Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Fifty Plus (50+)
Reload this Page >

Lungs and heart

Notices
Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

Lungs and heart

Old 09-13-21, 03:57 PM
  #1  
thehammerdog
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
thehammerdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NWNJ
Posts: 3,663

Bikes: Road bike is a Carbon Bianchi C2C & Grandis (1980's), Gary Fisher Mt Bike, Trek Tandem & Mongoose SS MTB circa 1992.

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 706 Post(s)
Liked 322 Times in 210 Posts
Lungs and heart

im 55 good shape little fat but ok fitness. i find early in my rides going hard is limited by lungs for 1st 5 miles or so.
become breathless...but warmed up its the leggs that go 1st
whats behind this...any ideas.
after good warm up 6 miles then it all works but its the leggs that limit
thehammerdog is offline  
Old 09-13-21, 04:10 PM
  #2  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 27,320

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 107 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4536 Post(s)
Liked 2,169 Times in 1,481 Posts
Originally Posted by thehammerdog View Post
im 55 good shape little fat but ok fitness. i find early in my rides going hard is limited by lungs for 1st 5 miles or so.
become breathless...but warmed up its the leggs that go 1st
whats behind this...any ideas.
after good warm up 6 miles then it all works but its the leggs that limit
dunno but on my way home saw a young boy, maybe 8-10 yrs old. climbing a long grade standing. he was going gang busters the whole way. I know if I tried for as long as he was doing it, I would have had a heart attack for sure. age isn't just a number
rumrunn6 is offline  
Likes For rumrunn6:
Old 09-13-21, 04:43 PM
  #3  
big john
Senior Member
 
big john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 19,296
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4428 Post(s)
Liked 3,825 Times in 2,064 Posts
Sounds kinda normal.
big john is offline  
Old 09-13-21, 05:04 PM
  #4  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,702

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2875 Post(s)
Liked 2,866 Times in 1,321 Posts
For me, the harder the effort, the longer my warmup needs to be.
caloso is offline  
Likes For caloso:
Old 09-13-21, 05:23 PM
  #5  
thehammerdog
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
thehammerdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NWNJ
Posts: 3,663

Bikes: Road bike is a Carbon Bianchi C2C & Grandis (1980's), Gary Fisher Mt Bike, Trek Tandem & Mongoose SS MTB circa 1992.

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 706 Post(s)
Liked 322 Times in 210 Posts
Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
dunno but on my way home saw a young boy, maybe 8-10 yrs old. climbing a long grade standing. he was going gang busters the whole way. I know if I tried for as long as he was doing it, I would have had a heart attack for sure. age isn't just a number
you know it in my 30's could hold 170bpm all day trained with HR...now 150 i wanna die....
thehammerdog is offline  
Likes For thehammerdog:
Old 09-13-21, 06:09 PM
  #6  
downtube42
Senior Member
 
downtube42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,214

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Volae Team, Focus Mares AL, Nimbus MUni, Trek Roscoe 6.

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 633 Post(s)
Liked 1,406 Times in 713 Posts
Ride more, you'll go faster and/or further.

Other than that... that's cycling.
downtube42 is offline  
Likes For downtube42:
Old 09-13-21, 06:49 PM
  #7  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 18,336

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3340 Post(s)
Liked 1,281 Times in 942 Posts
Normal. Your blood vessels become more flexible as you warm up and can then carry more blood. You can speed the process some by doing a couple lowish gear spinups to high rpm and then a couple of hard 1 minute intervals. That'll release the chemicals which help circulation. Legs getting more tired than lungs after warmup means you're using too big a gear.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Likes For Carbonfiberboy:
Old 09-13-21, 09:13 PM
  #8  
Jumpski
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Pine Tree State - Maine, Thailand
Posts: 209

Bikes: Bianchi Infinito CV, Trek X- CAL 29er HT

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked 52 Times in 34 Posts
[QUOTE=
after good warm up 6 miles then it all works but its the leggs that limit[/QUOTE]

The warm up is key- have fun.
Jumpski is offline  
Likes For Jumpski:
Old 09-14-21, 05:56 AM
  #9  
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,012

Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1165 Post(s)
Liked 705 Times in 496 Posts
Warmup is indeed key. For me, every eastbound or northbound ride starts with a hill climb. Southbound rides start with more than a mile of level ground, which facilitates a decent warmup. (I can't go more than about 1 km to the west without getting very wet. ) I have learned over the years to use a very low gear and to take that initial cold start climb at an embarrassingly slow pace, which makes all the difference. If I start out too fast up the hill, it takes me at least another 15 minutes to catch up to where I would be following a more gradual start. Warmup is everything!
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Old 09-14-21, 07:32 AM
  #10  
Chuckles1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Foothills of West Central Maine
Posts: 379

Bikes: 2007 Motobecane Fantom Cross Expert, 2020 Motobecane Omni Strada Pro Disc (700c gravel bike), 2021 Motobecane Elite Adventure with Bafang 500W rear hub drive

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 134 Times in 86 Posts
I feel that way every spring on the first half dozen rides. Don't overdo it at first; you'll likely forget about it after a while, but you do have to push through some pain.
Chuckles1 is offline  
Likes For Chuckles1:
Old 09-14-21, 08:11 AM
  #11  
Flip Flop Rider
Senior Member
 
Flip Flop Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 2,036

Bikes: 2010 Fuji Absolute 3.0 1994 Trek 850

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 731 Post(s)
Liked 512 Times in 296 Posts
start slow, ease into it. No reason to go full gas right from the start
Flip Flop Rider is offline  
Likes For Flip Flop Rider:
Old 09-14-21, 08:24 AM
  #12  
prj71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 3,646
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2166 Post(s)
Liked 679 Times in 453 Posts
Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
start slow, ease into it. No reason to go full gas right from the start
Unless you are in a race.
prj71 is offline  
Old 09-14-21, 08:47 AM
  #13  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 27,320

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 107 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4536 Post(s)
Liked 2,169 Times in 1,481 Posts
Originally Posted by Chuckles1 View Post
I feel that way every spring
was gonna suggest you ride thru the winter, then checked your location ... ;-)
rumrunn6 is offline  
Old 09-14-21, 11:04 AM
  #14  
Iride01
MotuekaCascadeChinook
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 10,616

Bikes: '20 Tarmac Disc Comp '78 Raleigh Competition GS

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4289 Post(s)
Liked 2,839 Times in 1,977 Posts
My lungs always seemed to be the most limiting thing for my performance. And it stands to reason since they get CO2 out and O2 into your bloodstream so the muscles can use it.

It's been a 10 year process, but I don't feel as limited by my lungs as I once did. Though they are still probably the thing that limits me most. It's just that I've trained my legs and the rest of me to deal with their limitations. But.... it takes time.

Deep breathes anytime you think about breathing on or off the bike. If you cough after taking several deep breaths, then you need to work on that. I too used to cough after a really deep breath or two. Now I can breath deep and fast for a long time without wanting or needing to cough.

I read that pro cyclist have a very fast respiration rate on the bike. Somewhere on the order of 60 breathes per minute. But I only saw that once. Don't know if I was mistaken nor have I searched further for more info. Anyone else know about that?
Iride01 is offline  
Likes For Iride01:
Old 09-14-21, 12:09 PM
  #15  
Rdmonster69
Shawn of the Dead
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 524
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 255 Post(s)
Liked 413 Times in 199 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post

I read that pro cyclist have a very fast respiration rate on the bike. Somewhere on the order of 60 breathes per minute. But I only saw that once. Don't know if I was mistaken nor have I searched further for more info. Anyone else know about that?
That is super interesting to me. I do pulmonary function testing for a living and would be interested to see how long a pro cyclist could keep up that respiratory rate. I would not think for very long. There are physiological limitations above and beyond muscular ability that would prevent a persons MVV (maximum voluntary ventilation) from being abnormally high. l I doubt (although am not sure) that they reach a muscular threshold when it comes to the maximum amount of air that the lung can move.How much higher than a regular Joe is the question.

As a pro cyclist is an elite endurance athlete they should be able to produce a higher MVV than a non elite endurance athlete for sure and would think that their ability to maintain a higher than average minute ventilation would be impressive. That being said a resp rate of 60 is very difficult to pull off. I would be surprised and impressed if even a pro cyclist could maintain that RR for very long. One thing that makes me think it is unlikely is the overall cardiovascular conditioning may render RR's that high unnecessary.

As I said before I could be totally wrong but taking a big breath of air every second for minutes on end is very taxing.
Rdmonster69 is offline  
Likes For Rdmonster69:
Old 09-14-21, 12:37 PM
  #16  
Iride01
MotuekaCascadeChinook
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 10,616

Bikes: '20 Tarmac Disc Comp '78 Raleigh Competition GS

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4289 Post(s)
Liked 2,839 Times in 1,977 Posts
Rdmonster69 Just to be clear, I might have misrepresented the article. It might be that it was only talking about certain short periods when on the bike. Or maybe something else entirely. However they were comparing that the average joe cyclist didn't have near the respiration rate of elite pro-cyclists. The main jist of the article was differences between pro's and us never-will-be-anything-like cyclists. Respiration was just a short mention in it that I recall.

Probably something I read on CyclingNews, CyclingWeekly or VeloNews. Early this year or sometime last year.
Iride01 is offline  
Old 09-14-21, 01:09 PM
  #17  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,221

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 195 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4386 Post(s)
Liked 2,419 Times in 1,569 Posts
I'd be surprised if elite level pro and amateur cyclists breathed in any unusual way unless they were at lactate threshold. I've seen pros chatting almost normally while riding at a pace that would leave me gasping for air and passing out within 5 minutes. And recently Mark Cavendish had a few choice rants for the TV motorcycle crews who were -- possibly deliberately -- influencing or rigging a race to provide a draft for favored riders. Cav was riding very fast to catch up yet still was able to loudly repeat the same complaints to any passing judge or cameraman passing on motorcycles and cars. He wasn't wrong. I was mostly impressed that he could speak loudly and fairly normally while riding so hard. I'd be on the verge of passing out from exertion.

From the perspective of the 50+ forum, I could come up with all kinds of reasons and excuses why I'm getting slower despite working harder to stay fit. But it all boils down to "I'm old, and getting older."

Yeah, I could wish for all kinds of things to delay the inevitable. I had hoped my window of opportunity to continue getting stronger and faster would remain open at least a crack until I reached 65. But, nope. I'm about to turn 64 and I've weakened and slowed dramatically this year after a few consecutive years of steady improvement after resuming cycling at age 57. In 2015 I was starting from nothing, extremely poor fitness, so I knew I could only improve for awhile. And I did... until this year. That window of opportunity closed last year and it won't get any better without PEDs.

That's just the reality of aging. It varies for different people and some folks may continue to improve or at least maintain measurable fitness awhile longer.
canklecat is offline  
Old 09-14-21, 01:23 PM
  #18  
Artmo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,625

Bikes: '06 Bianchi Pista; '57 Maclean; '10 Scott CR1 Pro; 2005 Trek 2000 Tandem; '09 Comotion Macchiato Tandem; 199? Novara Road; '17 Circe Helios e-tandem:1994 Trek 2300

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Liked 68 Times in 43 Posts
81, asthmatic. takes me at least 10 miles to be breathing easily
Artmo is offline  
Likes For Artmo:
Old 09-14-21, 01:50 PM
  #19  
Rdmonster69
Shawn of the Dead
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 524
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 255 Post(s)
Liked 413 Times in 199 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Rdmonster69 Just to be clear, I might have misrepresented the article. It might be that it was only talking about certain short periods when on the bike. Or maybe something else entirely. However they were comparing that the average joe cyclist didn't have near the respiration rate of elite pro-cyclists. The main jist of the article was differences between pro's and us never-will-be-anything-like cyclists. Respiration was just a short mention in it that I recall.

Probably something I read on CyclingNews, CyclingWeekly or VeloNews. Early this year or sometime last year.
No worries ..... I would be utterly shocked if a pro cyclist couldn't breathe deeper, harder and faster for a longer duration than normal humans. There real overwhelming advantage is the strength and efficiency of their circulatory system.. You have to breathe far less when your heart is able to deliver mass quantities of oxygenated blood. That's why I said it was really interesting and would be very curious as to the actual physiological make up of a pro cyclist.

Specifically I would love to see a full pulmonary study including
A. Lung volumes via Plethysmography.
B. Airway Resistance
C. Diffusing Capacity using the single breath carbon monoxide test
D. Slow Vital Capacity and Forced Vital Capacity
E. Maximum Inspiratory and Expiratory Pressure
F. Maximum Voluntary Ventilation

This set of tests would basically be a full battery of respiratory muscle strength as well as standard lung functions .I would think the RMS tests would be above normal and the standard functions would not be hugely different. This info may even be out there somewhere. As a clinician I would be most interested to seeing the RMS of an elite athlete is that much different than a regular human.
Rdmonster69 is offline  
Old 09-14-21, 03:30 PM
  #20  
Iride01
MotuekaCascadeChinook
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 10,616

Bikes: '20 Tarmac Disc Comp '78 Raleigh Competition GS

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4289 Post(s)
Liked 2,839 Times in 1,977 Posts
Originally Posted by Rdmonster69 View Post
No worries ..... I would be utterly shocked if a pro cyclist couldn't breathe deeper, harder and faster for a longer duration than normal humans. There real overwhelming advantage is the strength and efficiency of their circulatory system.. You have to breathe far less when your heart is able to deliver mass quantities of oxygenated blood. That's why I said it was really interesting and would be very curious as to the actual physiological make up of a pro cyclist.

Specifically I would love to see a full pulmonary study including
A. Lung volumes via Plethysmography.
B. Airway Resistance
C. Diffusing Capacity using the single breath carbon monoxide test
D. Slow Vital Capacity and Forced Vital Capacity
E. Maximum Inspiratory and Expiratory Pressure
F. Maximum Voluntary Ventilation

This set of tests would basically be a full battery of respiratory muscle strength as well as standard lung functions .I would think the RMS tests would be above normal and the standard functions would not be hugely different. This info may even be out there somewhere. As a clinician I would be most interested to seeing the RMS of an elite athlete is that much different than a regular human.
It's been quite a few years since I've read it, but seems like Phil Gaimon's book "Draft Animals" had some brief sentences through out describing some of the physiological (right word?) things they were tested for when looking at how well one pro compared to another. Most of the book was more an expose and some considered it a smear on certain cyclists. I found it quite interesting just for the info about the life of a average world pro as opposed to a pro that was high fame. He rode back in the days of Garmin Sharp and I think early Cannondale.

Getting back to breath rate, it just seems like HR. Once you have the volume maxed out then a faster rate gets you more. To how much it can contribute might be in the realm of marginal gains. But in racing marginal gains are a part of what makes a difference at the finish line.
Iride01 is offline  
Old 09-14-21, 04:36 PM
  #21  
andrewclaus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Golden, CO and Tucson, AZ
Posts: 2,459

Bikes: 2016 Fuji Tread, 1983 Trek 520

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 561 Post(s)
Liked 379 Times in 259 Posts
Check out the book "Breath" by James Nestor. I thought I knew how to breathe and have never had a breathing problem, but I learned quite a bit from that book.
andrewclaus is offline  
Old 09-14-21, 04:45 PM
  #22  
mercator
In the wind
 
mercator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Calgary AB
Posts: 1,322

Bikes: Giant TCR Advanced Team, Lemond Buenos Aires, Giant TCX, Miyata 1000LT

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 169 Post(s)
Liked 110 Times in 49 Posts
I had the same problem this spring. Climbing a hill I have ridden up for decades, I realized I was climbing like a fat old man.
So, I rode a lot this summer, lost 10 pounds and attacked the hill again last week.
At that point, I accepted that I ride like an old man, but now I'm slower on the downhills.
mercator is offline  
Likes For mercator:
Old 09-14-21, 06:05 PM
  #23  
Rdmonster69
Shawn of the Dead
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 524
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 255 Post(s)
Liked 413 Times in 199 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Getting back to breath rate, it just seems like HR. Once you have the volume maxed out then a faster rate gets you more. To how much it can contribute might be in the realm of marginal gains. But in racing marginal gains are a part of what makes a difference at the finish line.
I will have to check that book out. Would be helpful if a sports physiologist with a pulmonary background could chime in !!
Rdmonster69 is offline  
Old 09-14-21, 09:39 PM
  #24  
Wildwood
Veteran, Pacifist
 
Wildwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 11,867

Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?

Mentioned: 261 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3186 Post(s)
Liked 2,728 Times in 1,387 Posts
Wait til you hit 70 or 75 years.......!


It usually takes 4-5mi for my suspended leather saddles to get warmed up. By then I know if the joints are ready to go. Most routes have hills, and the last 2km of every ride is hard - up the hill to our neighborhood, with a 42/24, at the end of 50mi..

Last edited by Wildwood; 09-14-21 at 09:50 PM.
Wildwood is offline  
Old 09-15-21, 01:33 PM
  #25  
Flip Flop Rider
Senior Member
 
Flip Flop Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 2,036

Bikes: 2010 Fuji Absolute 3.0 1994 Trek 850

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 731 Post(s)
Liked 512 Times in 296 Posts
Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Unless you are in a race.
if racing wheel suck
Flip Flop Rider is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.