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Brakes - where do you stand?

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Brakes - where do you stand?

Old 09-18-20, 08:47 PM
  #126  
GeneO 
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
It's really a no brainer once you use hydraulic disc brakes.

^This Especially on trails. For road, unless you are a pro tour rider and you might get a second or two in certain circumstances, there is no advantage in rim brakes IMHO. The control with disc is so much better IME.
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Old 09-28-20, 08:50 AM
  #127  
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I have been riding bikes seriously for 55 years, yes, Im REALLY old lol!!!! I have bikes, many bikes. I have owned every style/make of bike you can think of. Rode cam brakes, V brakes, rim, disk, coaster and more I have forgotten. Im so old I forget I hjave forgotten lol!!!! anyway, seriously. I like disc brakes functionally, but asthetically, man they are ugly to the core. Nothing, NOTHING looks nicer than a quality set if rim brakes. I think both types function well, easy maintenance. Just watched the Tour de France on FLOBIKE, must plug them, great streaming service. Anyway, seems more discs than rim but hey, they are pros, they ridec what the sponsor wants them too, for the most part. I remember a British rider Tommy Simpson waaaaaaaaay back in the '60's why he rode a Peugot. He said. "The money they pay me I would ride a donkey". so what the pros ride are as much economics as function. Ridse what you like, when you like.
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Old 09-30-20, 03:38 PM
  #128  
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i like brakes.
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Old 10-01-20, 07:43 AM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by gthomson View Post
I just don't see any sex appeal in a disc brake.
Disc brakes can be "sexy"... just need to work at it a little



From a nostalgic point of view, yeah, it would be hard to envision a 70's or 80's Italian steel bike frame with discs. However, disc brakes aren't about nostalgia, they're about braking performance... so definitely a "new bike thing". The stock discs and calipers on most bikes are pretty boring as they are typically gray or black. However, there are companies that true to spruce-them-up a little be providing anodized colors on the inner section of floating disc rotors and powder coated calipers in all sorts of colors... but you typically only see these options in mountain bikes and not road bikes. If you've got the money and want to spend the time looking, $exy can be attained with a disc brake, IMHO.
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Old 10-01-20, 10:38 AM
  #130  
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GThomson, how do you feel about disc brakes on street motorcycles? I think your feelings are based on what you're used to, and for now you used to seeing rim brakes. That's OK, but may change over time. Personally, I love the clean look of a bike with the disc calipers tucked in close to the fork and rear dropout, and NO CALIPERS sticking out, especially on top of the fork.
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Old 10-01-20, 04:25 PM
  #131  
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Just got a new road bike, my first with disc brakes. I was perfectly happy with rim brakes, especially because they are easier to maintain. But the new bike has 32m tires, bigger than I could get with rim brakes. Wow, what an incredibly smooth ride. For that reason alone, Iím glad I made the switch.
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Old 10-01-20, 06:25 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by BlazingPedals View Post
GThomson, how do you feel about disc brakes on street motorcycles? I think your feelings are based on what you're used to, and for now you used to seeing rim brakes. That's OK, but may change over time. Personally, I love the clean look of a bike with the disc calipers tucked in close to the fork and rear dropout, and NO CALIPERS sticking out, especially on top of the fork.
Don't really know much about motor bikes so probably not qualified to make any comments. I can't really imagine any other kind of brake on a motor bike other than disc brakes but maybe I'm wrong?
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Old 10-01-20, 08:07 PM
  #133  
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Some people like the looks of rim brakes... Some people like the looks of disk brakes... Who cares... Unless we are talking about looks, and what one prefers in the looks department, then, caring about looks count... BUT If, we are talking about performance... anyone who says rim brakes are just as good as discs, is full of horse pucky, now if they say rim brakes are "good enough", for them and how they ride, well, that's just fine... BUT, Hydraulic discs just can't be beat, for practically every reason one has brakes for, to start with, stopping power, modulation of stopping power, consistency of the stopping power, power applied compared to power gotten, fade resistance, weather resistance... and so on... Hydraulic discs are leagues ahead of rim brakes, in every category... it is that simple. even weight wise, who would care about those few ounces of extra weight compared to the benefits of what you get... IMO it is a no brainer to go hydraulic discs for the performance benefit, the reliability and the aforementioned +++....
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Old 10-01-20, 09:19 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
Some people like the looks of rim brakes... Some people like the looks of disk brakes... Who cares... Unless we are talking about looks, and what one prefers in the looks department, then, caring about looks count... BUT If, we are talking about performance... anyone who says rim brakes are just as good as discs, is full of horse pucky, now if they say rim brakes are "good enough", for them and how they ride, well, that's just fine... BUT, Hydraulic discs just can't be beat, for practically every reason one has brakes for, to start with, stopping power, modulation of stopping power, consistency of the stopping power, power applied compared to power gotten, fade resistance, weather resistance... and so on... Hydraulic discs are leagues ahead of rim brakes, in every category... it is that simple. even weight wise, who would care about those few ounces of extra weight compared to the benefits of what you get... IMO it is a no brainer to go hydraulic discs for the performance benefit, the reliability and the aforementioned +++....
This ad brought to you by a shill for "big disc".
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Old 10-02-20, 08:35 PM
  #135  
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I read the original post and I'm reacting to it as "this is who I am, who are you... when it comes to rim vs. disc brakes on road bikes". Here's my answer, and my answer won a couple of impressive stages in the 2020 TDF.



My next bike might have disc brakes, but I tried this time(new bike purchase) and then BMC had those fork recalls. Me, I started racing back in the 80s and rim brakes have *never* let me down. Maybe next time will convert me.
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Old 10-10-20, 12:16 AM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
Why not change...??? Have you ever rode a bike with disk brakes...??? If you have NOT experienced the difference between the two, I can assure you, that, there IS a difference.
I have ridden hub mounted disc. I have 8 bikes. Three of them have discs, one has a disc front and linear rear, 3 have cantilevers and one has dual pivot side pulls. The disc brake ones donít stop any better, any shorter, or with less effort than the cantilever equipped ones. There is no difference.

Wet; Night and day, in both the stopping power
Braking power isnít limited by the mechanism. It is limited by the friction between the road and the tire. That doesnít change if you are running disc or rim. And, if you have a brake that grabs harder, itís easier to go past that friction limit. And if the rotor gets wet, hub mounted discs will react just about the same as wet pads on a rim react. Thereís a lag while the water clears from the rotor.

, and, the modulation of said disc compared to rim...
People make a big deal about the superior modulation of disc, especially hydraulics, but, honestly, Iíve never experienced it. I can pull the lever on any of my bikes and get a little braking, a lot of braking, or panic stop levels on just about any surface or condition. The only brakes that Iíve ever used that I couldnít feel ďsuperior modulationĒ was the only hydraulic brakes I ever owned. They were the opposite of modulated. They were grabby and even a little bit of lever pull resulted in a near endo.

Dry; OK, not really much difference except in modulation, or, if loaded up and then the stopping power also becomes way more apparent...
How loaded up? Would nearly 60 lb of gear qualify? Would doing 50 mph down a twisty mountain road in North Carolina with 60lb of gear qualify? Would 50 mph downhill on a twisty mountain bike with 60 lb of gear in a driving rainstorm with cantilever brakes qualify? Iíve done it. I survived it. I didnít even think that I needed disc brakes to do it at the time. Nor do I think I need to have them to do the same thing now.

The bike (a Moots YBB) that has disc front and linear rear has no different lever feel between the two different brakes. I donít feel like the disc ďmodulatesĒ better than the linear brake. They feel exactly the same at the lever. When I load the bike up for off-road touring, the brakes work just the same as an unloaded bike. The rear brake doesnít suffer nor is the front brake vastly superior.

Muddy/Wet/ freezing/ over loaded/pushed to the limit aggressive riding... and... so on, including maintenance/adjustment/reliability in all those conditions have improved over the years...
The Moots I have is my winter bike. I put studs on it. The brakes arenít any different in freezing weather. In fact, that bike was the one where the rotor got wet and didnít work any better than a rim brake in the wet. All those things that you are saying are huge improvements havenít been so in my experience.

A list of 5 things that are wrong with disc:

1. It introduces dish...and the inherent weakness of dishing... into a wheel that wasnít dished before.
2. Rotor are easy to bend and difficult to true.
3. The pads have to be very close to the rotor to be effective.
4. Discs make rack mounting difficult.
5. (Kind of related to 1) The need for the rotor mount on the nondrive side moves the spokes inboard, narrowing the hub flanges and steepening the angle of the spokes which makes them more prone to breakage.

And a bonus problem

6. A very large rotor is traded for a smaller rotor. Heat management becomes a problem because a large mass of metal that can radiate heat quickly is traded for a smaller mass of metal.

I have no real problem with hub mounted discs...I do have a number of them...but I do have a problem with people trying to convince me and/or the rest of the world that they are vastly superior to rim brakes. Rim brakes are already discs. Hub mounting the rotor just changes the position. Itís a lateral improvement, not a step up.
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Old 10-10-20, 04:45 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
While the pedantic "rims are just bigger discs" claim is amusing, there's lots of bad information above. Bad information that simple doesn't jive with my experience, bad information that runs the gamut from Chicken Little type worries to simply false.
First, rim are just larger discs. Not ďpedanticĒ at all. They use the same principle as hub mounted rotors, i.e. a friction pad that squeezes a rotating disc.

Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
Hydraulic disc brake systems work better than cable brake systems because:

-more mechanical advantage makes one finger braking very easy
I have never understood the need for ďone finger brakingĒ. My experience with hydraulics was that it went from off to locked without any ability to ďmodulateĒ in between. My daughter per felt the same with hers.

Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
-consistent braking, wet or dry
Again, the braking is based on friction between the rubber and the road. If you canít get consistent braking with any brake, perhaps you should learn how to use the brakes.

Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
-consistent braking on big descents, no brake fade (which requires more force at the lever on other systems) ie. contrary to the nonsense above, discs manage heat better than rim brakes
Same as above. In 40 years and thousands of miles of mountain riding...both road and mountain bikes...I have never experienced brake fade with any brake system, up to and including tandems. Iíve never cooked any brake either including on 50mph loaded touring downhills. No, hub mounted discs donít ďmanage heat better than rim brakesĒ. Hub mounted brakes get incredibly hot if you drag them too much. The smaller rotor canít shed heat as fast.

Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
-consistent braking over time, no cables to contaminate, ferrules to seat
Never experienced inconsistent braking in 40 years of mountain riding. Plastic ferrules may need to seat on shifters but Iíve never had a ferrule issue with brakes. I donít use plastic ferrules for either brakes nor shifters. As for contamination, again, itís not been an issue...that includes winter riding.

Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
-they work with rims that aren't very true
But they work like crap when a rotor isnít true.

Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
-they are easier to adjust than cantis and LPs
Itís a poor mechanic who blames his tools. Perhaps you just need some instruction in how to adjust brakes.

Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
-they are mostly set-and-forget, maintenance is minimal
How much maintenance do you think needs to be done to rim brakes? I go years without having to do any maintenance on any brake...rim or disc. Then again, I donít drag brakes enough to over heat them.

Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
-your "larger disc" aka rim isn't a wear item
I have rims with thousands of miles on them. I have worn out very few rims over 40 years of riding. A rotor is also a wear item.

Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
20 years ago, after switching from a LP/hydraulic rim brake combo to disc, the difference was dramatic, even in the dry. No more having to nurse my brakes when they got hot, no more having to brake much earlier in the wet, a better grip on the bars in the chunk, etc. My hydraulic rim/ceramic coated disc setup was the best that I had found up to that point- hydraulic discs blew them away.
Maybe you should learn how to use your brakes so that you donít get them hot to begin with. When the trail or road heads down, Iím not shy about letting gravity have her way with me. The key is to use your brakes sparingly. Even when I have to come to a complete stop on a fast downhill, I donít get my brakes hot enough to cause a problem.

I had hydraulics. I was throughly unimpressed. But I know how to use my brakes.

Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
3 years ago, after switching from cantis to discs on my drop bar bike, I noticed the same things, especially on long steep descents in the dirt. Where I had brake fade in the past, I didn't have any issues at all. Riding in the wet, the there was no lag, lever inputs remain the same, regardless of conditions. That means riding that is faster, and more fun.
Iíve never been in a situation where I thought I needed more brake to have more fun.

Originally Posted by HD3andMe View Post
p.s. the claims about narrowing hub flanges, non-drive spokes moving inward, dishing issues etc. were never an issue when I ran 135 rears. Now that things have progressed to 142 or 148, wheels are even stronger than ever. Also, if someone imagines that rotors are easy to bend and difficult to true, this is proof that they lack any meaningful experience, and should be ignored. The opposite is true(pun intended), rotors are easy to true and not easy to bend.
Easy to true? Have you ever really done one? Compared to truing a wheel, a rotor is a hit and miss, purely guess work affair. I can say the same about your advice. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about and can be ignored.
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