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Will Human Power Cycling Sunset?

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Will Human Power Cycling Sunset?

Old 12-14-22, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by freeranger
????....But playing music (which I do), to riding a bike--two totally different pursuits. Sorry you are so defensive, but don't see your point.
The point is "contributing to muscle tone" is not necessarily the goal, objective or even a consideration of some, many or perhaps most people who buy, use or are interested in e-bikes. "Contributing to muscle tone" may not be the reason or even given any consideration for many people who use pedal bicycles for transportation or why children (or pre-teens) ride bicycles.
The point is that you make negative remarks about an activity because it doesn't "contribute to muscle tone" as if that were the only or primary reason to partake in an activity

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Old 12-14-22, 12:23 PM
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I said I was done with this thread, but I'll see if I can explain it so you might understand it. The question is whether human powered cycling was sunsetting. Children who are less physically active are not developing the muscle tone of those more active-maybe just running and playing, or riding a non-motor assisted bike, something that develops muscle tone. Children which are more physically fit are more likely to mature as more physically fit adults. Physically fit adults who continue to exercise, would be more likely to ride a pedal powered bike vs a motorized assisted bike. If e-bikes continue to outpace pedal powered bike sales, eventually it could lead to pedal power sunsetting. I am not against e-bikes-many may use them for commuting, but most I see are not used for that. I tried-for a couple of years-to convince an 80 year old friend with a replaced knee and arthritic hip, to purchase an e-bike. He finally has. Another rider, a woman in her late 70's, is now considering an e-bike and I am assisting her with research on which one will work for her. Both were active when younger which has allowed them to keep pedaling as long as they have. Point-kids who are less active and don't develop good muscle tone as a kid may carry that into adulthood. Those who wish to ride a bike, but find it overly strenuous, may opt for a bike with assist. Not saying that the only reason for choosing an e-bike is lack of fitness, but it can be a contributing factor. Of course, commuting or injury may be another factor. Just saying that lack of fitness can be a factor, and seeing kids who mainly exercise by twisting the throttle on their electic bike or other vehicles causes me to be concerned about their fitness as they mature. If you grow up using assist instead of muscle power, I think the more likely it is to carry over, and could influence the adult's choice when shopping for a bike. Hope that clarifies it for you. If not, I give up. You seem to assume I am anti e-bike, when all I am trying to do is answer what could lead to pedal power to sunset. I choose to keep pedaling as long as I physically can, I'm not commuting, and enjoy riding for fitness and the social aspect. Getting up a steep hill on my own provides me with satisfaction and pride, not that I fly up them, and some I may walk, but that's my choice. Not saying everyone needs to go along with my choice--that's why it's called a choice. OK, I'm done for real, you either get it or you don't.
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Old 12-14-22, 05:25 PM
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There are few americans that regularly ride bikes for any reason compared to americans who use cars. Now that the limited infrastructure designed and built for bicycle use can be used by motorized vehicles which do not need a license or insurance, even fewer americans will be riding bicycles. And as this trend continues (evidence of which i am confronted with daily on my 40 mile commute) it will become too dangerous for most folks to brave riding a bicycle among the nuts on motorized vehicles. On the bike path yesterday, I encountered a four-wheeled electric vehicle flying towards me at an easy 25 mph.
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Old 12-15-22, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by freeranger
I said I was done with this thread, but I'll see if I can explain it so you might understand it. The question is whether human powered cycling was sunsetting. Children who are less physically active are not developing the muscle tone of those more active-maybe just running and playing, or riding a non-motor assisted bike, something that develops muscle tone. Children which are more physically fit are more likely to mature as more physically fit adults. Physically fit adults who continue to exercise, would be more likely to ride a pedal powered bike vs a motorized assisted bike. If e-bikes continue to outpace pedal powered bike sales, eventually it could lead to pedal power sunsetting. I am not against e-bikes-many may use them for commuting, but most I see are not used for that. I tried-for a couple of years-to convince an 80 year old friend with a replaced knee and arthritic hip, to purchase an e-bike. He finally has. Another rider, a woman in her late 70's, is now considering an e-bike and I am assisting her with research on which one will work for her. Both were active when younger which has allowed them to keep pedaling as long as they have. Point-kids who are less active and don't develop good muscle tone as a kid may carry that into adulthood. Those who wish to ride a bike, but find it overly strenuous, may opt for a bike with assist. Not saying that the only reason for choosing an e-bike is lack of fitness, but it can be a contributing factor. Of course, commuting or injury may be another factor. Just saying that lack of fitness can be a factor, and seeing kids who mainly exercise by twisting the throttle on their electic bike or other vehicles causes me to be concerned about their fitness as they mature. If you grow up using assist instead of muscle power, I think the more likely it is to carry over, and could influence the adult's choice when shopping for a bike. Hope that clarifies it for you. If not, I give up. You seem to assume I am anti e-bike, when all I am trying to do is answer what could lead to pedal power to sunset. I choose to keep pedaling as long as I physically can, I'm not commuting, and enjoy riding for fitness and the social aspect. Getting up a steep hill on my own provides me with satisfaction and pride, not that I fly up them, and some I may walk, but that's my choice. Not saying everyone needs to go along with my choice--that's why it's called a choice. OK, I'm done for real, you either get it or you don't.
I think you are seriously over-estimating the effect of bicycles on a kid's physical development. I also think you are over-estimating the number of kids actually riding e-bikes. Most kids only get to ride relatively cheap manual bikes due to cost.

Those who choose to take up biking as a sport will continue to pedal for obvious reasons. Those choosing to ride e-bikes (particularly throttle operated rather than pedal assist) are a new breed who probably wouldn't be riding ordinary bikes anyway. They would probably be riding petrol powered scooters previously. It's no different to running as a sport. Is running going to disappear because of motorised segways? I don't think so.
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Old 12-15-22, 07:12 AM
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Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'll avoid contributing to any discussions involving e-bikes in the future. BTW-I don't hate e-bikes. Happy Holidays!

Last edited by freeranger; 12-15-22 at 07:25 AM.
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Old 12-18-22, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
I think you are seriously over-estimating the effect of bicycles on a kid's physical development. I also think you are over-estimating the number of kids actually riding e-bikes. Most kids only get to ride relatively cheap manual bikes due to cost.

Those who choose to take up biking as a sport will continue to pedal for obvious reasons. Those choosing to ride e-bikes (particularly throttle operated rather than pedal assist) are a new breed who probably wouldn't be riding ordinary bikes anyway. They would probably be riding petrol powered scooters previously. It's no different to running as a sport. Is running going to disappear because of motorised segways? I don't think so.
What's going to happen is a further splitting of bicycle technology.
You will have battery powered e-bikes, pedal driven generator bicycles (no chain, motor in the rear hub) and chain driven bicycles. eventually, mechanical bicycles will be more expensive than electric bikes as production costs go down due to mass assembly savings.
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Old 12-19-22, 12:10 PM
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I’m almost 65 and rode my bicycle to school almost every day from 1st grade all the way through college. When I was younger the hills were no problem for me. After 50 I have had more and more problems with the hills and now they pretty much stop me cold. I usually take my bikes to the relatively flat Veloway where I can still enjoy them. I currently have 6 bicycles.

Soon I should receive the new Generation 3 CYC Stealth 1500 watt mid drive kit. It has both fully programmable torque sensing pedal assist and a throttle. I expect to have no problems getting up the longest and steepest hills and go anywhere I want. I expect to get more exercise by reducing the pedal assist in flat areas and enjoying much longer rides.

I expect that in 50 years 70% of bicycles will be electrically assisted. Acoustic bicycles will never disappear entirely and will always be enjoyed for their own merits. I hope by then the fitness elitists will be able to keep their snide comments to themselves.

Ride whatever you enjoy and makes you want to ride farther.
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Old 12-23-22, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by vonfilm
…I hope by then the fitness elitists will be able to keep their snide comments to themselves.
What would Lance do?
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Old 12-23-22, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by fat biker
I do not have a crystal ball.
I do not have visions.

I do not see a lot of kids on bicycles.
I do see 20 somethings riding electric bicycles and electric scooters.
Transportation is moving toward electrification.

Are we a dying breed?

fat biker
Nope electric bikes are just another way to bike like mountain bikes were in the 80s.
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Old 12-23-22, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by vonfilm
II hope by then the fitness elitists will be able to keep their snide comments to themselves.

Ride whatever you enjoy and makes you want to ride farther.
Originally Posted by Classtime
What would Lance do?
I dunno. Maybe he would gratuitously post on BF self-centered advice, opinions, and observations about how his fitness, diet and training regimens make him a more worthy cyclist than those cyclists who don't give a darn about obsessing over such things.
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Old 12-23-22, 02:41 PM
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Battery-assist or not is not a binary question. Those who want the exercise, or don't see the point, or have to carry their bikes up two flights of stairs will continue to ride non-powered bicycles.
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Old 12-23-22, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
I dunno. Maybe he would gratuitously post on BF self-centered advice, opinions, and observations about how his fitness, diet and training regimens make him a more worthy cyclist than those cyclists who don't give a darn about obsessing over such things.
I bought and read "It's Not About The Bike" when it came out.
After Lance's truth came out I felt like I should send the book to him and demand a refund of my $25.

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Old 12-23-22, 06:03 PM
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In the near future all recreational cycling, training and racing will become virtual reality done indoors on a indoor bike, nobody will ride outdoors except people who use bikes for transportation...In far off future humans will cease to perform any type of physical activity and everybody will have their own personal robot to do any type of physical tasks for them.
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Old 12-24-22, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
In the near future all recreational cycling, training and racing will become virtual reality done indoors on a indoor bike, nobody will ride outdoors except people who use bikes for transportation...In far off future humans will cease to perform any type of physical activity and everybody will have their own personal robot to do any type of physical tasks for them.
Scary thought. But easily envisioned! Roomba
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Old 12-24-22, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
In the near future all recreational cycling, training and racing will become virtual reality done indoors on a indoor bike, nobody will ride outdoors except people who use bikes for transportation...In far off future humans will cease to perform any type of physical activity and everybody will have their own personal robot to do any type of physical tasks for them.
Or maybe with all the robots taking care of all the menial tasks they will have more free time to go biking. But not a problem for this life.
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Old 12-24-22, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by freeranger
Scary thought. But easily envisioned! Roomba
Indoor trainer e-bikes for people who like to smoke others on Zwift!
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Old 12-25-22, 07:34 AM
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Hmmm, I think eBikes are an entry drug... Not everyone will get hooked, but some poor sucker is going to love the feel of the endorphins from pedaling and then they will be an addict for life to the dark side!
If the goal is to get somewhere, I suspect eBikes win (like communting), but if the goal is to go out simply and have a good time and get a bit of endorphin rush, it is hard to beat a basic bike. Like someone said, it is comparing a canoe/sailboat to a motorboat - except that the eBike will help you develop all the skills, but gradually, instead of all at once.

And interesting thing is in our neck of the jungle, eBikes were popular - but battery failures killed it. As one person pointed out, the knowledge to recharge correctly so that you don't kill the battery isn't just plug in and ignore. So, people switch back to a small 2 cycle motor instead. I am going to wait probably 10 years before considering it. Too raw for me right now.

I am still pedaling along, though with our hills / mountains the thought has crossed my mind!
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Old 12-31-22, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Classtime
What would Lance do?
Take another bag of blood.
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Old 01-03-23, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by crtreedude
And interesting thing is in our neck of the jungle, eBikes were popular - but battery failures killed it. As one person pointed out, the knowledge to recharge correctly so that you don't kill the battery isn't just plug in and ignore. So, people switch back to a small 2 cycle motor instead. I am going to wait probably 10 years before considering it. Too raw for me right now.
Battery cost killed it. Not battery failures. And in 10 years nothing will have changed enough to matter. Get in now, or never, unless you are 30. But if you're an early Boomer like me, the present is about as good as it gets.
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Old 01-04-23, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by crtreedude
I am going to wait probably 10 years before considering it. Too raw for me right now.
10 years!

If you buy a high quality e-bike today the battery will be fine. For sure right now the cost is relatively high and that's the main issue for most people considering it. In the family we have a couple of e-bikes that are several years old and the batteries are holding up just fine. No special charging knowledge required. Just don't leave them totally flat for long periods.
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Old 01-14-23, 02:08 PM
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These reports of ebikes are interesting, because in the Washington DC area, the only ones I see are the rental ones from Capital Bikeshare. The few ebikers I see behave well. They go about as fast and generally behave about like the sporty people on road bikes. No complaints from me about them. I don't think I want one, though -- as long as I can make it up the hill to my house at the end of the trip, why bother? I wonder why they are less popular here than elsewhere. Perhaps because this is an area full of Type A personalities who think ebikes are for weaklings.
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Old 01-15-23, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by PaulH
I don't think I want one, though -- as long as I can make it up the hill to my house at the end of the trip, why bother?
I have a friend who uses an e-bike (pedal assist road e-bike) for commuting. It's a pretty long commute (about 30 miles) with some significant climbs. His e-bike makes that commute a more feasible daily proposition. He rides a normal road bike for recreation.
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Old 01-15-23, 11:19 AM
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Thanks again Everybody.
Good stuff fere.

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Old 01-18-23, 09:07 AM
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It can be both ebike and human powered.
My 'e' assist shuts off at ~15/16mph, then human power motors a 30# bike.
Who rides under 16mph except on hills?
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Old 01-19-23, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood
It can be both ebike and human powered.
My 'e' assist shuts off at ~15/16mph, then human power motors a 30# bike.
Who rides under 16mph except on hills?
Id say most of us ride under 16 mph and if you loose 15 pounds off that bike, you wont need the motor.
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