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High HR diminishing with age- your experience?

Old 10-19-20, 09:43 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
The general rule I have always heard was your age subtracted from 220. So at about 60 your max should be around 160.
You'll find a ton of people here for whom that rule doesn't apply.

But one of my main queries in the OP, which hasn't really received much feedback here, is the implication of that supposed rule is that the decline in MHR might be consistent and gradual - 1 beat per year. My original point was that my experience was that my MHR didn't change for nearly a decade, and then recently has declined more noticeably.

Lots of posts here to the effect of It was x before, now it's y. Or it's x, and has always been so. Or I don't know what it is and I don't care.

So let me rephrase. For those of you who monitor with some care, and who have seen a decline over the years, has it been a steady decline, or plateaus interspersed with more noticeable changes?
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Old 10-19-20, 09:59 PM
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500 meter time trial with a full power standing start and accelerating a 96 gear inches to 130 rpm, my HR maxes out at 187. In the 2k pursuit with an 80% standing start and finishing at 106 rpm, it is 175 and for a time trial it levels out at 164. Age 71.

IMO, changes in HR and performance over time is about the kind of training and doing the same thing all the time. I have a tendency to ride the same routes and do the same workouts. Hence, I can stagnate and performance goes down. I need to keep the workouts fresh and different.

This sounds easy but I think it is actually very hard to do.

The pandemic is terrible for training. I used to go to the track and workout with my coach and my training friends and we were always doing interesting stuff that was challenging and different. That facility is shut down.

And I find group rides are similar and do the same thing all the time, sprint at the same spots and etc. Unless someone is in charge and shakes up the activity and challenges each participant, I think they stagnate as well. Just saying.

I would measure age impact on performance in terms of decades and then I would not measure it all.
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Old 10-20-20, 08:00 AM
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So is this the theory we are discussing?: Reduced HR means reduced blood oxygen levels and therefor reduced performance?

If it does not (as some in this thread indicate that performance has not changed or has actually increased).. does it matter?
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Old 10-20-20, 08:03 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
As to it being individual, definitely. (For a long time, it was said that Chris Froome's MHR was 161 bpm, but he's released data on climbs where he hits as high as 174. Still rather low for someone his age, but obviously not related to his performance. Then again, his resting heart rate is 32.....)
Interesting. I wonder if the spread (from resting to max HR) is related to performance?

Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
The general rule I have always heard was your age subtracted from 220. So at about 60 your max should be around 160.
If that rule were valid, I'd be 25 years younger than I actually am -- which might please my wife. Last year, I did at least a couple races, ranging from 2-4+ hours, in which my average HR was at 220 minus my age.
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Old 10-20-20, 09:52 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
You'll find a ton of people here for whom that rule doesn't apply.

But one of my main queries in the OP, which hasn't really received much feedback here, is the implication of that supposed rule is that the decline in MHR might be consistent and gradual - 1 beat per year. My original point was that my experience was that my MHR didn't change for nearly a decade, and then recently has declined more noticeably.

Lots of posts here to the effect of It was x before, now it's y. Or it's x, and has always been so. Or I don't know what it is and I don't care.

So let me rephrase. For those of you who monitor with some care, and who have seen a decline over the years, has it been a steady decline, or plateaus interspersed with more noticeable changes?
That is probably true, because I would think most of the people that post here are cyclist and are not average. That is what cycling does for us.
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Old 10-20-20, 11:48 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
You'll find a ton of people here for whom that rule doesn't apply.

But one of my main queries in the OP, which hasn't really received much feedback here, is the implication of that supposed rule is that the decline in MHR might be consistent and gradual - 1 beat per year. My original point was that my experience was that my MHR didn't change for nearly a decade, and then recently has declined more noticeably.

Lots of posts here to the effect of It was x before, now it's y. Or it's x, and has always been so. Or I don't know what it is and I don't care.

So let me rephrase. For those of you who monitor with some care, and who have seen a decline over the years, has it been a steady decline, or plateaus interspersed with more noticeable changes?
Yeah, time seems to speed up as one gets older. My max HR has dropped faster with age, especially since 70. Lower down the effort scale, the effect is not as severe. I probably first saw a quicker drop at around 60. Not a plateau, though, ever. Steadily dropping on a curve with increasing slope. I would suspect training changes to accompany any plateau. In my 50s my MHR was well above the 220-age formula. At 75, it's very close.
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Old 10-20-20, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Yeah, time seems to speed up as one gets older. My max HR has dropped faster with age, especially since 70. Lower down the effort scale, the effect is not as severe. I probably first saw a quicker drop at around 60. Not a plateau, though, ever. Steadily dropping on a curve with increasing slope. I would suspect training changes to accompany any plateau. In my 50s my MHR was well above the 220-age formula. At 75, it's very close.

Maybe true for you. I speculate that you will have a different max HR for cycling, running, swimming, cross country skiing and rowing. And I bet, you would set a new max record if you accidentally fell into deep water and could not swim.

And I speculate that if you were in a shorter cycling event with consequences that you cared about against competition, your max HR would be different. Just saying.

Last edited by Hermes; 10-20-20 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 10-20-20, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Maybe true for you. I speculate that you will have a different max HR for cycling, running, swimming, cross country skiing and rowing. And I bet, you would set a new max record if you accidentally fell into deep water and could not swim.

And I speculate that if you were in a shorter cycling event with consequences that you cared about against competition, your max HR would be different. Just saying.
Yeah, there's probably some truth here. Also, this refers back to Hermes earlier point about the effects of covid. I hit 179 bpm in a group sprint in January and 175 bpm racing some friends up a hill in June and these are my two high water marks in 2020. I can't get up that high riding on my own, even doing intervals, because I don't have the adrenaline of competition. Quite likely, if I had been doing spirited rides all year long, I would have seen more and even higher rates.

But one other thing I raised in the OP is slightly different. 10 years ago I could get up to 175 no problem - doing intervals on a recumbent gym bike, I'd be at or near 175 at the end of every interval. That wasn't my max HR, but it was up there. There's no way I can regularly get to that rate now.

There's a bunch of people on here who continue to say "who cares"? (I can never figure out why such people open the thread in the first place if they really don't care). One reason to pay attention is setting HR zones. At the moment, I find it puzzling telling Zwift what my MHR should be.

Last edited by Hermes; 10-20-20 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 10-20-20, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Maybe true for you. I speculate that you will have a different max HR for cycling, running, swimming, cross country skiing and rowing. And I bet, you would set a new max record if you accidentally fell into deep water and could not swim.

And I speculate that if you were in a shorter cycling event with consequences that you cared about against competition, your max HR would be different. Just swaying.
I suppose it's possible that one might get a higher HR in a quick, certain death event. My current plan is to avoid those. For certain you would not have any idea whether your conjecture is true or not. Nor does anyone care.

Short cycling events, no. HR does not get as high. It takes a hard hill after 60 miles of hard riding and then a big hill with a stronger rider in front of me whom I sprint to catch, to get it that high. My HR doesn't just pop up, it builds over time. I participate in other sports, Nordic, Alpine, and running. Doesn't seem to be much difference between them in terms of HR response.

Everyone's different, sort of the point of this thread. You'll be different too, when you are my age.
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Old 10-20-20, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
Yeah, there's probably some truth here. Also, this refers back to Hermes earlier point about the effects of covid. I hit 179 bpm in a group sprint in January and 175 bpm racing some friends up a hill in June and these are my two high water marks in 2020. I can't get up that high riding on my own, even doing intervals, because I don't have the adrenaline of competition. Quite likely, if I had been doing spirited rides all year long, I would have seen more and even higher rates.

But one other thing I raised in the OP is slightly different. 10 years ago I could get up to 175 no problem - doing intervals on a recumbent gym bike, I'd be at or near 175 at the end of every interval. That wasn't my max HR, but it was up there. There's no way I can regularly get to that rate now.

There's a bunch of people on here who continue to say "who cares"? (I can never figure out why such people open the thread in the first place if they really don't care). One reason to pay attention is setting HR zones. At the moment, I find it puzzling telling Zwift what my MHR should be.
I would just use the 179 figure. It's your highest recent observed HR.
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Old 10-20-20, 02:48 PM
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At the age of 73 my MHR has not dropped. I can still bring it up to 175.
I use a HR monitor on all my rides training, races, and Brevets.
What I have noticed is the HR that I can maintain on a climb has dropped, and keeps dropping every year.
I used to be able to maintain 160-165 bpm on a long climb (45 to 60 min). Now I can only maintain 140-145 bpm on the same extended climb.
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Old 10-21-20, 02:07 AM
  #37  
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I'm 60 now and noticed a drop in MHR a year -plus ago. I used to hit anaerobic on interval training sessions but now only get to high tempo or mid-threshold. My Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE) is still the same but the HR doesn't reflect it (not as high as it used to go). Because of this, I'm thinking of getting power meters on both road bike and mtb--you can't lie about wattage. I'm not getting wigged out as much not seeing my HR not go as high as it used to (used to be 179 two years ago, lucky to hit maybe 171, 172 in a mtb XC race now). I'm in the best shape ever, even better than I was in 2015 (5 years younger and working with a coach then)--I just won 4 podium spots as well as overall for my category, so not complaining too much.

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Old 10-22-20, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
So is this the theory we are discussing?: Reduced HR means reduced blood oxygen levels and therefor reduced performance?

If it does not (as some in this thread indicate that performance has not changed or has actually increased).. does it matter?
It wouldn't follow that you'll have reduced oxygen levels from a lower maximum heart rate, because of other factors involved. Also, if you did, it would only be while at maximum effort and running mostly on glycogen. So I do not think that the theory is that the lowered max impacts performance.

I think that knowing a bit more about it helps us understand the whole system better.
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Old 10-22-20, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
So is this the theory we are discussing?: Reduced HR means reduced blood oxygen levels and therefor reduced performance?
no, I don't believe anybody here has suggested that theory or linked diminished max heart rate directly to reduced performance

Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
If it does not (as some in this thread indicate that performance has not changed or has actually increased).. does it matter?
It depends what you mean by "matter". Alternatively, read the thread.
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Old 10-23-20, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
no, I don't believe anybody here has suggested that theory or linked diminished max heart rate directly to reduced performance



It depends what you mean by "matter". Alternatively, read the thread.
I did not try to imply anything. They were two direct questions that I was curious about.
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Old 10-31-20, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
We all know, the ability to reach high heart rates goes down with age. But for a long time, I saw no change. Then in the last 2 years, and particularly in the last year, I've seen a significant decrease. I expected it would go down gradually, but instead it held steady throughout most of my 50s, and then....

What's been your experience?

More detail. I'm 59. I first started riding and having info for my HR at age 48. I don't know where I was at before then.

At age 48-50, the max HR I observed was 178, and I easily got up to 175 doing intervals on stationary bikes at the gym.
At age 50-58, I saw readings above 180 at least a few times a year, and each year, my MHR observed was 182-184.
At age 58, though I still saw readings above 180 (highest 183), I found that it was hard to get my HR much above 175, except in extreme efforts. I could do intervals or all-out on a hill climb and top out in the low 170s.
This year (age 159), I have on very few occasions reached the mid 170s, but it's very unusual. I went out on an all-out hill climb ride a few weeks ago, and the highest I could get was 168.

Also, my HR for modest efforts has gone down. Whereas a spinning flat ride of say, 30 miles, 17 mph, would be an average HR in the high 120s previously, now it's typically 115 bpm.

I don't think my fitness has diminished (it went down for a time this summer because I was off the bike owing to an injury, but it's mostly back now). And I'm not worried about it, except that I wonder how things will change in the future.

Curious about others' experiences.
I'd missed this thread, which relates directly to similar observations of my own, described in this thread: Heart Rate Ranges Changing

For me, the change seems to have happened mostly in the last couple months. Same thing - lower heart rates, including resting heart rate, apparent Lactate Threshold, and Maximum observed HR have all dropped significantly, as has my HR during equivalent efforts. In addition, I'm going FASTER at LOWER HRs than I was, on the order of 1.5 mph faster over 20 miles with a HR 15 bpm lower.
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Old 10-31-20, 09:43 PM
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One observation on MaxHR - the two times I'm pretty sure I hit it, it was not just 'the highest HR on a particularly hard ride/race/hill'. It was VERY different from just looking back at your computer and saying "wow, I hit 193!". Both times, I was sprinting after an increasing effort that had run my HR up to the high 180s, and both times it felt like I hit a wall. Not only could I not go any higher, I had no gas to even try. Like somebody pulled the plug.

So, what you THINK is MaxHR may be below your REAL MaxHR, unless you've experienced hitting that wall.

Next, the idea that no matter what your MaxHR is, it drops at 1 bpm/year doesn't seem to be true. If my MaxHR was 193 in 2000, it should have been 174 in 2019, but I was able to exceed 180 last year, several times on the same ride, with nothing like the 'hitting the wall' feeling of hitting MaxHR.

Third, both the OP and I have experienced our entire HR range moving, such that we can't hit the same HRs we used to, but WITHOUT getting slower - we're hitting the same speeds at significantly lower HR. In my case, I'm actually significantly FASTER than I had been at a lower HR.
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Old 11-02-20, 08:59 PM
  #43  
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So, what you THINK is MaxHR may be below your REAL MaxHR, unless you've experienced hitting that wall.
So, is maximum heart rate (as used in this thread) defined as the heart rate at which you hit that "wall" and have to stop? That's how I thought it was defined a few years ago when I was using a heart rate monitor to gauge intensity levels, and always wondered if I was doing it correctly!
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Old 11-03-20, 08:30 AM
  #44  
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I'm turning 58 this month. I've been using a HRM for the last 20+ years. I can comfortably sustain a HR in the 170's. In the 180's I'm working hard. My cut-off is 193-194. Has been like this for 20+ years. With that said, I do not train to a certain HR. It is what it is, I'm just observing. So as I pass 60 and beyond I fully expect those numbers to decline. If they don't I have discovered the secret to perpetual youth and I'll be selling a book.
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Old 11-03-20, 02:27 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by canny View Post
So, is maximum heart rate (as used in this thread) defined as the heart rate at which you hit that "wall" and have to stop? That's how I thought it was defined a few years ago when I was using a heart rate monitor to gauge intensity levels, and always wondered if I was doing it correctly!
I don't know how others are measuring it, but that's how I figured it.
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