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50+ Thoughts on going tubeless.

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50+ Thoughts on going tubeless.

Old 05-20-21, 03:12 AM
  #26  
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Just run tubes with removable valve cores and carry a small 2oz bottle of Stan's with you (or just always keep it in the tube). 1oz is enough for one road tire. That's what I do with my tubulars. The Stan's seals so well that my tire holds the pressure for almost a week before I have to reinflate. I rarely get punctures but if I lived back in El Paso where I'd puncture every other ride that's what I'd do.
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Old 05-20-21, 06:37 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
125 psi in a 25 mm tire?

Gee, that sounds quite high.

Michelin recommends for a 25 mm tire a pressure range of 73-102 psi, dependent on the cyclist's weight:


I was following the tire manufacturer and lbs recommendation. I’m 6’3” 200lbs so was towards the top of the range...
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Old 05-20-21, 10:36 AM
  #28  
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Some might be interested in a thread I started in the Hybrid forum a while back.The end of my Tubeless experiment
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Old 05-20-21, 01:01 PM
  #29  
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I've had enough flats that when i recently built up a new randonneuring bike, I built it tubeless. I had the typical initial challenges, but I have things sorted out now.
I have no hesitancy planning to run tubeless on a 1200k later this year; that's indicative of my thoughts.
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Old 05-20-21, 03:58 PM
  #30  
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We're up to post 30. Need 20 more thoughts to pass 50 as is the title. <grin>
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Old 05-20-21, 05:16 PM
  #31  
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I rarely flat and in fact until 2 weeks ago I had gone well over 2 years and at least 12000 miles without a flat. I do not at all see any advantage to them unless you are flatting 2-3 times a month possible. I try to avoid roads that can cause problems and around here no goatheads just road debris from the usual things. Pothole did cause me a pinch flat on Monday though because I could not avoid without getting hit by a car.

So that said I use Conti GP5000 and tubes they work very well. I can put the tires on with my hands and put a tube in.............to me this is the easier avenue of roll.
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Old 05-21-21, 10:43 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by leob1 View Post
I been thinking about 'up grading' the wheels on my road bike to a tubeless set up. But the curmudgeon in my says that tube work fine so why go through the time and expense setting up to tubeless. Wheels and tires are tubeless ready.
So, what is the benefit of going tubeless; better ride? less flats? less maintenance? Is it worth it?
Your thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Takes a while to get the hang of working with them, but tubeless have gotten me home without changing a flat on the side of the road many times.
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Old 05-21-21, 11:27 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by alandmor View Post
Takes a while to get the hang of working with them, but tubeless have gotten me home without changing a flat on the side of the road many times.
What do you carry with you for roadside tubeless repair?
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Old 05-21-21, 12:56 PM
  #34  
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I've been using tubeless road tires since 2011 to reduce flats for the following 2 reasons.
One reason is when I race I do not have support to replace a wheel if I get a flat, and the other
on brevets so I don't have to deal with flats on a cold or rainy night.

However, I have found the following drawbacks using them.

1. The sealant leaves a "gummy" residue on the tires and rims which is difficult to remove.
2. I have had rims corrode from the sealant-alloy combination so much that had to be replaced.
3. This residue accumulates so you have to clean the tires and rims at least once a year.
4. After you clean the tires and rims they are difficult to seal again even with a compressor. So I sometimes end up replacing the tire even though it's not worn.
5. If you get a flat, and for some reason it does not seal itself, and you have to install an inner tube it's a mess.
6. When you have to install an inner tube on the road you need a small pliers to loosen the valve ring at least for Stan's and Shimano valves.
7. You need valves with a removable core to add sealant so you don't break the tire to rim seal.

However, I still have not converted back to tubes considering the comfort and less flats I get from tubeless tires.
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Old 05-21-21, 09:57 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by cj3209 View Post
PROS: peace of mind (I've been tubeless since last year on three bikes and no flats yet)

CONS: mounting the tires onto the rims is a serious PITA. I had to have my LBS do it for me. I did get a special tire pump to quickly force air into the tires but I haven't tried it yet. But once you get the tire on the rim, it's smooth sailing from then on with the periodic sealant addition.
i use my air compressor to seat the tires on the rims. Makes it a snap. If you dont have one you can get a small one cheap at Harbor Freight

i ride rough roads and some gravel and the ability to run at lower pressures without worrying about pinch flats is a game changer. The ride is smooth, fast and haven’t had a puncture in over a year. My clinchers and wheels have been sitting on the wall for a year.

They are more work to install and can get messy. It takes practice to seat, just like your first clincher change. I have them on my road bike and mountain bike with zero flats over a year where I used to have at least 6-8 flats a year with both. It all depends on the roads you ride and the amount of flats you get.
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Old 05-22-21, 09:53 AM
  #36  
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Coming from mountain biking back into road cycling last year I just went with tubeless from the start and haven't had a flat yet. When I ran tubes years ago (both mtb and road) I would typically get 4 or 5 flats a year. So tubeless wins on that score for me. The odd time I got a flat on my mtb tubeless (pre sealant days) I had 100% success plugging them from the outside, which is much quicker than replacing a tube. Since running sealant I haven't had a single flat in 5+ years of mtb riding. The other thing I like about tubeless is lower running pressures. The downside is potential hassle seating them on rims. Some rim/tyre combinations are easy and some are really stubborn.
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Old 05-22-21, 11:53 AM
  #37  
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About the assertion that tubeless is better because of fewer flats:

1. Isn't that because everyone uses sealant in their tubeless tires?

2. Wouldn't using sealant in a tubed tire provide the same flat prevention benefit?

Apples to apples.
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Old 05-22-21, 01:09 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
About the assertion that tubeless is better because of fewer flats:

1. Isn't that because everyone uses sealant in their tubeless tires?

2. Wouldn't using sealant in a tubed tire provide the same flat prevention benefit?

Apples to apples.

You aren't achieving the full benefit of tubeless because you would still have tubes!

The sealant may not help with pinch flats.
The two major benefits from tubeless are the reduction in weight and rolling resistance, and the resistance to pinch flats.
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Old 05-22-21, 05:52 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Cpn_Dunsel View Post
The sealant may not help with pinch flats. The two major benefits from tubeless are the reduction in weight and rolling resistance, and the resistance to pinch flats.
So restricting the "benefit" to resistance to punctures, which many postings in this thread have touted as the main benefit from tubeless.

The tubeless advantage is (drumroll, please)... Pinch flats.

Color me under-impressed. I've had one pinch flat in all my years of cycling, and that was because I forgot to offload the saddle over a cattle guard.

How about that reduction in weight?

Tubeless: Continental Grand Prix 5000 TL, 300 g
Tubed: Continental Grand Prix 5000, 215 g, Vittoria Competition latex tube, 85g -> 300g

Verdict: no weight savings for tubeless.

How about that rolling resistance advantage (@ 100 psi)?

Continental GP 5000 TL: 8.9 Watts
Continental GP 5000: 10.7 Watts (with butyl tube)

Verdict: tubeless affords a marginally better rolling resistance.
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Old 05-22-21, 07:46 PM
  #40  
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With a tubeless setup you won't be able to start loony threads like this one, for example...

Frequent flats?
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Old 05-22-21, 08:55 PM
  #41  
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Tried it. Didn’t like it. Went back to tubes.

I think the determining factor is whether you ride in a desert or area where you frequently flat due to small, sharp objects (cactus spines, goatheads etc.). If so, tubeless can be great. But I ride in the mountains. If I’m going to slice a tire, chances are a bucket of goo isn’t going to help.

The supposed ‘weight advantage’ seems like marketing to me. I didn’t notice any real world difference.
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Old 05-23-21, 09:46 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post

Color me under-impressed.
.
Then don't do it.
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Old 05-23-21, 10:05 AM
  #43  
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I’ve been riding tubeless for a year and really like the performance gain (an easy 2 MPH) and the smoothness which provides additional comfort on long rides. Yesterday I took out my other drop bar road bike on new Conti 5000 clinchers (I have been riding Conti 5000 tubeless) and the difference between how the bikes felt and road was stark to say the least. The tubed bike took more effort, didn’t accelerate quickly and felt harsh even at 85/90 PSI. It felt like driving a VW compared to a new car. Couldn’t wait to get back to tubeless. The only way to truly appreciate the difference is to ride tubed and tubeless back to back. The advantages of tubeless, for me, outweigh any disadvantages of mounting, etc.
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Old 05-23-21, 10:33 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
I’ve been riding tubeless for a year and really like the performance gain (an easy 2 MPH) and the smoothness which provides additional comfort on long rides. Yesterday I took out my other drop bar road bike on new Conti 5000 clinchers (I have been riding Conti 5000 tubeless) and the difference between how the bikes felt and road was stark to say the least. The tubed bike took more effort, didn’t accelerate quickly and felt harsh even at 85/90 PSI. It felt like driving a VW compared to a new car. Couldn’t wait to get back to tubeless. The only way to truly appreciate the difference is to ride tubed and tubeless back to back. The advantages of tubeless, for me, outweigh any disadvantages of mounting, etc.
It sure would be interesting to see a controlled blind test of all these tubeless "advantages".
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Old 05-23-21, 09:30 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
It sure would be interesting to see a controlled blind test of all these tubeless "advantages".
totally agree. I am all about double blind studies since a big part of my education involved the scientific method.
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Old 05-24-21, 11:25 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
It sure would be interesting to see a controlled blind test of all these tubeless "advantages".
Yeah, I volunteer to define the cohorts.

It would also be interesting to seed the crop of confirmation bias by misleading the subjects about what they were actually testing... kind of like when they do blind wine tastings but one of the bottles apparently has a screw top.
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Old 05-24-21, 11:36 AM
  #47  
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I did not find it worth it some 5+ yrs ago when I switch from HED Ardennes FR to tubeless-compatible DuraAce. Installation was hell on my DuraAce wheels using Schwalbe tires. I broke several tire levers before getting a stretcher bar, and even that was VERY difficult. Granted, I had no flats during that single season, although I somehow manage to avoid the Chicago road glass well enough to only incur 0-2 flats/yr. Perhaps most importantly, though, I didn't really notice any difference in ride. Maybe I'm not sufficiently discerning or I ride too slowly, but I didn't notice any great difference in feel or speed with the DA wheels (I'm now back on HED Ardennes Black, and HED's wide rims have always offered a great ride). And knowing how difficult tubeless installation was on the DA wheels, I spent that entire season very much paranoid that I'd be stranded on the roadside if I did suffer a gash or other trauma too big for a little sealant. In the end, I was really relieved when I switched back to a tubed set up. If tires/wheels have improved to allow easier installation I might reconsider, but that was an experience I'm in no hurry to revisit.

Originally Posted by leob1 View Post
I been thinking about 'up grading' the wheels on my road bike to a tubeless set up. But the curmudgeon in my says that tube work fine so why go through the time and expense setting up to tubeless. Wheels and tires are tubeless ready.
So, what is the benefit of going tubeless; better ride? less flats? less maintenance? Is it worth it?
Your thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 05-24-21, 12:33 PM
  #48  
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Set up my most recent bike tubeless, after much hemming and hawing. I'd read about all the problems people had encountered with tubeless.

So far so good. I'm running the tires about 15 psi lower than I would otherwise. I've got over 1300 miles on it with no punctures. Installation was easy, inflated using a regular track pump, although it took me a couple of tries to get one of the valves to seat correctly. I recognize there's a certain amount of luck in getting a tire/rim combo that plays nice together.

I carry a couple of tubes, a boot, and a Dynaplug in case I get a puncture the sealant can't handle. I'm going to set up my commuter tubeless as well, when I eventually start commuting again.
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Old 05-24-21, 01:50 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
About the assertion that tubeless is better because of fewer flats:

1. Isn't that because everyone uses sealant in their tubeless tires?

2. Wouldn't using sealant in a tubed tire provide the same flat prevention benefit?

Apples to apples.
Well you could use slime filled tubes to get the puncture resistance. They are a thing, although pretty heavy. So then you might as well just get rid of the tube and run tubeless with sealant.
Not saying tubeless is night and day better, but you do get less flats (I presume you don't actually run slime filled tubes) and you can safely run lower pressures. If those benefits don't interest you much then stick with tubes.
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Old 05-24-21, 01:53 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by adamrice View Post

I carry a couple of tubes, a boot, and a Dynaplug in case I get a puncture the sealant can't handle.
I do the same. It comes to the point eventually where you actually want to get a puncture just so you can feel it was worthwhile carrying that kit around! I'm still waiting to try my Dynaplug
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