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Training to Increase Speed and Stamina

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Training to Increase Speed and Stamina

Old 04-18-22, 03:20 PM
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N2deep
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Training to Increase Speed and Stamina

Iím, A young 70ish Fred, that need to improve my stamina and speed this year and believe that I need a new training regimen. Last year I rode three times a week, 25/30 miles/2 hrs. each ride. I ride several organized rides each year and struggle a little with the +65 milers and bonk out on the 100 milers.

I plan to cut the duration of each training ride to an hour, ride 6 days a week rather than the 3 day and to add more intensity to the daily rides. I believe this would improve my overall fitness.

Your opinions, experience and recommendations appreciated.
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Old 04-18-22, 03:25 PM
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caloso
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What's your riding been like since Jan 1? Have you been on a similar schedule as last year? Or are you starting up now?
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Old 04-18-22, 03:26 PM
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Increase your RPMs.
Pedal up to where you are not able to talk.
Then back down to where you can Speak and hold that for as Long as you can.
Worked for me on a tour. I did it for 3 weeks.
When we got CA I was able to pass club riders up hills in their home territory.
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Old 04-18-22, 04:45 PM
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Get a coach, power meter, HR monitor, Zwift account. Use analytics.
Get a nutritionist - beet root juice, pickle juice, supplement du jour.
Get bike upgrades.


or

Listen to your body, eat well. Hard days include climbing or intervals; rest days can go longer but slow; rest. Lots of rest, or take a 4 day break every month. Cross train for core & flexibility. Smile. Be happy.

Clear your handlebars and your mind will follow.


edit: For longer (60+mile) rides, the solution is often eating and drinking well on the bike. But if that is not your prob, learn to ride aero-ly instead of Fred-ly. Truly,.... think of the extra effort in sitting upright, flappy clothes, 44+cm bars, etc = over the course of 100miles.

If you live near mountains ride them.

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Old 04-18-22, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by N2deep View Post
Iím, A young 70ish Fred, that need to improve my stamina and speed this year and believe that I need a new training regimen. Last year I rode three times a week, 25/30 miles/2 hrs. each ride. I ride several organized rides each year and struggle a little with the +65 milers and bonk out on the 100 milers.

I plan to cut the duration of each training ride to an hour, ride 6 days a week rather than the 3 day and to add more intensity to the daily rides. I believe this would improve my overall fitness.

Your opinions, experience and recommendations appreciated.
I am almost your age but not quite and do ride more than 100 milers many times per year.

Your failure is not having one long ride per week. That long ride should get up to 60-70 miles to be able to easily handle a 100 miler. I'd ride 4-5 times per week AND have one long ride. Increase that long ride 10% per week. In 2 months you should be at that 60-70 mile level. Intensity is not well tolerated by us older riders but paradoxically is most needed. So, you also need about an hour total in a week riding hard.
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Old 04-18-22, 05:56 PM
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One rule of thumb is, miles per week equals long one-day ride. So your almost had the weekly miles for a century.

If you're starting with "just riding around", any kind of intentional training will help - intervals, tempo, spinning more, etc. Fun is good. I enjoy intervals up short hills, so i do that.

Rest days are equally important, and increasingly so with age. The harder you train, the more restful your rest days need to be

On a century, hydration and nutrition matter more than even 60 miles. Don't fall behind early on eating.

And there's always this: ride lots.
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Old 04-18-22, 06:01 PM
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But, are you having fun? Six days a week sounds like a job to me. Consider doing 3 days a week, with one long and two just wander around, going for coffee or ice cream.

Do you have a group to ride with? Easier to go farther with friends.
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Old 04-18-22, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Your failure is not having one long ride per week. That long ride should get up to 60-70 miles to be able to easily handle a 100 miler. I'd ride 4-5 times per week AND have one long ride. Increase that long ride 10% per week. In 2 months you should be at that 60-70 mile level. Intensity is not well tolerated by us older riders but paradoxically is most needed. So, you also need about an hour total in a week riding hard.
Iíd agree about needing one longer ride each week if you want to do those long club rides. Also, I agree about a total of one hour per week riding hard, as in 90% of maximum heart rate, if one can tolerate it.

Otto
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Old 04-19-22, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by N2deep View Post
Iím, A young 70ish Fred, that need to improve my stamina and speed this year and believe that I need a new training regimen. Last year I rode three times a week, 25/30 miles/2 hrs. each ride. I ride several organized rides each year and struggle a little with the +65 milers and bonk out on the 100 milers.

I plan to cut the duration of each training ride to an hour, ride 6 days a week rather than the 3 day and to add more intensity to the daily rides. I believe this would improve my overall fitness.

Your opinions, experience and recommendations appreciated.

I'm only 53 and my training is a bit more than most and reflective of racing goals but I know someone locally who is a triathlete in his 70's. He typically does 5 days a week with 2 complete rest days, 2 Zone 2 recovery days (i.e. a pace where he can easily hold a conversation) and 3 training days. He does a longer ride on one of those days and then 2 days with intervals based upon how he feels. Intervals can be anything from 4x15s sprints to 4x5min efforts or 1x20min effort, 40/20's or whatever. He also does a run and a swim on alternate days too, so he is very fit for his age.

Food and hydration is very important, you can't skimp on those. I work to 40g carbs per hour for my own needs when out training, irrespective of what I've eaten before.

My own training is 6 days a week except race weeks; I like to have 2 rest days on race week. My mileage is typically around 300 miles and 15000ft per week and I do two longer rides in that, one or two recovery rides and interval days which can involve various types of intervals according to what my Coach decides.

I am an advocate for monitoring my performance too. I do have clear handlebars on my MTB preferring to use my Garmin Fenix Pro watch to record my activity and I review the stats afterwards via Strava and Training Peaks but on my road bike I use a Hammerhead Karoo 2 computer and subscribe to using a power meter since, for my own personal training goals, I find it helps to know what my current power levels are and to maintain and improve upon those in training. But this is very subjective, some folks feel this takes away from their riding pleasure whilst I don't at all - but then, I thoroughly enjoy hard intervals and pushing myself to my limits which makes me different to most.

Ultimately, you need to mix it up, intervals, longer rides but plenty of Z2 riding and rest - listen to your body and if fatigue is setting in, rest. As we get older, recovery which has always been important, takes longer and we can't avoid that.


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Old 04-19-22, 06:45 AM
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I agree with the people who tell you to ride for the enjoyment of it instead of the chore. Go somewhere for the destination, like coffee or to tourist traps to people-watch.

Don't take the car to start your bike ride. You'll force yourself to ride through traffic, and psychologically, you'll be pushing a bit harder than as you would in park trails.

My last 1.5km before home has a 700m stretch on a main arterial 60 km/hr road. I sprint for 1min 10sec racing to get to the next controlled intersection before too many cars get off the highway and pass me.
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Old 04-19-22, 08:01 AM
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Last year I rode three times a week, 25/30 miles/2 hrs. each ride. I ride several organized rides each year and struggle a little with the +65 milers and bonk out on the 100 milers.
That a pretty vague description of any exercise history. Typically, anyone serious about improving exercise tolerance and or training for a specific goal will have definitive athletic milestones they wish to return to or exceed.
Your age - would suggest you would want to try to ride as well as you did ten years ago. But, if you had no fitness level then, I guess you should be setting new fitness goals now.
In either case, improvement in any sport is easier when the athlete takes stock of his/her exercise volume and applies measured efforts for measured session lengths and frequency. These routines require self discipline, that's why its called "training."

You have to ride fast to get faster. You have to ride often to be able ride longer. Good Luck.

.
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Old 04-20-22, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
That a pretty vague description of any exercise history. Typically, anyone serious about improving exercise tolerance and or training for a specific goal will have definitive athletic milestones they wish to return to or exceed.
Your age - would suggest you would want to try to ride as well as you did ten years ago. But, if you had no fitness level then, I guess you should be setting new fitness goals now.
In either case, improvement in any sport is easier when the athlete takes stock of his/her exercise volume and applies measured efforts for measured session lengths and frequency. These routines require self discipline, that's why its called "training."

You have to ride fast to get faster. You have to ride often to be able ride longer. Good Luck.

.
I ride for fun and average 3K a year. I agree with the "Can't improve what you don't measure" philosophy. I ride alone most days out of choice and schedule issues and live in the coastal flats of Southern Texas, no hills but plenty of +15mph wind. I appreciate everyone's input and will start a 4 day week ride, with one long trip and shop for a power meter..

Thanks again
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Old 04-20-22, 09:23 PM
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Try riding three days a week, monday, Wednesday and Friday as fast as you can for an hour uphill, and on Tuesday and Thursday RUN as fast and as long as you can.

Riding up steel hills really makes a difference compared to riding fast flat roads. Last summer I started going up steep hills I had to take in low gear on a mountainbike, keep spinning and stay seated so the rear tire would not lose traction and stop me, they were long hills too where my heart was pounding and I could not breathe any harder by the time I got near the top, so I could not have done any more without having my heart burst or maybe passing out. This really made a big difference when I got onto a road bike and hit a hill, I was able to take the hills in a much higher gear and at a much higher speed than at the start of the season. And running puts muscle on the legs and core that riding a bike just won't. I also started riding up hills on the road in a high gear while standing up as fast as I could.

I think this hard type of workout made me much stronger and faster than just riding on the road five or six days in a row. And the weekend off really helps the muscles recover, as when you jump on the bike Monday you will be able to go REALLY fast, the fastest you will be able to go all the rest of the week if you are hitting it hard.

IN the winter I was riding a road-bike on a trainer with as much resistance as I could stand, pedaling as hard as I could for a half-hour to an hour, alternating with days of lifting weights, toe-raises and squats, also stuff for the arms. I live where there are very harsh winters where it is impossible to ride outside in many feet of snow and far below freezing, so that is the best I can do sometimes. A friend of mine lost fingers riding the winter here to frostbite.....
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Old 04-21-22, 04:13 PM
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Also, if you run do it on grass or sand, nobody out of college age should run on pavement, and early to bed.early to rise, if you don't get the right sleep at night then you are wasting your time, and of course diet can make a difference, if you are eating fast food, junk food, and are not mainly eating veggies and fruits etc. you are also wasting your time.
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Old 04-22-22, 04:35 AM
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I’m 70 as well, many years ago I ran 5 days a week consecutively anywhere from 5 to 8 miles each run. When training for races I would do something different each day. Interval training is key to improved times. There a different ways to do this but basically it’s all out for some time/distance and then easy for a longer period. So full sprint for 60-90 seconds no then a jog for 2-3 minutes. Do this 7-8 times and then a longer last recovery time. Hill work, I would run up a hill and back down 7-8 times in a row and then a light jog recovery. Long run, maybe last day of the week, but 10 miles or more at a decent pace. The days in between let’s say Tuesday and Thursday would just be average recovery runs. This training helped lower my per mile times for 10ks and longer races significantly. Now that’s when I was in my 30’s and 40’s. I’ve only been cycling for a couple of years and would defer to many of the experts here for advice, but I think most of the running training would work for cycling as well. As much as most here are probably competitive by nature I have found more enjoyment in the riding just for riding. I fall into the “should be faster” mindset but in the end I’m happy to be able to ride 25-30 miles 3-4 times a week. Injury recovery at my age is much longer and I don’t want to get hurt trying to increase my mph at this point in life. Just my thoughts but certainly YMMV
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Old 04-22-22, 05:50 AM
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To do 100 mile rides comfortably, OP needs volume at moderate pace to build stamina and endurance. A pace where breathing is still thru the nose but also takes some concentration to maintain. Not too much sprinting or riding where breathing is very labored.

https://www.howardluksmd.com/zone-2-...r-less-injury/
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Old 04-22-22, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
To do 100 mile rides comfortably, OP needs volume at moderate pace to build stamina and endurance. A pace where breathing is still thru the nose but also takes some concentration to maintain. Not too much sprinting or riding where breathing is very labored.

https://www.howardluksmd.com/zone-2-...r-less-injury/
Thanks for this article. It was something I needed to see. I think Iíve been doing too much in higher zones and not enough uninterrupted Zone 2 work.

This inspired me to put the road bars back on my Schwinn single speed today and see if I could manage two hours in Zone 2, even with the 20+ mph winds we had today.

At least by heart rate, the answer seems to be yes. And our flatter trail routes are well suited because the only substantial hills are right before I get home, which doesnít mess up the main part of the ride. The tricky part was keeping the HR down going into the headwinds on SS, and the road bars helped.

Otto
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Old 04-23-22, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
To do 100 mile rides comfortably, OP needs volume at moderate pace to build stamina and endurance. A pace where breathing is still thru the nose but also takes some concentration to maintain. Not too much sprinting or riding where breathing is very labored.

https://www.howardluksmd.com/zone-2-...r-less-injury/
This is certainly true for stamina and endurance, albeit you absolutely need to bust a gut and do HIIT for speed increases for racing, TT's etc - you cannot expect to increase outright speed purely by riding Z2 albeit you will go faster with increased stamina over a longer course - but we need both to go really fast. So if it is simply a matter of completing 100mi then volume at a steady pace is just fine. If it is to increase racing speed, then HIIT needs to take place.

Pogacar's coach explained this recently and GCN posted a video talking about it:

There are a couple of new-to-racing chaps I know, both in their early 30's, both very strong athletes, who have decided full-gas is the only way to go. One is a sponsored rider, plenty of natural talent, the other used my coach for a month and then decided he didn't like being told to do slower, easier efforts - Z2 was not for him. He is laser-focussed upon impressing with high average speeds. He likes to suffer and has an enviable ability to do so. However, I predict both these guys will burn out and stop improving in the not too distant future. I know, I've been there myself when I was younger. Overtrained.

Z2 is very important and I do more of it than HIIT but both are required if speed and endurance are the goal.



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Old 04-29-22, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by N2deep View Post
Iím, A young 70ish Fred, that need to improve my stamina and speed this year and believe that I need a new training regimen. Last year I rode three times a week, 25/30 miles/2 hrs. each ride. I ride several organized rides each year and struggle a little with the +65 milers and bonk out on the 100 milers.

I plan to cut the duration of each training ride to an hour, ride 6 days a week rather than the 3 day and to add more intensity to the daily rides. I believe this would improve my overall fitness.

Your opinions, experience and recommendations appreciated.
Speed...mostly genetically determination.
but to be faster one must train faster..
sprints...gain power...fast is limited to dna but u can improve power..technique..yadda.
good luck.
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Old 05-01-22, 11:01 AM
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What works the best is intervals and bicycling in a hilly area is ideal for this. I power up to the top and then my body gets a break on the downhill section and repeating this over a distance works exceedingly well. I ride where there are moderate hills and not a few very steep grades. Most advise a rest day that uses a different muscle group on the "down" day and this could be upper body workouts with free weights.

Food is very important on long rides and carbo loading does help. Pancakes are bettter than meat and eggs for breakfast when doing a long hard ride. Raisins and bananas are good snack foods while riding to keep the blood sugar up and feed the muscles.
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Old 05-01-22, 12:02 PM
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Do NOT do the same or similar intensity on all of your rides. As others have said, mix it up. Easy days, hard days, longer rides, shorter rides. You need the short harder rides to see gains, but you also need the longer lower intensity rides as well as the simply low intensity rides of any length mixed in.
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Old 05-01-22, 12:18 PM
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Question: What is your goal? It is to ride faster generally, or is it to finish 100km or 100miles in good order with out the shame of sitting in the sag wagon?

I think to do long rides you have to ride long rides regularly in your training. I like to work up to 2/3~3/4 of the distance of the event/distance I want to ride at slightly higher pace I would do at the event. That is if I want to ride the local century I'll try to work up to at least 70miles during training at maybe 5% more effort then I want to ride for the event. Do this slowly starting at maybe a 2 hour ride and then ladder up week by week to your goal. To prevent fatigue from creeping in you can do 'the long ride' every other week.

During the actual event pacing is so very important. Don't get excited and ride like crazy from the start. My rule is to treat the first hour as a 'warm up' and ride pretty easy before going harder or joining a paceline.

Long rides over a 3 month period look like this while working up to the event:
week, miles
1 30m (~2 hour elapsed time)
2 35m
3 40m
4 45m (or what 3 hours total elapsed time gets you).
5 50m
6 60m
7 45m (the 3 hour ride)
8 65m
9 45m
10 70m
11 45m
12 - Event/ Goal ride
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Old 05-01-22, 03:01 PM
  #23  
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In an interview with two physical therapists I heard, they recommended eating some high-quality protein immediately after finishing a hard workout to aid in recovery.
Another thing I read recently was by a physician commenting on overtraining; if your legs feel heavy you might be overtrained and in need of more rest and nutrition.

https://www.hss.edu/article_overtraining.asp

"Overreaching is muscle soreness above and beyond what you typically experience that occurs when you donít sufficiently recover between workouts. Overreaching usually happens after several consecutive days of hard training and results in feeling run down. Luckily, the effects of overreaching can be easily reversed with rest. Overtraining occurs when an athlete ignores the signs of overreaching and continues to train. Many athletes believe that weakness or poor performance signals the need for even harder training, so they continue to push themselves. This only breaks down the body further.Full recovery from overtraining is difficult and can require weeks or months of time off from working out..."
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Old 05-01-22, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by AlgarveCycling View Post
This is certainly true for stamina and endurance, albeit you absolutely need to bust a gut and do HIIT for speed increases for racing, TT's etc - you cannot expect to increase outright speed purely by riding Z2 albeit you will go faster with increased stamina over a longer course - but we need both to go really fast. So if it is simply a matter of completing 100mi then volume at a steady pace is just fine. If it is to increase racing speed, then HIIT needs to take place.

Pogacar's coach explained this recently and GCN posted a video talking about it

There are a couple of new-to-racing chaps I know, both in their early 30's, both very strong athletes, who have decided full-gas is the only way to go. One is a sponsored rider, plenty of natural talent, the other used my coach for a month and then decided he didn't like being told to do slower, easier efforts - Z2 was not for him. He is laser-focussed upon impressing with high average speeds. He likes to suffer and has an enviable ability to do so. However, I predict both these guys will burn out and stop improving in the not too distant future. I know, I've been there myself when I was younger. Overtrained.

Z2 is very important and I do more of it than HIIT but both are required if speed and endurance are the goal.
Totally agree with this ^

Reading between the lines I think the OP just needs to do a couple of fairly intensive 1 hour sessions during the week plus one longer steady ride (say 50-60 miles) at the weekend. I think that would be far more effective than 6x 1 hour sessions for the OP's longer event goals. A power meter and focused intervals would potentially give the most bang for the buck with the shorter sessions.
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Old 05-01-22, 06:04 PM
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GhostRider62
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Totally agree with this ^

Reading between the lines I think the OP just needs to do a couple of fairly intensive 1 hour sessions during the week plus one longer steady ride (say 50-60 miles) at the weekend. I think that would be far more effective than 6x 1 hour sessions for the OP's longer event goals. A power meter and focused intervals would potentially give the most bang for the buck with the shorter sessions.
OP is 70 years old. He rides 2-3 time per week for 25-30 miles and you want him to be doing HIIT? Jump right into a 50-60 miler on the weekend? To train for a Century? Why? Are you trying to kill him? Or just train his metabolism in the completely wrong direction for a 7-8 hour century, so he can bonk sooner?

OP is not a racer, a sportif rider, or even a randonneur. He merely lacks the endurance to comfortably ride a century and that is accomplished with building an aerobic base, which emphasises type1 slowtwitch muscles with just a little bit of anaerobic work. He does not need 5 minute VO2 max to bridge up from the team car.
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