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Another "How much protein?" thread

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Another "How much protein?" thread

Old 10-23-21, 02:35 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
My 100 Mile Breakfast.
Where's the bacon?

My favorite pre-600Km breakfast is bullet proof coffee at 2 am driving to the start.
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Old 10-24-21, 03:01 PM
  #52  
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I try to eat healthy without obsessing about it. I alternate weights/resistance with bike for cardio, 45-75 miles a week. At 77, I weigh 5-6 pounds more than I did in high school. Most of that is muscle from working out for the last 45 years. I avoid processed food, red meat, alcohol, sugar. But not adverse to the occasional cheeseburger and a beer. Lots of whole grains, nuts, eggs, cheese, peanut butter, fresh fruit.
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Old 11-19-21, 10:46 AM
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With Vitamin D (which is actually a hormone) what matters is the blood level of the individual. In my case I need more than 5,000 IU daily to put my ng/ml above 25 or the low end of the range. How much you ingest is not important but rather how your own body processes it and how much is in your blood stream. Doctors tend to be incredibly ignorant of such matters and even the straw dog studies will look for reduction in bone fractures with the amount of vitamin D provided to a study group, and I have only seen one study where they bothered to check the ng/ml blood levels of participants. Certain cancers and heart diseases are more prevalent with people with low levels of vitamin D in their system and this is to be expected as it is a vital component for the functioning of the immune system (as is vitamin C).

Minimizing the intake of meat and milk and sugars and all the additives in factory foods as well as avoiding the BPA that is in all the food plastic packaging, including canned foods and beverages in a can, is a wise way to avoid ill health.
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Old 11-19-21, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
OK, so I'm 76 and still trying to do what I like to do and having some success. I also have one of those bathroom scales which uses impedance to give you numbers for percentages of fat, water, muscle, and weight of bone. I've been frustrated for years by my inability to increase my muscle percentage by more than one or two tenths of a percent. My tape measurements confirm this. I refuse to cut down on my real sports: cycling, hiking, and skiing. The gym is not my real sport. What to do?

I ran across this CTS blog post which got me interested in trying a much higher protein diet: https://trainright.com/masters-and-g...ning-mistakes/

My wife and I eat a modified Med diet, the modification being that we can't afford to eat that much wild caught fish. I weigh 70 kilos, so at 2g/kg/d that's 140g protein. I have no idea how much protein we get every day from our largely carb and veggie diet, but I have been supplementing with ~45g/day of whey protein for many years. The simplest thing was to increase that supplement to 120g/day of whey isolate with an extra 6g/day of leucine. I started doing that a little over a month ago, and with no change in my exercise program, I'm up 1.4% lean body mass and .67% body weight and don't have sore legs every day. The tape agrees. I'm like, "Really?? Decades of struggle and that's all it took?"

The issue and my issue seems to be that not everyone is equal in efficiency in moving protein into one's muscles, and aging considerably slows down that process. The data on this is confused because of a lack of folks like me for control and study groups. Here are some more links to protein studies:
https://examine.com/guides/protein-intake/
https://2doctricoaching.com/triathlo...sters-athletes
https://www.mysportscience.com/post/...older-athletes
https://trainright.com/protein-why-a...-right-amount/

If you're under 50, ignore. If you're over 50 and especially well over 50, it might be worth experimenting with. I'm using a chocolate flavored whey isolate which costs ~$5:50/lb. in 5 lb. containers.

As we can see by looking at our contemporaries who are not into our particular aging-bod experiment, sarcopenia is a real thing.
way less than u think...just eat. ride. rest.
enjoy
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Old 11-19-21, 09:11 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Calsun View Post
With Vitamin D (which is actually a hormone) what matters is the blood level of the individual. In my case I need more than 5,000 IU daily to put my ng/ml above 25 or the low end of the range. How much you ingest is not important but rather how your own body processes it and how much is in your blood stream. Doctors tend to be incredibly ignorant of such matters and even the straw dog studies will look for reduction in bone fractures with the amount of vitamin D provided to a study group, and I have only seen one study where they bothered to check the ng/ml blood levels of participants. Certain cancers and heart diseases are more prevalent with people with low levels of vitamin D in their system and this is to be expected as it is a vital component for the functioning of the immune system (as is vitamin C).

Minimizing the intake of meat and milk and sugars and all the additives in factory foods as well as avoiding the BPA that is in all the food plastic packaging, including canned foods and beverages in a can, is a wise way to avoid ill health.
After my thyroid cancer and surgery to remove the cancerous left lobe in 2018 my serum vitamin D indicators dipped dangerously low, around 15 ng/ml, and I had early onset osteopenia (with a family history of osteoporosis). My primary care doc prescribed 5,000 IU of D with calcium, but I neglected to take it until late 2019.

My doc had already read about the impending SARS-CoV2 pandemic by late 2019. She figured it was just a matter of weeks before it hit the US, so she badgered me to take the vitamin D, calcium, and suggested a few other supplements.

Even with 5,000 IU, and sometimes more between multivitamins, milk, etc., my levels are still in the low normal range. But it may have protected me from worse illnesses throughout the past couple of years. And recent bone scans show my osteopenia hasn't worsened.

I've made a few changes to my diet. I tried a vegetarian, then vegan, diet in 2018 after my thyroid cancer diagnosis. A friend had a trunkload of the stuff, left behind by her niece who's a hardcore vegan. I figured I might as well give it a try. But I'm genetically incapable of thriving on a vegan diet. I can't digest legumes, rice, etc., even with enzyme supplements.

For me, switching to a diet of mostly meat and animal products and resuming drinking milk was good for me. I hadn't drunk milk in decades due to lactose intolerance. But Braum's A2 milk eliminates the protein that causes digestive upset for many folks. It's cheaper than most ordinary milk and tastes just as good.

A few friends have gone full carnivore and say their health has never been better. One of them doesn't even cook his meat or use any seasoning. That's going a bit far for me. I eat a lot more red meat now, but I use all the seasonings I want, and usually grill or saute onions, mushrooms, maybe some peppers, for a little flavor. And I've eliminated most regular potatoes and tomatoes (trying the theory that some folks can't tolerate nightshades, and I was "allergic" to tomatoes as a kid), but started eating more sweet potatoes which I can digest without problems.

But I'm not dogmatic about diet. When I go out to dinner with friends I eat whatever is on the menu that sounds good, even if it causes minor digestive upset. If something new appeals to me in the grocery store I'll try it. My weaknesses are coffee, chocolate milk and Braum's pecan pie -- which shows in my belly pudge, although I'm only 5 lbs or so over my optimal weight. As a teenager and in my 20s I boxed amateur ranging from 132-155 lbs, and still weigh 155, so at 5'11" I'm in pretty decent shape. My optimal low body fat weight would be closer to 145-150. But I don't weigh myself often and won't worry about weight until I exceed 160.

I use whey protein powders occasionally (I can't digest vegan legume based protein powders), but usually in small amounts. I'm using more this week to supplement my diet due to vertigo with nausea caused by a persistent upper respiratory inflammation that's killed my appetite. But usually I prefer to just eat good food for protein and a balance of nutrients.
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Old 11-20-21, 05:39 AM
  #56  
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Supplement manufacturers had to come up with some magic number for protein intake, so that they can sell more protein powders. The fear of protein deficiency runs very strong in our modern society.
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Old 12-07-21, 11:13 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Absolutely right about the dose/meal. For sure 40g is the limit, a little less is probably better. I want to see the studies that MedicalNewsToday based their recs on. There about only about a zillion confounders in there.

The interesting thing in this protein daily dose business is that only protein has a prescribed dietary upper limit. Not carbs, not fat. Yet no one can point to a single study that shows that folks who consistently ate more than that dose had bad effects from it, that is from that protein dose. I'm discounting those with liver disease of course and hoping that folks know enough to distinguish between a cow-meat protein dose and other dose sources which don't contain all those chemicals, hormones, and fat.
For what's worth.
I was taking a high quality protein after my rides and gym workout (about 50 gr) a shot. After taking these doses of protein powder I ended up with a kidney stone that need a operation to be removed. Simple operation, but a lot of pain prior to the removal. It could be just a coincidence, but after discussing this with the urologist he mentioned that is quite likely that the protein powder could have an ingredient that would cause a kidney stone.
Since then I'm reluctant to using protein powder, and rely on protein from my diet.
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Old 12-07-21, 12:32 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by yannisg View Post
For what's worth.
I was taking a high quality protein after my rides and gym workout (about 50 gr) a shot. After taking these doses of protein powder I ended up with a kidney stone that need a operation to be removed. Simple operation, but a lot of pain prior to the removal. It could be just a coincidence, but after discussing this with the urologist he mentioned that is quite likely that the protein powder could have an ingredient that would cause a kidney stone.
Since then I'm reluctant to using protein powder, and rely on protein from my diet.
While 50g is definitely too much at one time, I hadn't seen any mention of kidney stones in any of the protein studies I read. So here's a good paper on the subject, well worth at least trying to read. Heavy going for those without some serious biology in their education though - like me. I'm more of an engineer than a biologist.
https://kidneystones.uchicago.edu/do...-damage-bones/

The interesting takeaway from this paper for me was that I've been taking potassium citrate for many years as a buffer (as it were) against nocturnal cramping. Thus in addition to the other contents of this thread, I recommend taking potassium citrate to go along with a high protein diet. My caps are labeled 99mg, which is in line with the amount mentioned in this paper.
Thanks to jannisg for the reminder.
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Old 12-07-21, 02:17 PM
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Most protein powder consists of whey as it is a cheap by product of cheese production. There are other sources of protein that are plant base, usually pea powder. Lentils are another excellent source of protein. Potassium and magnesium and sodium are key for the body's regulation and lack of any of these can cause problems. Often symptoms that put people in the ER can be rapidly fixed by adding one of these three, depending on what the deficiency is for the patient. Seldom though are the ER people that rational.In 2019, Boston Police arrested a Black man named Al Copeland, after he suffered a stroke while driving and pulled over to the side of the road. Instead of calling an ambulance, police assumed Copeland was drunk. They arrested him and left him in a holding cell for hours before finally sending him to the hospital. The hospital also left Mr. Copeland for 11 hours without treatment as the doctors blindly accepted the medical diagnosis of the cops. The city of Boston quietly agreed to a $1.3 million legal settlement, but the physical damage to Copeland is permanent. The cops had access to a breathalizer and the hospital staff could have drawn some blood but he was a black man and so they did not bother.

The only medical professionals that have any comprehension of body functions overall are the anesthesiologists. A doctor can get their medical degree having taken only one course in nutrition but they can provide opinions and write books that mislead the public.
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Old 12-07-21, 03:58 PM
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Just stumbled upon this thread. As luck would have it, a couple of weeks ago, just as I turned 57, I was tested to have lost a lot of muscle tone so I saw a nutritionist today to help me up my protein intake. She wasn't all that helpful. Said that eating protein is important but it's more important to consistently lift heavy. I eat the same things a lot, eggs, cheese, yogurt, chicken. Some fish, some red meat. She stressed carbs in the morning, right after I workout, with protein, instead of later in the day. I'm not convinced that timing matters but I can try it and see how it goes.

Now you owe me an insurance copay, hahaha!
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Old 12-07-21, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by HeyItsSara View Post
Just stumbled upon this thread. As luck would have it, a couple of weeks ago, just as I turned 57, I was tested to have lost a lot of muscle tone so I saw a nutritionist today to help me up my protein intake. She wasn't all that helpful. Said that eating protein is important but it's more important to consistently lift heavy. I eat the same things a lot, eggs, cheese, yogurt, chicken. Some fish, some red meat. She stressed carbs in the morning, right after I workout, with protein, instead of later in the day. I'm not convinced that timing matters but I can try it and see how it goes.

Now you owe me an insurance copay, hahaha!
One of the behaviors which I've changed is weekday during-workout nutrition. Your nutritionist is correct that heavy, protein, and carbs are all necessary to get bigger. I record everything I do, which includes heart rate and thus my software gives me a total calorie burn for everything. If I'm riding with power, I use kilojoules for a calorie burn estimate. So I can look back and guess at my burn for today's workout(s). I make up a bottle with calories in it equal to 1/2 my expected burn and drink the whole thing during or after the workout. I think that helps. My bottles are mostly carbs. I've always done this for long rides, but skimped on calories mid-week. Both carbs and protein are 4 kCal. per gram and I have a gram scale.

The literature says timing is important, but not critical, though I hold that during exercise nutrition is quite important for exercise quality. Some studies have found that just rinsing the mouth with carbs increases exercise performance. Carbs turn your muscles on.

You got your money's worth, just needs a little context. Muscle gain is certainly not just about protein. I started this thread because I'd tried everything else except more protein. I rode my bike and then went to the gym today. My quads, hams, and glutes are all hurting a bit.

There's also an HMB thread, but I think you're a little young for needing that yet. Something to think about though. I was strong and fast (for me) until my mid-60s.

I saw a study a long time ago looking at post-ride nutrition. The males did better with more protein, the females with more carbs. Older fast females I ride are maybe 5'4" and maybe 115 lbs. and can ride multiple Alpine passes. It's watts/kg, but in my experience, watts are much easier to gain than kg are to lose.
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Old 12-17-21, 12:06 PM
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If you just pile your plates with a variety of fresh vegetables, you will get adequate protein for whatever you do. If you are working out extra long and extra hard, then you will be more hungry and your plate will be piled harder and your intake will be higher. No need to think about it.
https://gamechangersmovie.com/ is very worth watching if you are moving towards a whole foods plant based lifestyle.
If you want Science and not paleo silliness, there is https://nutritionfacts.org/
I would estimate that 97% of my meals are free of processed foods and animal products and at 63 getting a few recent PRs on local segments as I get ready for my Spring Classics. Don't get me wrong, I luv me some BBQ and while most of my fishing is Flyfishing C&R, on a backpacking trip, I will eat a couple.
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Old 12-18-21, 04:14 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
If you just pile your plates with a variety of fresh vegetables, you will get adequate protein for whatever you do. If you are working out extra long and extra hard, then you will be more hungry and your plate will be piled harder and your intake will be higher. No need to think about it.
https://gamechangersmovie.com/ is very worth watching if you are moving towards a whole foods plant based lifestyle.
If you want Science and not paleo silliness, there is https://nutritionfacts.org/
I would estimate that 97% of my meals are free of processed foods and animal products and at 63 getting a few recent PRs on local segments as I get ready for my Spring Classics. Don't get me wrong, I luv me some BBQ and while most of my fishing is Flyfishing C&R, on a backpacking trip, I will eat a couple.
Right on. That was me at 63, though I did supplement with 45g whey on most days, I ate no meat at all. Back then I led the fast group and could ride a hilly century on any given day, no problem. I'm back working on that - except for the fast group thing.
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Old 01-31-22, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Red meat isn't bad for your heart....if it was our ancestors would of all died of heart attack and none of us would be here today.
Science tells us that they had fulfilled their evolutionary destiny by 30 and died. Evolution does perfect work. It tells us that we shouldn't get old enough to have heart attacks. Please scan the literature for statistics on heart attacks before the age of 20. Our ancestors had all reproduced by then. Heck, looking back on it, most 14 year-olds that I knew as a 14 year-old would have reproduced by then if they could have.
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Old 02-01-22, 07:35 AM
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I don't know if this was mentioned above as I didn't have time to read the whole thread but I believe the recommended protein intake to build/maintain muscle is 1 gram of protein per pound of LEAN body mass. If you are obese (which you are obviously not) or don't have a lot of muscle mass your protein requirement is less. The best way to determine your dietary needs is a nutritionist. As you are a bit older one that specializes in your age group could probably provide really good info about how much, what kind and what is best for your body.

I work with nutritionists every day and the info they have is pretty impressive.
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Old 02-01-22, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Rdmonster69 View Post
I don't know if this was mentioned above as I didn't have time to read the whole thread but I believe the recommended protein intake to build/maintain muscle is 1 gram of protein per pound of LEAN body mass. If you are obese (which you are obviously not) or don't have a lot of muscle mass your protein requirement is less. The best way to determine your dietary needs is a nutritionist. As you are a bit older one that specializes in your age group could probably provide really good info about how much, what kind and what is best for your body.

I work with nutritionists every day and the info they have is pretty impressive.
Because of the individual response to aging and thus one's efficiency w/r to myofibrillar protein synthesis, the only way to figure it out is by experiment. I've settled on .6g of whey protein isolate per pound of bodyweight, plus my normal diet. Results using less were not as good and more didn't increase results.
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Old 02-01-22, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Red meat isn't bad for your heart....if it was our ancestors would of all died of heart attack and none of us would be here today.
Our ancient ancestors only lived 20 years ...not enough time to get heart disease lol
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Old 02-01-22, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Rdmonster69 View Post
Our ancient ancestors only lived 20 years ...not enough time to get heart disease lol
That was the average.

Most died in the first couple years of life and the rest lived to 55-60 years old. Not a "Normal" distribution.
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Old 02-01-22, 03:01 PM
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This thread is pretty interesting. I'm 51 and have the same size waist as I did when I was in college. I hate the gym and I hate working out but I am there all the time. That's how manage to keep in shape esp. in the non riding months which are pretty long here in central Indiana I protein supplement pretty often but don't go crazy with it. My diet is decent overall so I supplement with maybe1 shake a day. I recently cut quite a bit of carbs and calories and dropped about 10 pounds which allowed me to achieve visible ab muscles for the first time in about 8 years.

I like beer so that didn't last very long LoL.

One thing that keeps me in the gym was a saying I read somewhere but now forget. " Strong people are harder to kill" , That's motivating enough for me !!
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Old 02-01-22, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
That was the average.

Most died in the first couple years of life and the rest lived to 55-60 years old. Not a "Normal" distribution.
Depends what era you are talking about. Truly ancient as in hunter gatherers with no farming and no language with no permanent place to live. Unlikely

Ancient Egypt, Pre Columbian Mesoamerica ....that age of humanity. I agree.
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Old 02-01-22, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Rdmonster69 View Post
Depends what era you are talking about. Truly ancient as in hunter gatherers with no farming and no language with no permanent place to live. Unlikely

Ancient Egypt, Pre Columbian Mesoamerica ....that age of humanity. I agree.
The author of The Midlife Cyclist discussed in another thread here, says 30. After that, you get to be easy prey. Evolutionary time is probably before 50,000 years ago. They say that a human from 70,000 years ago could be taught to fly a jet airliner. We haven't gotten any smarter, just more destructive.
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