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I Said I Would Never EVER Buy An E-Bike...but

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I Said I Would Never EVER Buy An E-Bike...but

Old 08-03-21, 05:48 AM
  #276  
KPREN
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Originally Posted by CAT7RDR View Post
We have a different vision of what is best for us. No problemo. Best of luck on your journeys.
II am only responding because you used the word best instead of the word fun. When I got an e bike I could not justify it totally in my mind. e bikes were cheating, e bikes were avoiding good exercise, e bikes were heavier than dog snot and were expensive. On top of that, I had a Specialized S works full suspension carbon Stump Jumper that cost more than that heavy e bike. I was firmly in the no category.
I built an e bike for my disabled wife so she could keep riding. In debugging the e bike I became hooked. An e bike was certainly not best for me. The e bike was an order of magnitude more fun. It enhanced everything that was fun about a bicycle big time. So what did I do? I set about rationalizing an e bike trying to deny what is best for me. First rationalization, I wanted a fat bike for snow, mud and sand but figured I could not pedal it enough to enjoy it. I was already having some over exertion issues on the Stumpy. Yeah, that was it. It's not cheating if I truly need it right. After all, what is best? Our ideas of best come from years of listening to experts and our bodies. We get into a rut but I am here to tell you that many of the "so called" expert consensus opinions over the years have turned out to be just bunk and I no longer trust consensus opinion like I once did.
Five years ago there was nothing I liked on the commercial market. I was a weight weenie and the bikes were very heavy and had low end components and they were not very refined. I bought a titanium fat bike and converted it to an e bike. God that bike is fun and I went around apologizing for cheating. My strength level dropped a little bit but my overall fitness level was actually higher. I felt better. That could be attitude and attitude is perhaps the biggest single factor in longevity. The damned bike was just a ton more fun for me. That cheater e bike put the biggest smile on my face.
Five years later I realize that I should never have tried to justify the e bike based on cost, weight and fitness. I could justify the e bike entirely on the fun factor alone. My attitude was better and I am riding five times a as much as I was.
The e bike has gotten heavier and more capable. I wanted to take more with me including the dog. Biking became less about single track and more about overall enjoying all aspects of biking. Rides became considerably longer and camping gear entered the picture after a 40 year absence.
The next few days are beautiful. The bike is loaded up to around the 170 lb mark with the trailer and camping gear. I am taking the dog for an overnighter. My camp site for the night is not to far, only 48 miles. I will enjoy the lake and cooking over the fire with a brew. I will not be too tired to enjoy the finer aspects of the life. Camping is once again part of the experience and fun. Yes it took a change in attitude and dropping the colorful adjective words to describe all the camping gear.
No question about it. I still could not really justify the e bike based on best. I can entirely justify the e bike based on the big smile on my face. The e bike is fun on steroids and I no longer feel one damned bit cheated. Gotta get moving, fun is awaiting. I have the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route in my sights on the e bike.
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Old 08-09-21, 06:03 PM
  #277  
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Just had a look at that map. Now that will be some "adventure", good luck!
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Old 08-10-21, 12:03 PM
  #278  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
This is what the dictionary says:-

Bicycle: A vehicle consisting of two wheels held in a frame one behind the other, propelled by pedals and steered with handlebars attached to the front wheel.

Motorcycle: A two-wheeled vehicle that is powered by a motor and has no pedals.

E-bike: A bike that can be powered by electricity as well as propelled by pedals

As this thread has certainly demonstrated, the generic term E-bike covers an extremely wide range of applications. At one end of the spectrum we have relatively low powered lightweight e-bikes that are still mostly propelled by pedalling with a proportional motor assist. While at the other end of the spectrum we have powerful heavyweight e-bikes with throttles and pedals with high levels of non-proportional assist. Plus about a 100 shades of grey in-between.
There is a sub-category for e-bikes:
e-bike has pedals and a throttle
pedelec has pedals and no throttle, usually limited to 250W and 20 mph(USA) assist
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Old 08-10-21, 03:48 PM
  #279  
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I have never heard of pedelec
interesting since most of what I consider ebikes would fall into that category
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Old 08-10-21, 04:25 PM
  #280  
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Originally Posted by Artmo View Post
There is a sub-category for e-bikes:
e-bike has pedals and a throttle
pedelec has pedals and no throttle, usually limited to 250W and 20 mph(USA) assist
It looks like you have different definitions of what an "e-bike" actually is over in the US compared to Europe/UK
e-bikes marketed over here are what you would call "pedelecs" but limited to 15 mph assist.

So it makes it a confusing situation as proven by this thread! People are talking about completely different types of bike and the term "e-bike" is way too generic.
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Old 08-11-21, 10:12 AM
  #281  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
It looks like you have different definitions of what an "e-bike" actually is over in the US compared to Europe/UK
e-bikes marketed over here are what you would call "pedelecs" but limited to 15 mph assist.

So it makes it a confusing situation as proven by this thread! People are talking about completely different types of bike and the term "e-bike" is way too generic.

I agree.
I have ebikes (pedelec) in the UK and here in Florida. I do think the Euro/UK 15.5 mph limit is too low. Our group rides at 16-19 mph, which is tough going for us oldies, which is why we have the US Cytronex C1 over here on a solo and on our tandem. In the UK, around Brighton we don't ride in a group when we are over there, so 15.5 suits us, but for roadies, it would be a drawback.
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Old 08-11-21, 10:53 AM
  #282  
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Originally Posted by KPREN View Post
II am only responding because you used the word best instead of the word fun.
This all comes down to what is "fun" to different people. Cycling, like fun, means different things to different people in different measures. This article describes it pretty well:

https://www.rei.com/blog/climb/fun-scale

Some people are into Type I fun, some are into Type II fun, and some are into both. I kinda straddle the line, sometimes in the Type I category and sometimes in the Type II. Ebikes may be a better choice for Type I fun, but less so for Type II fun.

The older I get the less Type II appeals to me, so maybe someday if another crash doesn't take me out first. More than likely, the first experience will be using one on a bike tour so my SO (not so fond of Type II fun) can come along.
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Old 08-13-21, 07:55 AM
  #283  
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Originally Posted by Artmo View Post
I agree.
I have ebikes (pedelec) in the UK and here in Florida. I do think the Euro/UK 15.5 mph limit is too low. Our group rides at 16-19 mph, which is tough going for us oldies, which is why we have the US Cytronex C1 over here on a solo and on our tandem. In the UK, around Brighton we don't ride in a group when we are over there, so 15.5 suits us, but for roadies, it would be a drawback.
That's a very good point about the 15.5 mph assist limit in faster group road rides. It's okay for someone who just needs an extra boost up the climbs, but I can see the problem for a long group ride on flat terrain!
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Old 08-15-21, 08:03 PM
  #284  
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The Custer/Gallatin National Forest appears to have a definite opinion.


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Old 07-25-22, 10:40 AM
  #285  
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Originally Posted by Kabuki12 View Post
I am 66 , soon to be 67 and going strong. Not super fast but pretty strong and I ride a lot. My wife cannot ride a conventional bike any longer. She has health issues that limit her exertion ability . She got a cheapie ebike a few years ago and would occasionally ride with me. It had a throttle but she always pedaled when using it. At Christmas I bought he a Townie Go with a mid drive Bosch system and no throttle. She sets the mode on the bar mount control and easily keeps up with me and passes me on climbs. This bike has a Shimano internal shift hub instead of a derailleur and you have to pedal to get the assist, she loves it and is riding more frequently now. Sometimes she rides 15 or more miles on her own. She has lost weight but more importantly, she is happy .
Bravo!
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Old 07-25-22, 01:42 PM
  #286  
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I love how the OP blames his wife for getting him into ebikes. This is a very common theme. Itís just a justification for getting a motorcycle. Why canít people just accept that as you get older you ride slower. But riding becomes more important to your physical and mental health. Twisting the throttle to get up that hill you used to pound up doesnít mean squat. I have changed my favorite routes and enjoy the ride. Except when itís swarmed by ebikers speeding along.
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Old 07-25-22, 02:02 PM
  #287  
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Originally Posted by Chuck M View Post
I can damn sure say I do not want an E-Bike. But I will also admit when the time comes if that is what I have to do to keep enjoying riding, I'll get an E-Bike.

But the most important thing here is you did this so you can keep enjoying something you love with someone you love and there is not a thing wrong with that.
Yup. Same boat, for me. I'm slowing, and old injuries are catching up. Next bike likely will be an eBike. Simply can't easily make it up the hills, anymore. The recent refurb to get much lower gearing has helped, but at some point it'll not be enough. At which point ...
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Old 07-25-22, 02:15 PM
  #288  
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Originally Posted by Joe Bikerider View Post
I love how the OP blames his wife for getting him into ebikes. This is a very common theme. Itís just a justification for getting a motorcycle. Why canít people just accept that as you get older you ride slower. But riding becomes more important to your physical and mental health. Twisting the throttle to get up that hill you used to pound up doesnít mean squat. I have changed my favorite routes and enjoy the ride. Except when itís swarmed by ebikers speeding along.
Yup. Totally agree with this.

I'm 50 now but ride with some folks in their 60's. They are still strong riders. Had they went the e-bike route they wouldn't be.
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Old 07-25-22, 04:12 PM
  #289  
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Not for me Ö at least not yet. But when the time comes, Iím glad the option is there.
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Old 07-25-22, 05:01 PM
  #290  
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Originally Posted by Joe Bikerider View Post
I love how the OP blames his wife for getting him into ebikes. This is a very common theme. Itís just a justification for getting a motorcycle. Why canít people just accept that as you get older you ride slower. But riding becomes more important to your physical and mental health. Twisting the throttle to get up that hill you used to pound up doesnít mean squat. I have changed my favorite routes and enjoy the ride. Except when itís swarmed by ebikers speeding along.
I didn't take that from the OP at all. He simply wishes to continue riding with his wife and the purchase of an e-bike for her allows them to continue doing something they enjoy together.
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Old 07-25-22, 07:34 PM
  #291  
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I don’t have a “real” E-bike, but I have a Panasonic power-assist bike. In Japan it’s called the “Gyutto Annys” which is Japanese-Italian which is supposed to sound European. It has a kid’s seat on the back, and a basket on the front. I got it for my wife to run errand and shuttle our daughter around, by I probably use it more than she does. It’s very heavy, and very rugged, but can climb pretty much anything while carrying a kid on the back and a load of groceries on the front.

When I bought it about 6 years ago it cost 120,000 yen, or a about $1100 at the time. So far it has been a durable and reliable bike, they only issue is battery durability. The original battery last about 40% as long as it used to. A replacement battery costs about $300, and I’m probably going to have to get another one soon.
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Old 07-26-22, 09:04 AM
  #292  
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At 77 and still riding RAMROD (on the 28th), I don't think I'll ever get an ebike. OTOH, I can see a future where we only ride non-ebikes for sport and for everything else, we ride ebikes rather than use automobiles. They make so much sense for transportation.

I've ridden with several ebike riders who try hard to exactly match a road bike for performance, One wouldn't know they were on an ebike by watching their performance. OTOH, there are ebike riders who ride for ego and are a total PITA to ride anywhere near. I can't even drop them to get rid of them except by descending fast but they'll be right back and I'll have to pass them again and again.
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Old 07-26-22, 10:08 AM
  #293  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
They make so much sense for transportation.
If you live in a warm climate year round they do.

Those of us that have to deal with below zero temps, driving rains in 50 mph winds,5-6 ft. of snow every winter...they make zero sense.
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Old 07-26-22, 10:43 AM
  #294  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
If you live in a warm climate year round they do.

Those of us that have to deal with below zero temps, driving rains in 50 mph winds,5-6 ft. of snow every winter...they make zero sense.
Lotsa stuff is gonna change. It'll be interesting. Luckily, I won't be here to see it.

Depends. I had an employee who rode his bike to work year 'round in Fairbanks. I grew up there, so I knew what that was about. Doesn't blow 50 though. We have a whole subforum, Winter Cycling. I used to ride year-round in the PNW. Figured once I turned 70, I don't need to do that anymore.
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Old 07-26-22, 05:29 PM
  #295  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
If you live in a warm climate year round they do.

Those of us that have to deal with below zero temps, driving rains in 50 mph winds,5-6 ft. of snow every winter...they make zero sense.
we don't have snow but I have ridden below zero in rain way too much and winds, 33 and rain on Christmas eve morning

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Old 07-26-22, 11:38 PM
  #296  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
That's a very good point about the 15.5 mph assist limit in faster group road rides. It's okay for someone who just needs an extra boost up the climbs, but I can see the problem for a long group ride on flat terrain!

The problem for roadies in Europe wanting e-bikes is that the rules limiting assist are mainly aimed at preventing accidents in cities where cycling is the most common form of transport; Amsterdam, etc.

The relatively low assist kinda works for e-MTB and it means a safer environment for commuters in dense cycling traffic but, yes, sports cyclists on the road are somewhat limited. However, they are in the minority by some margin so unlikely to sway change.

It wouldn't take too much more assist for some European countries to require specific licensing etc for e-bikes and restrictions that would take them out of cycle lanes. So it is the speed limitations of cycle lanes in countries with excellent cycling infrastructure that is dictating those low assists - to safe guard the commuters.


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Old 07-27-22, 08:34 AM
  #297  
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Originally Posted by fooferdoggie View Post
we don't have snow but I have ridden below zero in rain way too much and winds, 33 and rain on Christmas eve morning


Yup. Looks miserable.

Definitely not going to do something like that for going to and from work or making a run to the store.

I fat bike in the winter months but cut myself off when temp gets below 15 degrees.
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Old 07-27-22, 01:13 PM
  #298  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Yup. Looks miserable.

Definitely not going to do something like that for going to and from work or making a run to the store.

I fat bike in the winter months but cut myself off when temp gets below 15 degrees.
I have it down to a art and its just inconvenient.
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Old 07-27-22, 02:34 PM
  #299  
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The way I see it, e-bikes are what mopeds always wished they could be - some at least you can run around under your own power and turn on the assist when your legs run out. Others can merely supplement what you put in. As long as nobody pretends that an e-bike is in the same class as a regular bike and starts 'racing' them, I don't have a problem with them at all. They're not for me yet, but ya never know...
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Old 07-27-22, 06:10 PM
  #300  
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I wouldn't mind having an e-bike rider pace me up a hill,

or let me draft them along a flat section,

or give me a lead-out before a sprint.

...

In fact, I've experienced all three situations.
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