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Cue sheets

Old 03-14-20, 09:21 PM
  #1  
FloridaDave
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Cue sheets

I'll ask the seniors here this really basic quesition, because you all might have the right experience...

I'm looking at an organized ride late next month and when I looked at the route, it's a complicated route with a lot of turns over the 50 miles. So of course there is a cue sheet, and it's pretty lengthy. I guess any organized rides I rode were easy to navigate, or I rode with someone who had a clue, or there were people on the course directing you. I've never used a cue sheet.

This particular ride provides cue sheet downloads to Ride with GPS, but frankly I don't want to mess with that. With turns as often as every tenth of a mile, I'd need my phone out and visible, mounted on my handlebar somehow, not tucked in my jersey pocket. And over the course of a 3+ hour ride I'd need a battery life extender for my phone.

I think I want to go low-tech with this ride. For those of you who've used cue sheets before, I assume you print the thing, magically fold it somehow, then how do you keep it available for frequent usage?

Thanks for your help.
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Old 03-15-20, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by FloridaDave View Post
I'll ask the seniors here this really basic quesition, because you all might have the right experience...

I'm looking at an organized ride late next month and when I looked at the route, it's a complicated route with a lot of turns over the 50 miles. So of course there is a cue sheet, and it's pretty lengthy. I guess any organized rides I rode were easy to navigate, or I rode with someone who had a clue, or there were people on the course directing you. I've never used a cue sheet.

This particular ride provides cue sheet downloads to Ride with GPS, but frankly I don't want to mess with that. With turns as often as every tenth of a mile, I'd need my phone out and visible, mounted on my handlebar somehow, not tucked in my jersey pocket. And over the course of a 3+ hour ride I'd need a battery life extender for my phone.

I think I want to go low-tech with this ride. For those of you who've used cue sheets before, I assume you print the thing, magically fold it somehow, then how do you keep it available for frequent usage?

Thanks for your help.
I've used both cue sheets and RWGPS. On the Trans Am race, I used both at the same time. I have a simple homemade mount on my aerobars that I could snap of pic of. But I would encourage you to use the RWGPS and it's turn my turn instructions. Just need an earbud or such in one ear. If you download the maps before you ride and keep your phone from getting cold (like 40 degrees F and under), your phone should have plenty of charge. If you don't download them, it might be a different story. I'll snap a pic of my cue sheet contraption in a few hours and post it. If you don't have aerobars, I'm sure I've seen some other ways to mount them, as my Randonneur friends all use the cue sheets. And they mostly don't use the aeros.
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Old 03-15-20, 09:33 AM
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I recommend everything @gif4445 said .... plus ...

I would go to RWGPS and plot the route. The cue sheet mnight be endless instructions, but the route might make perfect sense once you see it laid out on a map. (Like a series of T intersections where you always head west or north, for instance .... ) Also, I have used the Google maps feature of RWGPS to look at routes. This helps because you can sometimes see that the turn is really because the road obviously goes one way and the other way is a lane or a dirt road or a dead end. Also, I can check out landmarks and such. it can be a big relief to see that store sign you recall from Google maps ....

I bought some cheap phone-holders a while back and yes .... i print cue sheets at a certain size, and fold then to fit, but it still helps to remember some landmarks.
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Old 03-15-20, 10:11 AM
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If the route is on RWGPS, maybe just download the app, stick a cheap phone mount on the bar and get an inexpensive stick battery to keep the phone powered.
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Old 03-15-20, 10:21 AM
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Print, cut off the excess, sometimes laminate w/ packing tape, fold,

clip to bars w/ binder clips/rubber bands,

try to get on the wheel of someone who knows the route.
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Old 03-15-20, 10:35 AM
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I've driven and rode routes ahead of the event just to get familiar with them. I got frustrated with routes on my GPS early on and just quit using it for routes and don't want a mapping GPS on my bike.. My son has not, and on one ride with the official route loaded into his GPS it gave a wrong turn. I don't know if this was due to signal loss, interference or map error. He wasn't the only one that got it. Luckily since we'd both ridden the course in car and bike prior, we knew it was an error. There were others that didn't recognize it as an error and were happily cycling off that way or returning after realizing the error. Some didn't and re-joined the group at a intersection miles down the route.

So as for printed cue sheets, be careful how you get them. If the route has undetected errors then the cue sheets may well be wrong too. Perhaps the map they were made with doesn't match the map they were imported to.

So exercising you mind by studying the map and anything else to familiarize yourself with the course/route is a plus.
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Old 03-15-20, 06:13 PM
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Years ago, during my road running days, I had a guy ask me before a race if I knew the course. I told him it never occurred to me that I wouldn't be able to simply look up and follow the other runners.

The same has proven to be true for me on organized bike rides provided there are a reasonable number of participants. My back up plan is to stick a copy of the route instructions in a jersey pocket.
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Old 03-15-20, 06:34 PM
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Why haven't you thought of painting the pavement like we do for the Hilly Hundred. Seems to work quite nicely. Smiles, MH
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Old 03-17-20, 07:53 AM
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In my brief Ranoneuring career, I downloaded the cue sheet and through trial and error printed it, cut it into sandwhich bag sized pieces, put them in order in the bag, and clipped the bag to my cables on the handle bars. When I got to the bottom of the page, I would stop and remove that page. I also printed them large enough to read without putting on my reading glasses.
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Old 03-17-20, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk View Post
Why haven't you thought of painting the pavement like we do for the Hilly Hundred. Seems to work quite nicely. Smiles, MH
Yes, indeed! On most CIBA rides, the Dan Henry's are adequate for following the route. But, I understand that most clubs don't mark routes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Henry
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Old 03-17-20, 08:45 AM
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I use a small bar-map case to hold the cue sheets. Small or Large.

Sometimes I cover the cue sheets in clear packing tape if it's going to rain so the print doesn't run and it's easier to pull them out of the case when they're wet.

I assume a human created and tested the cue sheet? Having made and edited a few cue sheets, I would never rely on the cue sheet export from RWGS for navigation.
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Old 03-17-20, 07:08 PM
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What I do sounds complicated, and it is, at least the first time you do it, but it works. I have a Garmin for navigation, but my rando background tells me that gadgets fail, so bring a backup. So this is what I do to create my own cue sheets:

1) Go to the RidewithGPS link and bring up the route.
2) Copy the route to your account and select Edit. Get rid of the Tip of the Day, so you can see the whole list of cues. If you don't have an account, create one. You'll like having it.
3) Click on each cue in turn. If you want to leave it as is, do so. Otherwise either delete it or modify as you like. Usually many, many cues are unneeded. When you are done editing, Save, renaming it to avoid confusion. You must rename it..
4) At the top where it says More, pull down the menu and select View in Classic Mode.
5) In Classic Mode, select Export at the top right. Scroll down until you see Cue Sheet CSV File. Click on that. That will download the list of cues.
6) Find the downloaded file and open it in your spreadsheet. Delete all columns except for the first 3. Change the title of the distance column to Total, and the number format in that column to 1 decimal place, not two.
7) Copy what's left and paste it into your word processor. It should paste as a table. From there, massage this table as you like with page format (I use 1/4 page), border, font and size, etc.
8) Put it in your cue sheet holder.
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Old 03-17-20, 07:52 PM
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In my randonneuring career I've tried a lot of things.

Back in my cue sheet days I used several techniques. The most basic is to obtain or print the cue sheet on regular size paper, then as you say magically fold it up to make as small as practical whilst showing a reasonable distance in cues. Fold it down to where you can see turns and mileage - perhaps road names - nothing else and certainly no margins. Depending on weather/speed/road bumpiness you can wedge it between cable housing and frame, stow in a jacket pocket, clip to something, or put in a zip-loc and stow in a jersey pocket or tucked in the leg of your shorts. A more advanced version is to print the cue sheet to specific size, futzing around with margins and page lengths until you can print it multiple pages just the right size to fit in your location of choice. In this mode I'd staple one corner together and rip off sheets as the ride progressed - packing the trash in a jersey pocket of course. The final iteration involved a clear passport-sized holder attached to a lanyard around my neck, with the properly sized pages stacked in order to be used and discarded as the miles went by. With the sheets upside-down in the holder, you simply raise it up in front of your face and it's right side up. The huge down-side of these custom printed techniques is when you arrive at the start happily ready to go, and the ride leader hands out updated cue sheets for the detour.

There are of course people who cleverly have handlebar bags with plastic cue sheet holders on top, rendering all the above completely ridiculous.

I finally went to GPS about four years ago, but I don't use turn-by-turn directions. I have a simple GPS that just shows a line on the screen and a dot (me). I keep the dot on the line. For this I have an old Garmin 200, and a newer Garmin eTrex 20x. Of course I always have a printed cue sheet stowed somewhere for when things go south with the technology.

As for the phone, I keep it stowed in something water proof, charged, and turned off. If I need a phone, I really need a phone.
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Old 03-18-20, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
I use a small bar-map case to hold the cue sheets. Small or Large.

Sometimes I cover the cue sheets in clear packing tape if it's going to rain so the print doesn't run and it's easier to pull them out of the case when they're wet.

I assume a human created and tested the cue sheet? Having made and edited a few cue sheets, I would never rely on the cue sheet export from RWGS for navigation.
That latter is the reason I go through each cue, each turn, etc., to make sure it has a cue, that the cue is correct, and that unneeded cues are deleted. I never use a cue sheet without doing basic diligence.
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Old 03-22-20, 05:54 PM
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All of the rides I do post the cue sheets. I copy them at the smallest size I can read easily, cut them into reasonable size pieces and laminate them.
I use these to hold them on the bike.
https://www.perennialcycle.com/cue-c...SABEgJvBvD_BwE

I have several times come upon someone riding back and forth, saying his GPS was telling him to turn into a cornfield or a forest.
I have seen people with soggy cue sheets that can no longer be read.

When (if) the battery in my cell phone dies, I can still find my way.
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Old 03-22-20, 07:32 PM
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I was my clubís ride coordinator for two years. We use paper cue sheets, they are in Excel and designed to fit on 1/2 of standard 8-1/2 x 11 paper vertically. Folds up easily to keep clipped to the handlebar and is not too wide to be in the way when riding. The little clips that many companies use to have employees clip their ID badge/card to their shirts work perfectly on the handlebar or stem (since the clip swivels). Zip tie it or find a narrow Velcro strap to hold it.

depending on the font you use a 4-1/4 x 11 sheet can hold a lot of turns, it can be double sided too. We donít really deal with rain in SoCal, so waterproofing is not something we deal with.
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Old 03-22-20, 07:36 PM
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The simplest is to put the cue sheet in a plastic bag and clip it to the bars.

https://www.modernbike.com/product-2...0aAvd1EALw_wcB
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Old 03-23-20, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by JanMM View Post
Yes, indeed! On most CIBA rides, the Dan Henry's are adequate for following the route. But, I understand that most clubs don't mark routes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Henry
Come communities frown on allowing Dan Henrys to be painted on the pavement. Also, if you mark all your routes with DHs, pretty soon all the intersections have them and you can't tell which ones are for your route. Better to use cue sheets. Most of our club rides use them. If I need to make my own, it's simple:
L - Ferb St
R - Perry St
R - Phineas Rd

If you want you can add a third column showing cumulative miles at the turn. A single column is easy to fold around so you can see the next half-dozen turns. Hold it to the bars with:

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Old 03-23-20, 02:12 PM
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I’ve seen many organized rides now using fiberboard sign boards with arrows, zip tied to telephone poles or stakes in the ground, replacing paint on pavement. Seems to work well, easy to remove when the rides over.
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Old 03-23-20, 02:37 PM
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When I (rarely) send out ridewithgps cue sheets, I extensively edit them. (A couple of the riders I ride with refuse to use GPS, so I sometimes fix up a cue for them.)

Drop the "straight ahead" entries where just the name changed.
Combine the "left, then quick right" into one entry.
Shorten the really long names.
I bolded or starred the tricky turns, often a small side road where the route had been on the main road for a long time. Those are easy to miss.

I added "Tee" to the turns where the road dead ends in a "T" shape. Then there's no need to watch the street signs, just ride until the road ends.
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Old 03-24-20, 03:45 AM
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3x5 cards inside a small ziplock bag taped to the stem. Open the bag and rotate the cards as necessary.
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Old 03-24-20, 07:04 AM
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On organized rides I've been on I've seen a number of bicyclists with the older Shimano shift cables that come out the side of the Brifter, clip their cue-sheets to those cables.

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Old 03-24-20, 04:37 PM
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Thanks everyone for great ideas and feedback. Of course the ride I was looking at that needed cue sheets has been postponed due to coronavirus. So I have plenty of time to take your ideas and implement them, see what works for me.

As many have recommended, I will take a good look at RWGPS. I have it on my phone but haven't really used it. Some combo of GPS and printed/laminated cards will be a good approach.

Thanks. Dave
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Old 03-24-20, 06:35 PM
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I rode the first running of the Temecula Century in Southern CA. The organizer drew the routes using RWGPS, then just copied the cue sheets onto the web site. I proofed the cue sheets and found numerous errors. I use that site, and know from experience to not just trust the output. I always zoom in and make sure I am not falling victim to 'noise.' I remember hearing some riders wound up eighty miles from the start point and had to be rescued.

The moral is that I never trust cue sheets from others. Once I am satisfied the map is correct, I copy the cue sheet into a spread sheet for editing. I can often get a sixty mile ride onto less than ten lines.
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Old 03-24-20, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by CommuteCommando View Post
I rode the first running of the Temecula Century in Southern CA. The organizer drew the routes using RWGPS, then just copied the cue sheets onto the web site. I proofed the cue sheets and found numerous errors. I use that site, and know from experience to not just trust the output. I always zoom in and make sure I am not falling victim to 'noise.' I remember hearing some riders wound up eighty miles from the start point and had to be rescued.

The moral is that I never trust cue sheets from others. Once I am satisfied the map is correct, I copy the cue sheet into a spread sheet for editing. I can often get a sixty mile ride onto less than ten lines.
Quite so. One must copy the published route into one's own account, usually renaming and saving it as Private, before editing.
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