I Said I Would Never EVER Buy An E-Bike...but
07-27-22, 06:44 PM
#301
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 21,947
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6140 Post(s)
Liked 6,106 Times
in
3,080 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse
I wouldn't mind having an e-bike rider pace me up a hill,
or let me draft them along a flat section,
or give me a lead-out before a sprint.
...
In fact, I've experienced all three situations.
or let me draft them along a flat section,
or give me a lead-out before a sprint.
...
In fact, I've experienced all three situations.
One day on a steep climb I was struggling more than usual and a friend who has one of those monster Trek cruiser looking things came up and pushed me for a while. It made my back hurt, I think because they way I had to twist against the torque.
I've had riders on regular bikes push me before and even had a guy on foot push me on Balcom Canyon during the ATOC and never had that pain.
Hey! Maybe I should get an e-bike?
Likes For big john:
07-28-22, 09:08 AM
#302
climber has-been
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 5,444
Bikes: Scott Addict R1
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1927 Post(s)
Liked 1,852 Times
in
971 Posts
Originally Posted by big john
Hey! Maybe I should get an e-bike?
Hopefully, that day is many years away.
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat
Ride, Rest, Repeat
Likes For terrymorse:
07-28-22, 09:28 AM
#303
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 21,947
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6140 Post(s)
Liked 6,106 Times
in
3,080 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse
The only personal reason I can think of for an e-bike is when age has made me so slow that I can't keep up with my ride buddies.
Hopefully, that day is many years away.
Hopefully, that day is many years away.
If I had a motor I probably could have stayed near the front, but is that what I want to do? I don't know. If I could just get 10 years younger....
07-28-22, 10:04 AM
#304
climber has-been
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 5,444
Bikes: Scott Addict R1
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1927 Post(s)
Liked 1,852 Times
in
971 Posts
Originally Posted by big john
If I could just get 10 years younger....
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat
Ride, Rest, Repeat
07-31-22, 08:38 AM
#305
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,951
Bikes: 82 Medici, 2011 Richard Sachs, 2011 Milwaukee Road
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1575 Post(s)
Liked 1,264 Times
in
753 Posts
Ebikes are not bicycles and there is a sub forum for discussion of this mode of recreation/transportation. Imagine a person that doesn't have the stamina or strength to climb Mt. Whitney, so they get to use a small, treaded, one person tractor so that they can get up the hill. Or how about an old fisherman who no longer can cast his flyrod due to old worn-out shoulders and bad eyes so he can't see the end of his fly line so he is allowed to use bait on fly only catch and release water. Sheeshe!!!! That 50+ is an acceptable place to normalize motor bike -- bicycle equivalence is pretty gross.
__________________
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
Likes For Classtime:
07-31-22, 07:09 PM
#306
Full Member
Originally Posted by Papa Tom
I am saddened to watch young people zipping by on the bike path, thumbs fully engaging the throttle while holding a phone to their face in the other hand. I feel like they are missing out on the thrill and exhilaration of getting from Point A to point B on their own pedal power, and I resent that they seem to be looking down on me and my old-fashioned pedal bike as they leave me in the dust on trails I've been riding since before they were born.
07-31-22, 07:31 PM
#307
Full Member
Originally Posted by 350htrr
Sounds like small watt numbers of assist, at first glance... But, on my average rides when I ride 100Km+ I use 420 watts/100Km= 4.2 watts per Km, 7 watts /mile. Those numbers should tell you something about how much assist you are "actually" using compared to an 350 watt E-Assist bicycle... 
medium load grades up to 20%
Rolling resistance over 400 watts.
08-01-22, 07:54 AM
#308
Full Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 411
Bikes: Kona Dew, Gary Fisher Paragon, Salsa Campeon
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times
in
51 Posts
ebikes have pushed me off the MU trails and on to single track. Im sure they are there too but not as much. Push bikes are indeed an exercise machine. Ive never felt better since giving up beer and pushing myself hard with my all arounder....
Last edited by boozergut; 08-01-22 at 08:01 AM.
Likes For boozergut:
08-01-22, 05:23 PM
#309
Jazz Aficionado
Bought a Class 2/3 for the girlfriend at the house here in Denver, she always wanted to ride with me and even my quickly approaching seventy, on my Waterford RS33 Campy Record, there’s no way she could keep up on her conventional bike. NOW… she blows past me, especially on the uphill pulls! I flashed the Class 3 speed setting to her bike and she’s grinning from ear to ear. Having been riding motorcycles my whole life, the EBike is a kin to them. I prefer the endorphins workouts… she likes the speed and ability to ride with me. Enjoy whatever floats your boat! 😉
08-03-22, 09:03 PM
#310
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,085
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 48 Times
in
39 Posts
Haven’t followed all the thread but my $.02 after living in a very hilly rural area after converting my bike to midrive is that I love it. The conversion coincided with losing lots of weight so I can ride up some of the hills I could not before on my other bikes and if I want to zip around to do chores or go to town I can. The Bafang BBSHD does make the bike more like a 1 1/2 hp motorcycle than an assisted bicycle.
08-06-22, 02:24 PM
#311
It's MY mountain
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 9,772
Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3829 Post(s)
Liked 2,308 Times
in
1,248 Posts
I've been hearing that the automotive industry is dropping large investment money into eBike designs.
So on one hand, lots of money buys creativity and novel solutions.
On the other hand, what do car companies know about bikes?
And on the third hand, I predict a lot of new regulations to account for all the new types of eBike products that walk the line between bikes and motor vehicles.
So on one hand, lots of money buys creativity and novel solutions.
On the other hand, what do car companies know about bikes?
And on the third hand, I predict a lot of new regulations to account for all the new types of eBike products that walk the line between bikes and motor vehicles.
Likes For DiabloScott:
08-07-22, 08:23 AM
#312
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 21,947
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6140 Post(s)
Liked 6,106 Times
in
3,080 Posts
Originally Posted by DiabloScott
I've been hearing that the automotive industry is dropping large investment money into eBike designs.
So on one hand, lots of money buys creativity and novel solutions.
On the other hand, what do car companies know about bikes?
And on the third hand, I predict a lot of new regulations to account for all the new types of eBike products that walk the line between bikes and motor vehicles.
So on one hand, lots of money buys creativity and novel solutions.
On the other hand, what do car companies know about bikes?
And on the third hand, I predict a lot of new regulations to account for all the new types of eBike products that walk the line between bikes and motor vehicles.
I worked at a Chevrolet dealer in the service dept. and was electric car certified in 2010. The technology advanced in the years before I retired and I'm sure it will keep advancing. Much of what was learned would be applicable to e-bikes and e-motorcycles.
08-07-22, 11:06 AM
#313
It's MY mountain
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 9,772
Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3829 Post(s)
Liked 2,308 Times
in
1,248 Posts
Originally Posted by big john
Much of what was learned would be applicable to e-bikes and e-motorcycles.
Frame angles and BB heights... not so much.
Likes For DiabloScott:
08-10-22, 02:55 PM
#314
Seat Sniffer
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,410
Bikes: Serotta Legend Ti; 2006 Schwinn Fastback Pro and 1996 Colnago Decor Super C96; 2003 Univega Alpina 700; 2000 Schwinn Super Sport
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 851 Post(s)
Liked 1,340 Times
in
418 Posts
Originally Posted by DiabloScott
I've been hearing that the automotive industry is dropping large investment money into eBike designs.
So on one hand, lots of money buys creativity and novel solutions.
On the other hand, what do car companies know about bikes?
And on the third hand, I predict a lot of new regulations to account for all the new types of eBike products that walk the line between bikes and motor vehicles.
So on one hand, lots of money buys creativity and novel solutions.
On the other hand, what do car companies know about bikes?
And on the third hand, I predict a lot of new regulations to account for all the new types of eBike products that walk the line between bikes and motor vehicles.
I love bicycles. They are elegant devices that are designed to be as efficient as possible with human motive energy, and that results in some really interesting engineering solutions. Carbon frames are extraordinarily stiff and can be fabricated into all manner of shapes that allow compliance in some directions and much less compliance in others. Wheels are designed to be extraordinarily lightweight, while very strong. And when it all comes together, you get a machine that is truly an engineering marvel, and makes the most of whatever energy a person can put into it.
Not so much with ebikes ... or at least most of them I see in my hood. There is really no point in making frames light ... just add more power to the motor and more capacity to the battery. Not a lot of point in making them both compliant in some direction and stiff in others ... just make them out of straight gauge steel, and add a padded seat or shocks. Some of the ones in my hood are really large mini bikes with electric motors and pedals added as an afterthought. And the companies making most of those ebikes are not bicycle companies ... so the bicycle companies are not really benefitting all that much from the sales of ebikes ... again, if the ones I see in my hood are any example.
The design tradeoffs are all askew when a motor is added to the mix. I guess that is just the way it is.
__________________
Proud parent of a happy inner child ...
Proud parent of a happy inner child ...
Likes For Biker395:
08-10-22, 06:57 PM
#315
please no more wind
Join Date: May 2021
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,401
Bikes: aethos, creo, vanmoof, public ...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 811 Post(s)
Liked 903 Times
in
489 Posts
Originally Posted by Biker395
Yea, I have to agree. And there is a part of me that doesn't much like that.
I love bicycles. They are elegant devices that are designed to be as efficient as possible with human motive energy, and that results in some really interesting engineering solutions. Carbon frames are extraordinarily stiff and can be fabricated into all manner of shapes that allow compliance in some directions and much less compliance in others. Wheels are designed to be extraordinarily lightweight, while very strong. And when it all comes together, you get a machine that is truly an engineering marvel, and makes the most of whatever energy a person can put into it.
Not so much with ebikes ... or at least most of them I see in my hood. There is really no point in making frames light ... just add more power to the motor and more capacity to the battery. Not a lot of point in making them both compliant in some direction and stiff in others ... just make them out of straight gauge steel, and add a padded seat or shocks. Some of the ones in my hood are really large mini bikes with electric motors and pedals added as an afterthought. And the companies making most of those ebikes are not bicycle companies ... so the bicycle companies are not really benefitting all that much from the sales of ebikes ... again, if the ones I see in my hood are any example.
The design tradeoffs are all askew when a motor is added to the mix. I guess that is just the way it is.
I love bicycles. They are elegant devices that are designed to be as efficient as possible with human motive energy, and that results in some really interesting engineering solutions. Carbon frames are extraordinarily stiff and can be fabricated into all manner of shapes that allow compliance in some directions and much less compliance in others. Wheels are designed to be extraordinarily lightweight, while very strong. And when it all comes together, you get a machine that is truly an engineering marvel, and makes the most of whatever energy a person can put into it.
Not so much with ebikes ... or at least most of them I see in my hood. There is really no point in making frames light ... just add more power to the motor and more capacity to the battery. Not a lot of point in making them both compliant in some direction and stiff in others ... just make them out of straight gauge steel, and add a padded seat or shocks. Some of the ones in my hood are really large mini bikes with electric motors and pedals added as an afterthought. And the companies making most of those ebikes are not bicycle companies ... so the bicycle companies are not really benefitting all that much from the sales of ebikes ... again, if the ones I see in my hood are any example.
The design tradeoffs are all askew when a motor is added to the mix. I guess that is just the way it is.
08-11-22, 04:40 PM
#316
Seat Sniffer
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,410
Bikes: Serotta Legend Ti; 2006 Schwinn Fastback Pro and 1996 Colnago Decor Super C96; 2003 Univega Alpina 700; 2000 Schwinn Super Sport
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 851 Post(s)
Liked 1,340 Times
in
418 Posts
Originally Posted by mschwett
there's no real reason other than cost that it has to be this way. you can add a motor and battery to bike with only 7 pounds of additional weight, with enough power to more than double the average cyclist's output for an hour or two.... or more reasonably, to double your output when you hit a big hill on your commute or recreational ride. IMO 250 watts is PLENTY for anything but a cargo bike, if you can put out 150w that lets you go 12+mph up the 6% grades which are typical of relatively modern north american roads.
Before ebikes, the improvement in bicycle technology was very hard fought, and truthfully, the gains obtained were small and only worth the cost and effort for people who were involved with racing. But that technology trickled down to less expensive models a little at a time, and we all benefitted. For example, consider road frames. Not so long ago, a road frame under 1Kg was rare, and now it is common place. It happened a little at a time, as manufacturers introduced new processes in the production of road bikes in their expensive frames ...cutting a little bit of weight off at a time. But is any of that relevant if you are adding 7 pounds of battery and/or motor? And if you want to make a bike faster or go for longer, you aren't going to focus on the frame or wheels ... there just isn't that much to be gained there anymore. You'll focus instead on a more efficient or more powerful motor or better battery capacity.
And all of that considers only those ebikes that are high quality road bikes modified to include a motor assist. I dunno about where you live, but where I live, those kind of ebikes are pretty rare. What I see (and overwhelmingly) are cargo bikes with cheap crappy frames and a pedal drivetrain added as an afterthought. Those are the bikes that are selling like hotcakes.
Maybe its better that way. I am one of those luddites who think that a lot of the "improvements" in bicycle technology as of late really aren't so wonderful anyway. But one thing for sure, ebikes are going to fundamentally change the industry. They will inevitably direct the focus away from elegant efficiency and more in the direction of motor and battery improvements. And a lot of old skool bicycle stalwart companies are going to be overwhelmed.
__________________
Proud parent of a happy inner child ...
Proud parent of a happy inner child ...
08-24-22, 06:50 AM
#317
Newbie
E-bike? Not likely.
Perhaps, when I can no longer pedal my Catrike Expedition 5 miles at 5 MPH on flat ground, but certainly not before that.
Likes For soloman:
08-24-22, 08:31 AM
#318
Let's do a Century
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,312
Bikes: Cervelo R3 Disc, Pinarello Prince/Campy SR; Cervelo R3/Sram Red; Trek 5900/Duraace, Lynskey GR260 Ultegra
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 648 Post(s)
Liked 877 Times
in
407 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse
The only personal reason I can think of for an e-bike is when age has made me so slow that I can't keep up with my ride buddies.
Hopefully, that day is many years away.
Hopefully, that day is many years away.
I don’t have any issue riding solo so that’s probably the direction I’d go before spending dollars for another bike.
__________________
Ride your Ride!!
Ride your Ride!!
08-24-22, 09:06 AM
#319
Full Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 459
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Liked 103 Times
in
53 Posts
Originally Posted by soloman
Perhaps, when I can no longer pedal my Catrike Expedition 5 miles at 5 MPH on flat ground, but certainly not before that.
08-26-22, 02:58 PM
#320
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,951
Bikes: 82 Medici, 2011 Richard Sachs, 2011 Milwaukee Road
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1575 Post(s)
Liked 1,264 Times
in
753 Posts
Of course -- a trike! That didn't occur to me. I don't need a motor on my bike. I only need a third wheel when I become too slow to ride my current bike.
__________________
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
08-26-22, 04:16 PM
#321
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 145
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked 42 Times
in
25 Posts
Originally Posted by Papa Tom
I am 58 and still a very enthusiastic rider. My wife is a little older, grew up in the city (without a bike), and never really had the passion to build up the muscles needed to bicycle into old age. But I still love to ride with her and she really enjoys easy, short, flat rides in the fresh air. However, her ability to tackle even minor hills has significantly deteriorated in recent years.
When someone suggested we her get her an e-bike, I immediately got up on my high-horse, ripped this person a new butthole, and declared that I would never even CONSIDER such blasphemy. After all, bicycling means applying absolutely nothing but one's personal energy to propel a two-wheeled vehicle forward. Anything else is called MOTORcycling.
Tonight, I broke down and bought her an Aventon Pace 350, one of the most basic e-bikes on the market. I don't want to get into a debate about whether e-bikes have any right to exist, but for the sake of anyone on this group who might be sensing their riding days coming to an end, I want to suggest that, with one of these pedal-assist bicycles, you can count on being able to ride until the day you drop dead.
Until today, I wouldn't even LOOK at anything but a "real" bicycle; but when I hopped on this baby, turned the pedals half-a-revolution, and felt the motor take over, I decided right then and there that I will never again worry about growing too old to enjoy my long day rides and overnight trips. Even the type of hill that would render a route completely off-limits for her feels like nothing at all on this bike - and that's with only the minimal level of pedal-assist. Soon, SHE will be waiting for ME at the top of each climb!
For now, having one e-bike in the family means I can take my wife along to explore the places I used to just come home and talk about. But in the far-off future, having a second one for myself is going to make growing old much more palatable. So have no fear, my old folk comrades! The e-bike is your friend!
When someone suggested we her get her an e-bike, I immediately got up on my high-horse, ripped this person a new butthole, and declared that I would never even CONSIDER such blasphemy. After all, bicycling means applying absolutely nothing but one's personal energy to propel a two-wheeled vehicle forward. Anything else is called MOTORcycling.
Tonight, I broke down and bought her an Aventon Pace 350, one of the most basic e-bikes on the market. I don't want to get into a debate about whether e-bikes have any right to exist, but for the sake of anyone on this group who might be sensing their riding days coming to an end, I want to suggest that, with one of these pedal-assist bicycles, you can count on being able to ride until the day you drop dead.
Until today, I wouldn't even LOOK at anything but a "real" bicycle; but when I hopped on this baby, turned the pedals half-a-revolution, and felt the motor take over, I decided right then and there that I will never again worry about growing too old to enjoy my long day rides and overnight trips. Even the type of hill that would render a route completely off-limits for her feels like nothing at all on this bike - and that's with only the minimal level of pedal-assist. Soon, SHE will be waiting for ME at the top of each climb!
For now, having one e-bike in the family means I can take my wife along to explore the places I used to just come home and talk about. But in the far-off future, having a second one for myself is going to make growing old much more palatable. So have no fear, my old folk comrades! The e-bike is your friend!
08-26-22, 06:10 PM
#322
Newbie
Originally Posted by Classtime
Of course -- a trike! That didn't occur to me. I don't need a motor on my bike. I only need a third wheel when I become too slow to ride my current bike.
Likes For soloman:
