagan also taught me to Just Say No To Shifting, and be kind to elderly single speeds.
Rollfast is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service