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Weight training and calisthenics during the off-season

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Weight training and calisthenics during the off-season

Old 12-08-18, 12:39 PM
  #1  
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Weight training and calisthenics during the off-season

I'm assembling basic weight room equipment and I'd like to get some guidance on a 3-day-a-week indoor fitness program to maintain weight loss and muscle tone during the off-season.

Anyone doing the same?

Can anyone recommend a plan or any books that would provide guidance?
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Old 12-08-18, 05:39 PM
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I've been doing this for too long to recommend any books (I really need to check in to that though), I know my body well enough by now and can fine tune my routine as I go.

Not that I can't learn anything new, that's one reason why I'm a member here. Besides, there are others that can give you some excellent routine help much better than I.

Still, if you just want to tone that shouldn't be too hard. I'd say stick to around 65% max. That should allow you to achieve your goal.

In any event, my only suggestion are as follows:

1) Have a clear achievable goal.
2) Take complete body measurements and if at all possible, photos as well.
3) Have a start and end date.
4) Avoid weighing yourself too often, e.g. every day. But when you do, use the same scale and always do so at the same time.
5) If you intend to lose weight tell others. They will help you stay on course.
6) Construct a good diet plan -- this is where the books can help -- and stick to it.
7) You can always keep a log and/or report back here periodically. We will be watching.

For the record, I go to the gym 4 times/week and do aerobics on the other two day. I also give myself a cheat day once a week (or as needed) to indulge but only a single food, and only one serving.

I also fast daily @16/8, and 24hrs. once per month. On some good fast days the hunger is more tame, like today, and I will go to 36hrs.

Last edited by KraneXL; 12-09-18 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 12-08-18, 06:38 PM
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I do the following... MWF 3 groups of workouts and within each group I do 4 sets of three different types of exercise. EX: Group 1, is 4 sets consisting of a rotation of 12 reps - chest, then 12 reps- leg press and calf press, then 12 reps of lats/back. Group 2 is 4 sets of the following, shoulder press, thigh press and leg curl, and then pecs again 12 reps of each. the third group is 4 sets of biceps, inner thigh/ outer thigh and triceps each set is made up of 12 reps. I add weight after each rep.


Then I do maybe 20 minutes of treadmill or elliptical


On Tues and thurs, its cardio... I will do 35 minutes treadmill or elliptical and then 10 minutes of stair master. For me i can do 50 floors in @ 10 minutes. Sat and Sunday is catch up day for M-F days that I miss. I generally get 5 workouts in per week.
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Old 12-08-18, 06:50 PM
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A few years ago I wanted to add flexibility and strength training into my winter routine. I asked a personal trainer I knew for a recommendation, and she suggested a total gym. Found a refurbished one for a little under $400 so I bought it. I try to use it 3 times a week and think it's pretty good. I do notice that I feel much better on the bike in the spring than when I used to just ride rollers over the winter. A few weeks ago I picked up a used set of dumbbells and a bench and have been doing this 3 day total body workout. Either one of those options would be good for what it sounds like you are trying to do. I try to do something every day, so on the days I'm not strength training I like to either ride rollers or take an online yoga class. I usually miss a day or two every week for one reason or another, but every day is the goal. I find that watching what I eat is more important than exercise for keeping weight off over the winter.
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Old 12-09-18, 04:01 AM
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I do full body range of motion, stretching and whatever exercises can be done with minimal equipment: pushups, lunges, etc. Basically all the same stuff we did training for amateur boxing and in boot camp. Shadow boxing is great for upper body range of motion -- arms, shoulders, entire back. And it can be a pretty good aerobic workout done vigorously enough. But I don't hit the bags anymore -- too much wrist and joint damage now.

I've added jugs filled with water to use for some kettlebell type exercises, but I don't do any of the more extreme stuff, flipping and changing directions. Some recommended kettlebell exercises look like a sure route to joint damage.

I might add a pullup bar now that my shoulder injury seems to be healing. For most of this year since the May injury I couldn't handle any weight or stress, but the shoulder has improved quite a bit since mid-September.

And lots of time on the indoor trainer. Usually watching TV or movies, not training videos. I watch 30-45 minute TV shows for interval training sessions (with a smartphone app as the timer), and movies for keeping the zone 2-3 base going. Really helped over the summer when I couldn't handle enough pressure on the injured shoulder for the road bike outdoors. But when I was able to ride again my average speed was the same, lungs and legs still good. Just took some time to recover the sense of balance and bike handling.
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Old 12-09-18, 06:23 AM
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A few years ago, I dumped my heavy weights and rack in favor of lightening the load on my joints and mixing things up a bit. Since then, we've acquired (and sporadically use) a treadmill, an ellliptical, a total gym knock off, a bull worker, assorted hula hoops, a bench and assorted dumbbells up to 40lbs, a pull-up/dip rack, a spin bike, a heavy bag and a speed bag. Instructionally, I have a 30 yr old BUDS workout sheet, a P90X cd set, and assorted books on martial arts, running, weight lifting and endurance.

^^^^^All of that to get to the thing I use the most (at 62yo)---a $70 a month YMCA membership with my spouse. I use the weight machines three times a week minimum, mixing up routines (like some, I've been doing this for years--but, should put together a cogent strategy)...she uses the weight machines and pool, and has a trainer once a week to keep her motivated. My best recommendation is to consider a Y membership for a year, use a trainer to get a routine put together and only then purchase the minimum gear to support it. You may find the social aspect of the Y to be a plus, I do. And my hunting clothes look nice hanging on all our gym gear on the porch. Cheers!
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Old 12-10-18, 07:37 PM
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I started with Friel about 20 years ago, in my 50s. I've also used Brzycki - A practical Approach to Strength Training - and Gethin - Body by Design. Except for Friel there's not too much out there which fits my needs, which are about the same as the OP's or any older rider who wants to keep riding hard. And skiing and running, hiking, backpacking, etc., etc. IOW stay young. With a hoody and mask, I fool myself into thinking no one would know how old I am. That's the idea, anyway.

In the Army, I used the gym, ran, and skied a lot. Funniest thing, every Army base has a gym. In '79 my wife and I joined our first gym to prepare for a season fishing in Alaska. That got us hooked as it were, and we've been gym members ever since. It'd be tough to duplicate a gym at home. A gym has: a real squat rack with safety bars and plates from 2.5 to 45 and plenty of them, dumbbell pairs every 5 lbs from 5 to 150+ (I only need 10-60 but I use all of those), kettlebells from 20-50 (for me), padded plain benches, bench press and incline bench press, plus padded benches with variable angle, a back machine, leg extension machine, Roman chair, assisted chin and dip machine, leg sled, lat pulldown machine, horizontal row machine, equipment for cable triceps and biceps work, and probably stuff I've forgotten to list. My wife and I use all of this stuff every week. And it's important to do many different exercises, because one really needs to work every muscle in the body in a progressive manner to avoid injury and retain freedom of movement. And the real issue then becomes that we only rest 1 minute between sets/exercises because that's how you build endurance, get the job done quickly, and avoid injury. Too long between lifts is a big mistake IMO. So you don't have time to convert one machine into another, add or subtract dumbbell plates. etc.

So that's my home gym opinion: it'll be cheaper and safer and you'll get better results with a gym membership. Plus you'll run into many people who know a lot more about strength work than any of us here. I've learned a tremendous amount from being in gyms all these years, from the Army until now. And I'm still learning. I tend to stay away from youtube content because it's so variable. If you do watch that stuff, watch women. They're more reliable and are more likely to be demoing stuff that works for cyclists. I mostly use exrx.net for strength training information. And not least - one injury can ruin your whole season and we don't have that many of them left.

And yeah, I have opinions on program, too. I use 2-day/week programs. More than that cuts into my aerobic work and that's not good at all. With 2 days/week, you'll make progress. With 1 day/week you can hold onto strength in the lifts you can do in that one day. So I do 2/week until April 1, then 1 day/week for the summer. I usually take August and September off from real training and just have fun, then start all over again at the beginning in October.

The routines I've developed, complete with PDF downloads for all the workouts can be found scattered throughout this thread: Introduction to strength training for the endurance athlete

Some decent theory can be found here:
https://www.t-nation.com/training/ma...ent-training-1
https://www.t-nation.com/training/ma...ent-training-2
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Old 12-10-18, 08:03 PM
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When is this "off season?" Summer vacation?
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Old 12-11-18, 12:14 PM
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Iíve been using StrongLifts 5x5 when it doesnít get above freezing (like right now!). If it gets above 36į and the wind isnít too bad, Iíll throw my leg over the bike and put 25 miles on.

Theres an app that makes keeping track of the workout easy.
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Old 12-13-18, 01:16 PM
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Rule #1 . Don't over-train. It's an easy habit to get into. Rest/Recovery is as important at the workout itself. Velominati Rule #5 does NOT apply in this case.

Rule #2 . See Rule #1 .

Now that being said, I work out at a Nautilus Cafe.
Currently, my routine is such:
Alternating between the Nautilus lower back, and the MedX lower back (after Art Jones sold Nautilus, he started MedX. Same concept, with some minor changes) There is a different feel to each machine, working the muscle group slightly differently. On the MedX, I can do a dozen or so reps at 242lbs, on the Naulilus machine, I'm at about 95lbs.
leg extensions
leg curls
overhead pulldowns
bicep curls
overhead tricep extensions
ab crunches
arm crosses (you can also "row" on this machine)
neck flexion
squats (I do a "bicycling squat" where both legs are holding 75 lbs, and each leg is working against the other in a motion similar to riding a bike. You go for time here, not weight. Think climbing a 10% grade while 75lbs works back against you)

They also have a hip adduction/abduction machine, a lateral raise machine, an overhead pull-over machine, and a calf machine. We (I) rotate on and off different machines every 8 weeks.

Rule #3 . If you can't to 8 reps, it's too much weight.
Rule #4 . Negatives (letting it back down) are more productive. SLOWLY. The trick is to count to five. You should say "five" as the stack comes to rest
Rule #5 If you can do 11-15 reps, add more weight.

The lower back exercises have helped with the numbness issue in my arms & hands, as I can tighten up my core and take some of the pressure off the wrists and shoulders.
The squat machine is what's giving me endurance, and I notice I ride on average, one higher gear than I did a year ago. (I used to use 3-4-5 primarily, now it's 4-5-6)
I have largely dispensed with the use of the small chain ring on the crank. Enough so, on a build I'm planning, I'm thinking a 1x driveline.

Rule #6 . Get a trainer that knows what he's doing. Not some one that sits there and counts your reps. The guy I work out with is a practicing sports massage the******, athlete himself (speed skater and cyclocross racer. I train like he trains), and he writes some of the guidelines/best practices. In other words, he knows what he's doing. Plus, we've literally been friends since we were five years old. We're 56 now.

#hangaroundagymnasium

-edit to add..
It's helped in my job performance, too.
an 8-ply truck tire on an aluminum rim can tip the scale at over 100lbs.
I'm capable of three our four sets of 4 a day now, vs the "1 and done" I was at this time last year..
(So who do you think gets to mount all the tires on those lifted Ram 3500 diesels?)

Last edited by JLDickmon; 12-13-18 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 12-13-18, 01:26 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
I started with Friel about 20 years ago, in my 50s. I've also used Brzycki - A practical Approach to Strength Training - and Gethin - Body by Design. Except for Friel there's not too much out there which fits my needs, which are about the same as the OP's or any older rider who wants to keep riding hard. And skiing and running, hiking, backpacking, etc., etc. IOW stay young. With a hoody and mask, I fool myself into thinking no one would know how old I am. That's the idea, anyway.

In the Army, I used the gym, ran, and skied a lot. Funniest thing, every Army base has a gym. In '79 my wife and I joined our first gym to prepare for a season fishing in Alaska. That got us hooked as it were, and we've been gym members ever since. It'd be tough to duplicate a gym at home. A gym has: a real squat rack with safety bars and plates from 2.5 to 45 and plenty of them, dumbbell pairs every 5 lbs from 5 to 150+ (I only need 10-60 but I use all of those), kettlebells from 20-50 (for me), padded plain benches, bench press and incline bench press, plus padded benches with variable angle, a back machine, leg extension machine, Roman chair, assisted chin and dip machine, leg sled, lat pulldown machine, horizontal row machine, equipment for cable triceps and biceps work, and probably stuff I've forgotten to list. My wife and I use all of this stuff every week. And it's important to do many different exercises, because one really needs to work every muscle in the body in a progressive manner to avoid injury and retain freedom of movement. And the real issue then becomes that we only rest 1 minute between sets/exercises because that's how you build endurance, get the job done quickly, and avoid injury. Too long between lifts is a big mistake IMO. So you don't have time to convert one machine into another, add or subtract dumbbell plates. etc.

So that's my home gym opinion: it'll be cheaper and safer and you'll get better results with a gym membership. Plus you'll run into many people who know a lot more about strength work than any of us here. I've learned a tremendous amount from being in gyms all these years, from the Army until now. And I'm still learning. I tend to stay away from youtube content because it's so variable. If you do watch that stuff, watch women. They're more reliable and are more likely to be demoing stuff that works for cyclists. I mostly use exrx.net for strength training information. And not least - one injury can ruin your whole season and we don't have that many of them left.

And yeah, I have opinions on program, too. I use 2-day/week programs. More than that cuts into my aerobic work and that's not good at all. With 2 days/week, you'll make progress. With 1 day/week you can hold onto strength in the lifts you can do in that one day. So I do 2/week until April 1, then 1 day/week for the summer. I usually take August and September off from real training and just have fun, then start all over again at the beginning in October.

The routines I've developed, complete with PDF downloads for all the workouts can be found scattered throughout this thread: Introduction to strength training for the endurance athlete

Some decent theory can be found here:
https://www.t-nation.com/training/ma...ent-training-1
https://www.t-nation.com/training/ma...ent-training-2
Maybe? But it actually depends more on your goal and at what level you're starting from.
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Old 12-13-18, 09:01 PM
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In this off-season, I've been using the app "Home Workout". It's all body-weight exercises, though I do augment it some with a pull-up bar and a couple of dumbbells. I'm not trying to bulk up, so heavier weights are not a priority. But trust me - body weight exercises have gotten me plenty sore enough.
I prefer working out at home, as it's less crowded, I can jump around from activity to activity quickly, and I can get in a really good workout in the same time it would take me to drive to and from a gym. That, and it's a heck of a lot cheaper too.
I can get in 3 or so good strength days a week during the winter, approx 1 hr/session. However, I don't carry it over the summer - I find the additional training fatigue negatively impacts cycling training volume & ability.
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Old 12-15-18, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Maybe? But it actually depends more on your goal and at what level you're starting from.
Very true. I don't really know what's best for a cyclist. Studies show that 3-5 minutes rest between sets is the sweet spot for increasing strength and muscle growth. As has been frequently pointed out, cycling doesn't take a whole lot of strength. I've countered by saying yes, but it's helpful to have full fiber recruitment in the muscles you have. This latter is what I've been trying to achieve.at the gym. Thus my guess is that for my purposes, and as far as cycling strength goes, it doesn't make much difference. If so, then do what might result in the least injuries, which of course would be the shorter rest and lower weights. There's also an aerobic component to weight work, or perhaps one should say an anaerobic and recovery component. I like to start the next set when my HR drops down to ~100, which is frequently in about 1 minute, which is I think helpful for bike training.
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Old 12-15-18, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Very true. I don't really know what's best for a cyclist. Studies show that 3-5 minutes rest between sets is the sweet spot for increasing strength and muscle growth. As has been frequently pointed out, cycling doesn't take a whole lot of strength. I've countered by saying yes, but it's helpful to have full fiber recruitment in the muscles you have. This latter is what I've been trying to achieve.at the gym. Thus my guess is that for my purposes, and as far as cycling strength goes, it doesn't make much difference. If so, then do what might result in the least injuries, which of course would be the shorter rest and lower weights. There's also an aerobic component to weight work, or perhaps one should say an anaerobic and recovery component. I like to start the next set when my HR drops down to ~100, which is frequently in about 1 minute, which is I think helpful for bike training.
As do I, as often as possible. I've tried both and each can be effective. For me, a longer rest period is more preferred since the extra recovery time allows me to recover and therefore push more weight.

I'm tall and slim and for my body type it works better since I can maintain that state over a much longer period, than someone shorter and stocky.

I do periodically switch to the alternate shorter one minute rest periods for a limited time to reap those benefits and keep my body guessing. However, everything has to be in sync since it takes an awful lot of mental focus and determination to push through those highly intense workouts.
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Old 12-16-18, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
As do I, as often as possible. I've tried both and each can be effective. For me, a longer rest period is more preferred since the extra recovery time allows me to recover and therefore push more weight.

I'm tall and slim and for my body type it works better since I can maintain that state over a much longer period, than someone shorter and stocky.

I do periodically switch to the alternate shorter one minute rest periods for a limited time to reap those benefits and keep my body guessing. However, everything has to be in sync since it takes an awful lot of mental focus and determination to push through those highly intense workouts.
Do you notice any difference in DOMS between protocols?
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Old 12-16-18, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Do you notice any difference in DOMS between protocols?
Absolutely. In fact, I just returned to weight training a couple days ago after a two week layoff. I try to think of it as a good thing since it gives me an idea of my limit and potential (strength, healing rate, etc.), and because it lets me know exactly what muscles were effected by my routine.
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Old 12-17-18, 09:31 AM
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Ever since I switched to a 4-day/week job, I have been doing weight training, mostly arms and torso, three mornings/week at the local YMCA. I took up weights after a Colles fracture of the radius, because cycling does nothing for upper body bone or muscle mass and strength. I supplement the usual weighted arm, shoulder, and trunk exercises (shoulder press, lat pull, biceps curl, leg lifts, chest press, triceps extension, etc.) with patella-stabilizing weighted knee extensions (just the last 15 degrees to straight) and toe raises (for bilateral Achilles issues). For me, this is a year-round regime, irrespective of how much cycling I do in any given week. (Where I live, in weather-wimp north coastal San Diego County, there is no real "off season" for any outdoor sport.) With the amount of fast walking I do, I don't worry about getting enough weight-bearing exercise in the legs and hips. If all of my aerobic activity were cycling, this would be a potential issue.
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Old 12-17-18, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by John E View Post
Ever since I switched to a 4-day/week job, I have been doing weight training, mostly arms and torso, three mornings/week at the local YMCA. I took up weights after a Colles fracture of the radius, because cycling does nothing for upper body bone or muscle mass and strength. I supplement the usual weighted arm, shoulder, and trunk exercises (shoulder press, lat pull, biceps curl, leg lifts, chest press, triceps extension, etc.) with patella-stabilizing weighted knee extensions (just the last 15 degrees to straight) and toe raises (for bilateral Achilles issues). For me, this is a year-round regime, irrespective of how much cycling I do in any given week. (Where I live, in weather-wimp north coastal San Diego County, there is no real "off season" for any outdoor sport.) With the amount of fast walking I do, I don't worry about getting enough weight-bearing exercise in the legs and hips. If all of my aerobic activity were cycling, this would be a potential issue.
Its not enough. Walking, not matter the distance, doesn't significantly tax your fast-twitch leg muscles. I do mostly leg extensions and machines curls with just a bit of the leg press. My body just doesn't do squats well at my current physical condition.
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Old 12-21-18, 08:00 PM
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This is a good one. My wife is a hot shot PT who poo poos a lot of cyclist approaches but she agrees that the info here is sound. I'm in California but if I couldn't ride for a season, I'd ski, or snow shoe or something to burn calories because I doubt I could eat less.
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Old 12-21-18, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Classtime View Post

This is a good one. My wife is a hot shot PT who poo poos a lot of cyclist approaches but she agrees that the info here is sound. I'm in California but if I couldn't ride for a season,
Any highlights?
I'd ski, or snow shoe or something to burn calories because I doubt I could eat less.
You sound like my former roommate when I asked him if he wanted to join me in fasting. His response was, "I like to eat too much." Anybody, can fast, aou just need to practice to get better.
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Old 12-24-18, 04:39 AM
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We have weights etc in the basement exercise area. I use them year round on my rest days from the bike. Weights are upper body and core specifically, helps me keep weight down and helps with longer rides. For me, there is no off months during the year, I use the trainer when the weather is bad. Taking extended time off the bike as you get older can become fitness you may never be able to regain.
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Old 12-25-18, 11:10 AM
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I have been weight training in gyms consistently since 1974. I have not found home gyms to be very effective for me. I like the energy of a gym and the assistance that is available if I need it. I would suggest getting a pass for a couple of days or a week at a high end gym that has personal trainers and observe what they do with their clients. Strength training has evolved over the years and the focus today is more about functional strength than body building per se. I do not see personal trainers running their clients through a set of machines for a workout.

They use a combination of kettlebells, olympic weights, free weights, rubber bands, sleds, ropes and pulleys. If I observe something I want to try, my gym has a trainer available to show me how to do it and check my form.

I was doing box jumps at my gym and an old guy asks me if I was doing them for balance. No, I was doing them for explosive leg strength and to reduce my leg muscle relaxation time. He wanted to do them and I suggested he talk with a trainer.

Even if I omitted the personal trainers, other amenities and staff, it would cost me a fortune to set up a gym with all the same equipment I use at my gym including plyo safe boxes, olympic weight set, racks, dumbells, benches, kettlebells, bosa balls, rubber bands, pulley machines, leg press machines and etc etc. And the space required would be immense. And then, I am by myself. YMMV.
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Old 12-25-18, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
I have been weight training in gyms consistently since 1974. I have not found home gyms to be very effective for me. I like the energy of a gym and the assistance that is available if I need it. I would suggest getting a pass for a couple of days or a week at a high end gym that has personal trainers and observe what they do with their clients. Strength training has evolved over the years and the focus today is more about functional strength than body building per se. I do not see personal trainers running their clients through a set of machines for a workout.

They use a combination of kettlebells, olympic weights, free weights, rubber bands, sleds, ropes and pulleys. If I observe something I want to try, my gym has a trainer available to show me how to do it and check my form.

I was doing box jumps at my gym and an old guy asks me if I was doing them for balance. No, I was doing them for explosive leg strength and to reduce my leg muscle relaxation time. He wanted to do them and I suggested he talk with a trainer.

Even if I omitted the personal trainers, other amenities and staff, it would cost me a fortune to set up a gym with all the same equipment I use at my gym including plyo safe boxes, olympic weight set, racks, dumbells, benches, kettlebells, bosa balls, rubber bands, pulley machines, leg press machines and etc etc. And the space required would be immense. And then, I am by myself. YMMV.
There are advantages and disadvantages either side. I'm sure you've had those day when you just don't feel like leaving the house? With a home gym you can walk downstairs or into the next room in your skivvies and workout as long as you want. You also have complete and unlimited control of your environment with no interlopers hogging the weights or interrupting your sets.

That said, there's a lot to be gained from a commercial gym. First and foremost, there's zero care about the setup, maintenance, and/or upkeep of the equipment. And speaking of equipment, its always going to be of commercial grade so outgrowing your equipment is an unlikely possibility.

There's also safety in numbers, as you will never (wisely) approach your maximum alone in a home gym. There's other advantages and disadvantages to speak of, but suffice it to say that unless you're multimillionaire, its unlikely you'll ever create a home gym that can rival or even come close to the machines, equipment and space you get at a commercial gym. That's why I choose the latter every time.
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Old 12-25-18, 05:04 PM
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Motivation has never been a problem for me. I just got back from the gym today. Great workout.

I belong to Equinox and equipment availability or sharing, if required, is not a problem - we have a lot of equipment and square footage of workout area. I like the fact that I have to go to a place and get dressed in an outfit. It is much like when I ran the development company and I got suited up and drove to work or got on an airplane - game on. One knows where one is and why one is there. Today, the other members were killing it - lots of energy.

I had a sort of BS home gym a number of years back and it did not get much use - too boring. I went to the regular gym.

I have all access membership with Equinox and I workout locally as well as in SF, Newport Beach, LA, NYC and etc. One cannot have gyms in multiple cities - realistically.

However, the question was what to put into a home gym. So I think the best way to decide what to have at home is to see what the guys who run a high end gym use and copy what one can.
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Old 12-28-18, 08:40 AM
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can't work-out at home. have to be around other ppl doing the same things. had an amazing year 2009-10 with cycling, weight training, running & swimming. no injuries

barely hanging on right now, tho w/ occasional cycling, weight training & a physical 2nd job. anything is better than nothing
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