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Originally Posted by PoorInRichfield
(Post 21709161)
Are you still able to ride in an aero position?...
As a rider ages, he/she often migrates more towards the Position 5, gradually replacing one's aero road bike with a more leisure bike that allows for a very up-right and very un-aerodynamic riding position...This makes me sad (I.e., it makes me sad that people feel obligated to by recreational bicycles instead of race bikes due to the stiffness and muscle loss that is a part of aging.) I am glad that I am mentally flexible enough to adapt my cycling technique to the associated aches, pains and/or limitations that may accompany the aging process and can continue to enjoy bicycling even if not with the same intensity of younger years. I never felt any sadness about buying or riding bicycles strictly for recreation, and have never felt any obligation to buy race bikes or ride in an areo position. Nor do I feel sad if other bicyclists are able to adapt their cycling technique/equipment to their physical conditions in order to keep enjoying bicycling. |
I'm 62 and ride in the 2-3 position almost all the time. I have about a 5" drop from my saddle to the top of the bars, although my arms are pretty long.
I started doing yoga intermittently a few years ago and subsequently stopped doing all the other stretches that I used to do when I played soccer. The most important thing for my well being (aside from regular riding) is the foam roller on the IT bands. |
I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish with your poll. My aggressive position has nothing to do with saddles or stem height, it has everything to do with the bike design. Put me on a nice downhill and I can coast away from a furiously-pedaling tandem team. I have set KOMs on roads where I was riding the brakes. At least your poll seems to imply, correctly, that sometimes the bike matters.
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Originally Posted by BlazingPedals
(Post 21713881)
I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish with your poll.
What I've experienced on various bicycle forums and in real life is that many people who rode a race bike when they were young gradually buy a bicycle that has a more up-right riding position as they age... and in many cases, give-up on traditional bikes altogether and buy a recumbent or trike. The reason for this is typically, "I can't comfortably ride in that low position any more due to [insert medical conditions here, like lower back pain, neck pain, belly is too big, etc.]". |
I'll be 62 in a few months, and I'm a 2 or 3 riding a Ridley Fenix frame with I think 20 mm of spacers 6 degree stem rise.
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Originally Posted by PoorInRichfield
(Post 21717225)
I'm doing a highly unscientific survey to try and determine if it's inevitable that bicyclists "devolve" to a more up-right riding position as we age no-matter-what or if the more aggressive riding positions are just as possible despite one's age.
What I've experienced on various bicycle forums and in real life is that many people who rode a race bike when they were young gradually buy a bicycle that has a more up-right riding position as they age... and in many cases, give-up on traditional bikes altogether and buy a recumbent or trike. The reason for this is typically, "I can't comfortably ride in that low position any more due to [insert medical conditions here, like lower back pain, neck pain, belly is too big, etc.]". I have never been able to get super low and age has definitely affected my flexibility and if I spend a few hours in the drops it wears me out. |
At 63 I probably ride mostly in #3 position even if I like to believe it is #2 ;)
I believe my frame size is a tad on the bigger size, so I ride mostly with hands on top or on brakes and go into more aggressive position by bending elbows more, not by moving hands to drops. That would make my arms almost straight, but perhaps that is because I don't like to bend my back that much. Reading the thread, all I can say, there is huge diversity of body builds and riding style. If you do long endurance rides, your position will be less aggressive than if you do fast fitness rides that don't need to be too long. In long endurance rides, you have more weight on the saddle that goes hand in hand with less aggressive position, and vice versa. At this age, I got my first aero bars TT bike LOL with much smaller frame, hope I will be able to last on it for some 20-30 miles rides. |
Just turned 62 on Sept. 10, 2020. I use position #2 most of the time (saddle to bar drop is about 2.5 inches and I do bend my elbows a little) but go to position #1 for short periods if I'm on a flat or downhill section of something I'm trying to PR. I can only hold that flat back aero position for about 8 minutes without relief unless I put on some tri bars and completely slam the stem (which I haven't done in a couple of years). Without doing that, I find it so uncomfortable to hold a bent elbow position and keep my neck in place that it affects my performance (plus it just takes a lot of the fun out of it).
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My riding position is more aggressive and aero now than in 2015 when I first resumed cycling after a 30-year hiatus. But that demanded a lot of physical therapy, in a clinic under supervision and at home. After being hit by cars twice in 20 years with serious injuries it takes a lot of work to stay reasonably limber.
I set up my bikes to suit my neck, which has permanent C1-C2 damage from injuries. I prefer being a bit more stretched out, but without too much drop between bar/stem and saddle. Over the years I've gone toward longer stems. Oddly, a position that's too upright is less comfortable. My neck feels better with a moderately aggressive position -- usually illustrations 2 and 3. When I'm sitting too upright I can feel crunching in my neck on every little jolt in the road. And an aero tuck with drop bars or aero bars strains the neck and upper back muscles, so I can hold an aero tuck for only 30-60 seconds at a time. I mostly ride drop bar road bikes now -- bars about 2" below saddle height -- and had to adjust my favorite hybrid to be a bit more aggressive for comfort. I replaced the upward angled stem to a long horizontal stem from a road bike, and set the albatross bar at saddle height. My comfort hybrid/errand bike has bars slightly higher than the saddle and is comfortable only for short distances. |
Originally Posted by Marylander
(Post 21709370)
I wouldn't mind being solidly in 2 but am more like a 3. I've got congenital disk fusion that led to pretty good neck arthritis with the accompanying bone spurs. We'll see what more time brings... I'm just 51 now.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3152a5c2d.jpeg |
50 y/o here
Though I have several bikes for several purposes. my fastest two bikes are setup like position 2. These are for shorter 20-50 mile rides, where I am pushing myself for decent average speeds (usually 17-18mph). I can usually last up to 3 hours in those positions before my neck and shoulders start to feel it. My two classic vintage racing bikes are setup like this too. The rest of my road bikes are setup like position 3, for example, my randonnuering bikes. |
Position 2 or 3 for me still even after 3 level lower back fusion 3 years ago and another spinal stenosis surgery 11 years prior to that. I find that am completely painless on the bike and after a ride my back feels the best. It's my therapy at 60+.
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I will be 66 in a week and still in the drops 90% of the time. I do stretch at least once an hour on long rides. I stop and drink and then a few stretching exercises . This keeps me in the drops without suffering from any fatigue.
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Originally Posted by Kabuki12
(Post 21753383)
I will be 66 in a week and still in the drops 90% of the time. I do stretch at least once an hour on long rides. I stop and drink and then a few stretching exercises . This keeps me in the drops without suffering from any fatigue.
After a long hard ride, I'm totally cooked. I used to stretch at stops, but don't need to anymore. I stretch most mornings instead. |
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...987a96f999.jpg
1982 Medici Pro Strada This is my most modern bike! |
Originally Posted by Kabuki12
(Post 21755455)
1982 Medici Pro Strada
This is my most modern bike! |
I find the older I get, my bars get a bit higher, my low gear a bit lower, and my tires a bit fatter. I recently built up this 1979 Trek 510 (full ishiwata O22 frame, low temp silver brazed). I like it because it fits 700 x 35c tires; perfect for gravel and road riding.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d452fa7bf9.jpg |
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9b7133a65.jpeg
Originally Posted by bikemig
(Post 21755651)
I find the older I get, my bars get a bit higher, my low gear a bit lower, and my tires a bit fatter. I recently built up this 1979 Trek 510 (full ishiwata O22 frame, low temp silver brazed). I like it because it fits 700 x 35c tires; perfect for gravel and road riding.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d452fa7bf9.jpg |
I checked "fitness." All of my bikes are set up with the tops of the bars level with the saddle, give or take. With that said, I injured my back a couple weeks ago, and only today was ready to even try riding a bike again. It was painful to ride, so I ordered a 120 mm stem riser for one bike. My guess is that I'll ride it that way until my back heals, then I'll take it back off when I get sick of it. Or maybe not. We'll see.
The riser seems like a decent compromise. It's my only bike with a threadless steerer. If this becomes permanent, then I'll have to figure out longer stems on the other bikes, or decide how many bikes I really need. That would be a bit sad. Or maybe I'll get a new bike. ;) Now, all of my bikes have swept bars, so I have a lot less reach to contend with than most riders. #1 priority is getting back on my bike at all. #2 is comfort and performance. #3 is looks. |
Originally Posted by Gresp15C
(Post 21758465)
I checked "fitness." All of my bikes are set up with the tops of the bars level with the saddle, give or take. With that said, I injured my back a couple weeks ago, and only today was ready to even try riding a bike again. It was painful to ride, so I ordered a 120 mm stem riser for one bike. My guess is that I'll ride it that way until my back heals, then I'll take it back off when I get sick of it. Or maybe not. We'll see.
The riser seems like a decent compromise. It's my only bike with a threadless steerer. If this becomes permanent, then I'll have to figure out longer stems on the other bikes, or decide how many bikes I really need. That would be a bit sad. Or maybe I'll get a new bike. ;) Now, all of my bikes have swept bars, so I have a lot less reach to contend with than most riders. #1 priority is getting back on my bike at all. #2 is comfort and performance. #3 is looks. I didn't change my slammed stem fit. |
I saw this article in the Track Racing sub a while back, and took the advice to heart about not stretching or twisting the back. Here is a quote:
Too much spine flexibility will cause low back injury. Science has proven this. In symptomatic and asymptomatic workers, the differences between the two groups were things other than spine flexibility and low back strength. Although beyond the scope of this article, the differences between the two groups were faulty movement patterns, aberrant motor patterns, and core muscular endurance (not strength). Again interestingly enough, by correcting faulty movement/motor patterns, training core endurance, and training the spine in the neutral position, pain-free spine range of motion usually returns. Again, don’t train to the test! As the spine extends (or bends backwards) the facet joints are loaded, and the interspinous ligament is compressed, both at risk for injury. Perhaps the biggest issue with spine extension is the bending of the neural arch loading the pars interarticularis. The neural arch is slightly flexible and analogous to a paper clip. It will bend back and forth several times before it breaks, but it will break. Not surprisingly, repetitive spine flexion/extension cycles causing bending of the neural arch will result in fatigue fractures, leading to spondylolisthesis- a fracture of the pars interarticularis where one vertebra actually slides forward on another due to the loss of anterior shear support It's an eye-opening article, extensively footnoted, which essentially says that everything we thought we knew about exercises and stretches that twist and or flex the back excessively, are completely wrong and actually destructive. They break down connective tissues meant to stabilize the back, and make injury more likely. Over the past six months or so, I have completely stopped all stretching of the back. And the results have been excellent. I would suggest at least reading the article, it's very long, but also very comprehensive. |
Originally Posted by Lemond1985
(Post 21759529)
I saw this article in the Track Racing sub a while back, and took the advice to heart about not stretching or twisting the back. Here is a quote:
https://spinehealth.org/breaking-dow...wn-your-spine/ It's an eye-opening article, extensively footnoted, which essentially says that everything we thought we knew about exercises and stretches that twist and or flex the back excessively, are completely wrong and actually destructive. They break down connective tissues meant to stabilize the back, and make injury more likely. Over the past six months or so, I have completely stopped all stretching of the back. And the results have been excellent. I would suggest at least reading the article, it's very long, but also very comprehensive. and then did McKenzie Method stretches: https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...l#post15372967 I did this McKenzie series: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a4/74...1b79eb657b.jpg In terms of spine rotation, I also used these stretches: https://www.healthline.com/health/ba...atic-stretches while I had sciatica and they also had a very beneficial effect and sped up the healing process. I don't do them anymore simply because they take time and I feel OK. It took a month or so, but this routine fixed me right up. I've also had knee tendinitis issues from not stretching. Again, my stretches fixed me right up inside a week. I think you might revise your point to say "overstretching" rather than stretching. The former is a good point. I once pulled a hamstring overstretching, which took a long time to heal. And it is true that overstretchng can cause sports injuries by allowing the joint to take a big load outside its normal range with bad consequences. That said, the opinions in your link are not generally supported by the medical community, nor by my experience and the experience of my cycling buddies. IMO, the way one avoids joint and spine injuries is to strengthen the muscles surrounding joints and the spine. This helps hold them in alignment. One key to injury prevention is holding things in alignment. Another key is to keep one's muscles and tendons sufficiently flexible so that normal sports movements do not take them to the limit of said flexibility. It's easy to go over a little in normal activity as well as in crashes, falls, and mistakes. I once had to finish a long cycling route by pedaling one-legged because of a lack of stretching my knee tendons. Luckily I only had a few miles to go. |
Those are fine, I don't see any twisting or forcing the back in any position beyond the normal range of motion. Except #6 , and I notice 1.) it's saved for last, and 2.) it's not anything too far out of the back's normal range and is not really forced.
Compare, if the person was standing, and asked to do a very deep hamstring stretch, that's where you start tearing stuff, IMO. The article mainly focuses on the harms of various twisting exercises, but it's very scholarly and well-written, and I would dare anyone to find anything in the article (as opposed to my clumsy summary) that is terribly debatable or unorthodox. |
I’m 68 with neck and back problems and I ride at a “4” all the time. These days I’m not riding for speed or endurance; my rides are leisurely and seldom more than 12 miles or 12 MPH. However, I find that I enjoy riding more than ever!
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I'm 64. I stretch more than doing specific core exercises. Although, I had an issue with sciatica and got physical therapy twice per week 9 months ago. They focused on core exerciss. I did those exercises at home for about 3 months. Now, I just do a couple of yoga stretches. I have aero bars so I'm in that position a lot. Then Posture 2. When I'm tired and on the way home, I'll be in Posture 3.
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2 or 3 most of the time, I can’t tell which it is.
1 when I do the forearm on the bars position, usually into the wind. 62.5 years now, position hasn’t changed in 20 years. Bar drop is 6 cm. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c113fa910.jpeg 2006 Heartbreak Hundred |
I'm 64 and in reasonably good health. I could still ride in position 2 if I choose to, But have only one bike and opted for a comfort bike, Position 5. Bolt upright. I had a cheap mountain bike that was awful. I ride mostly for pleasure and excersize. I love this Giant Sedona and can ride it for hours without fatigue or discomfort. I usually get bored before I get uncomfortable.
That said, I wouldn't mind a 2'nd more aggressive bike to try out. Might try a local used bike, perhaps a road bike. Problem is I probably need a small frame for enough standover height with my 28" inseam. I even considered a low entry/woman's style bike. With a rear trunk bag that high top bar makes getting on and off pain. Even without the rear carrier and bag, It's still not easy for me to get on the bike over the seat. |
Originally Posted by terrymorse
(Post 22094155)
2 or 3 most of the time, I can’t tell which it is.
1 when I do the forearm on the bars position, usually into the wind. 62.5 years now, position hasn’t changed in 20 years. Bar drop is 6 cm. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c113fa910.jpeg 2006 Heartbreak Hundred https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9948351714.jpg |
65 y.o. Position 2 on road bike. Position 3 on gravel bike. Position 4 on hybrid ebike. Do yoga in cold weather. Too much else to do in warmer weather. Cycling is a blessing as you age. Good for mind and body.
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