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Will Human Power Cycling Sunset?

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Will Human Power Cycling Sunset?

Old 01-19-23, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Classtime
I’d say most of us ride under 16 mph and if you loose 15 pounds off that bike, you won’t need the motor.
At 72, double cancer survivor with neurologic issues, I appreciate a bike for recovery rides and when taking longer rides on very hilly or mountain roads. I still have a dozen without assist (after N-10 in the last few months) and ride them all, and have 1st hand experience with your inaccurate assertion. A tough climb home on every ride, leaves me with extreme muscle fatigue that trashes my after-ride activities. So I put an e-bike in the mix.

I hope to enjoy the mountain roads around Mt Rainier in e-style in the late Spring.

But thanks for the unfounded confidence in my ability to ride extended climbs.

18+ pounds of carbon and Campa, from a few years back.
For those who ride sub-16mph on flatish roads, well.....my mileage varies.
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Old 01-20-23, 01:33 PM
  #102  
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I'm only 64 and only survived 3 open heart surgeries and the last one gave me an artificial valve but I plan on one day maybe needing a granny gear to climb any paved road. The future will tell. I have no plans to ride a motor bike to get to and from exercise sessions. But if that does happen, I will post in the motor bike sub forum. It really really bugs me that electric bikes are more and more accepted as bicycles.
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Old 01-21-23, 07:07 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Classtime
I'm only 64 and only survived 3 open heart surgeries and the last one gave me an artificial valve but I plan on one day maybe needing a granny gear to climb any paved road. The future will tell. I have no plans to ride a motor bike to get to and from exercise sessions. But if that does happen, I will post in the motor bike sub forum. It really really bugs me that electric bikes are more and more accepted as bicycles.
It really bugs me that folk like you can't accept e-bikes as a valid bicycle choice for others.
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Old 01-21-23, 08:04 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
It really bugs me that folk like you can't accept e-bikes as a valid bicycle choice for others.
I guess, theses days, with all of the misinformation, it is expected that some people will believe that choosing a motorized bike over a real bicycle is like choosing electronic shifting over mechanical or disk brakes over rim brakes. And now that the law where I ride states that motorbikes are equivalent to real bikes, I should just accept that “others” will see it as nothing but a lifestyle choice.
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Old 01-21-23, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
It really bugs me that folk like you can't accept e-bikes as a valid bicycle choice for others.
It doesn't bug me that some feel that way. I don't agree with him on all points, but I understand.
Two of my friends ride e-road bikes. He has a heart issue and got one for his wife, too. They are safe and fun to ride with, never a real problem.

I've considered it but I always tell people I want to wait until I turn 70. It's a little over a year away now. Yikes.
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Old 01-21-23, 10:40 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by Classtime
I guess, theses days, with all of the misinformation, it is expected that some people will believe that choosing a motorized bike over a real bicycle is like choosing electronic shifting over mechanical or disk brakes over rim brakes. And now that the law where I ride states that motorbikes are equivalent to real bikes, I should just accept that “others” will see it as nothing but a lifestyle choice.
Oh I see you are one of those "smart" people that cannot be fooled like all the sheep. Massively irksome!
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Old 01-25-23, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
It really bugs me that folk like you can't accept e-bikes as a valid bicycle choice for others.
Semantics here, but IMHO, an e-bike is not a bicycle, as it has a drive motor that does some of the motive work for you. It’s not a motorcycle either, as it must be pedaled. To me, there are there categories: bicycles, e-bikes, and motorcycles.

And which anyone chooses to ride if their own business and up to them. Like BigJohn, I could see myself on an e-bike at some point in the future. Why not?
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Old 01-26-23, 04:45 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Biker395
Semantics here, but IMHO, an e-bike is not a bicycle, as it has a drive motor that does some of the motive work for you. It’s not a motorcycle either, as it must be pedaled. To me, there are there categories: bicycles, e-bikes, and motorcycles.

And which anyone chooses to ride if their own business and up to them. Like BigJohn, I could see myself on an e-bike at some point in the future. Why not?
I see what you mean. How about e-bicycle?
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Old 01-26-23, 06:25 AM
  #109  
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Eventually we'll run out of fuel for personal transport, so no, human powered cycling won't sunset.
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Old 01-26-23, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
I see what you mean. How about e-bicycle?
"E-bicycle" makes sense to me too.

I just think they are enough different from bicycles and motorcycles, they deserve their own category ... there is no need to shoehorn them into an existing technology. In the same light, I'm not fond of the notion of referring to bicycles as "acoustic."
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Old 01-27-23, 02:20 AM
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Will Human Power Cycling Sunset?
A key point that's hard to get around: basic cycling will remain as one of the more unstoppable methods of basic transportation. It's immune to electrical-grid loss, to floods, to famine, etc. Just takes a person and some pedaling (assuming the gear's in working shape, of course). Given that, I suspect traditional cycling won't ever die out. It's simple, clean and efficient, and about as low-cost as transportation gets (aside from basic walking).

Electrification of bikes is a fine concept. For many, it helps solve additional problems or desires. Ought to be an option, for those needing those aspects (ie, those with wonky legs that can't put the power down any other way). Out in the weeds, though, without easy access to a reliable grid, it'd hard to see how electrified bikes would overtake the traditional types. I'll almost certainly get one, at some point, as I have a leg that doesn't work properly post-injury and never will.

Options are good.
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Old 01-27-23, 01:01 PM
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I owned a car for six hours in 1983. Since then cars have been pretty much off the menu for me, a pedestrian/cyclist.

I bought an e-bike in 2016. It was an eye-opener that changed my life. It is my car. But it is not a bike. Bikes are a different thing.

Bikes are best. They saved my life.
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Old 01-28-23, 12:23 PM
  #113  
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Nah...the effort IS the juice!!

There's something satisfyingly visceral about bike biodynamics unencumbered by unearned Watts. Effort in... Performance out. As the Gods intended.

OTOH, it's a hoot when a little old lady [I'm 72.] sitting bolt upright on her 'lectric with her saddle slammed just smokes my sorry ass! So it goes...
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Old 01-28-23, 02:19 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
I see what you mean. How about e-bicycle?
How about EV like the autos.
In my neighborhood, along my commute that I have been doing for 20 years, the authorities have just last week marked a section of the MUP "WALK ONLY ZONE". This section of the path has more pedestrians compared to others but it has not been a problem until the electric motor bikers started flying through at 18-28 mph. Instead of enforcing the local code designating the MUP as no motor assisted bicycles as it is signed, they basically banned all bicycle riding. I believe that is called Collective Punishment. On the bright side, this action may encourage the motor bikes to drive on the street that is adjacent to the MUP where they can get ticketed for running lights and stop signs.

(I know that not all electric motor-bike drivers are rude, inconsiderate, selfish, dangerous drivers.)
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Old 01-28-23, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Classtime
How about EV like the autos.
In my neighborhood, along my commute that I have been doing for 20 years, the authorities have just last week marked a section of the MUP "WALK ONLY ZONE". This section of the path has more pedestrians compared to others but it has not been a problem until the electric motor bikers started flying through at 18-28 mph. Instead of enforcing the local code designating the MUP as no motor assisted bicycles as it is signed, they basically banned all bicycle riding. I believe that is called Collective Punishment. On the bright side, this action may encourage the motor bikes to drive on the street that is adjacent to the MUP where they can get ticketed for running lights and stop signs.

(I know that not all electric motor-bike drivers are rude, inconsiderate, selfish, dangerous drivers.)
Those are not the e-bikes we have in the UK. There is a big difference.
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Old 01-28-23, 11:15 PM
  #116  
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moped

Originally Posted by Biker395
Semantics here, but IMHO, an e-bike is not a bicycle, as it has a drive motor that does some of the motive work for you. It’s not a motorcycle either, as it must be pedaled. To me, there are there categories: bicycles, e-bikes, and motorcycles.

And which anyone chooses to ride if their own business and up to them. Like BigJohn, I could see myself on an e-bike at some point in the future. Why not?
the categories are Motorcycle, Bicycle and Moped (two wheels pedals and a motor)
whether it's a Frenchman with his 2 stroke motor sitting on the front wheel of his bicycle or some $3k electric gizmo as long as you can pedal it's a moped. Back in the late 1970's UK you could buy a 50cc Yamaha with pedals called an FS1E ,a fizzy, a good one is impossible to find nowadays, they could hit 50mph and a lot ended up wrapped around lamposts ! This is the path of the electric Moped, then this discussion will be interesting.
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Old 01-29-23, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by brixxton
the categories are Motorcycle, Bicycle and Moped (two wheels pedals and a motor)
whether it's a Frenchman with his 2 stroke motor sitting on the front wheel of his bicycle or some $3k electric gizmo as long as you can pedal it's a moped. Back in the late 1970's UK you could buy a 50cc Yamaha with pedals called an FS1E ,a fizzy, a good one is impossible to find nowadays, they could hit 50mph and a lot ended up wrapped around lamposts ! This is the path of the electric Moped, then this discussion will be interesting.
To me:

A moped is essentially a motorcycle. Yes, it has pedals, but you only pedal it to get it going, and after that you coast and the motor takes over without pedaling.

Contrast that with an ebike (at least the ones that are not throttle controlled), which stop providing power from the motor if pedaling ceases. Essentially, ebikes can be thought of as motorcycles with a sophisticated throttle that relies on pedal pressure. No pedal pressure, the motor stops. Pedal pressure, the motor goes, and does so in proportion to the pedal pressure.

Throttle controlled versions? Motorcycles.
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Old 01-29-23, 05:14 PM
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I think you have to discuss e-bikes which provide limited power assistance in proportion to your own manual pedal power separately from throttle controlled e-bikes. They are fundamentally different.

The former can turn an ordinary cyclist into an elite level cyclist, while the latter are basically electric mopeds. They appeal to different markets.
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Old 01-30-23, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Classtime
How about EV like the autos.
In my neighborhood, along my commute that I have been doing for 20 years, the authorities have just last week marked a section of the MUP "WALK ONLY ZONE". This section of the path has more pedestrians compared to others but it has not been a problem until the electric motor bikers started flying through at 18-28 mph. Instead of enforcing the local code designating the MUP as no motor assisted bicycles as it is signed, they basically banned all bicycle riding. I believe that is called Collective Punishment. On the bright side, this action may encourage the motor bikes to drive on the street that is adjacent to the MUP where they can get ticketed for running lights and stop signs.

(I know that not all electric motor-bike drivers are rude, inconsiderate, selfish, dangerous drivers.)
Since you are in LA, I am curious where that is. I have been thinking that Hermosa Beach was headed in that direction, but I haven't been down there in a while. If bicycles are banned outright, that would really suck.
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Old 01-30-23, 03:50 PM
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Nah! I cannot see an e-bike in my future.
I see an 80 y/o gent riding the same canyon hills as me and he takes his time but manages quite well.
Nothing wrong with getting slower as I age.
It truly is about the journey not the means.
If I cannot keep my balance, I will hike instead.
A lot of us will keep pedaling and not feel an e-bike is a panacea to aging.
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Old 01-30-23, 04:44 PM
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There are classes of electric bikes.

If it has no throttle, must be pedaled, minimal assist, motor shuts off at ~15mph, uses traditional road tires - then I call it an e-bike or e-road bike.
If it has a throttle, pedaling not required, strong heavy motor, speeds beyond 15mph, 3"+ tires, Then I call it a moped, with pedals.
YMMV

On topic:
Human power will, hopefully, never be relegated to the category of Sport. It is too much fun. Walking, hiking, running, biking just give us a positive buzz, even before one considers beautiful locations to exercise that human power.
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Old 01-31-23, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Classtime
I’d say most of us ride under 16 mph and if you loose 15 pounds off that bike, you won’t need the motor.
I'd say you're right that most people are riding between 8mph to 12mph and quite a few are doing as much as 16mph, but few are doing more and almost no one can do that as an average. But what if you wanted to? You would need a motor. AND you would need to work AS HARD as someone who does not have a motor but is content to cruise <16mph. Why is that a bad thing? They are working AS HARD. Maybe harder, than you? What if your JOB depended on you completing an 8mi one way in much less time than an unmotorized rider? Drive? What if you have macular degeneration and cannot pass the DMV eye exam? What if someone (not you) has a GOOD REASON for wanting a motor on their bike? You would begrudge them that? Human power cycling will not sunset, but is that the right question? Human driving will not sunset either. And all of us are going to be dead or wishing we were in less than 20 years because most of you (I did) wouldn't give up DRIVING for any reason whatsoever. This petty hatred of e-assisted bicycles is just a distraction. Y'all's know who the real enemy here is.
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Old 01-31-23, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Biker395
Since you are in LA, I am curious where that is. I have been thinking that Hermosa Beach was headed in that direction, but I haven't been down there in a while. If bicycles are banned outright, that would really suck.
Hermosa near the pier. Electric motorcycle riders have been flying through there no matter how crowded playing chicken with the rest of us. These riders are not just teens with surfboard racks but mature men and women on their way to or from happy hour. 6 foot letters are painted on the path "WALK ONLY ZONE" but I haven't witnessed any enforcement yet.
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Old 01-31-23, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood
There are classes of electric bikes.

If it has no throttle, must be pedaled, minimal assist, motor shuts off at ~15mph, uses traditional road tires - then I call it an e-bike or e-road bike.
If it has a throttle, pedaling not required, strong heavy motor, speeds beyond 15mph, 3"+ tires, Then I call it a moped, with pedals.
YMMV
In CA, Those "classes" are all e-bikes by statute. Class one and 2 cut off "assist" at 18mph. Class 3 cut off at 28. 15 is more reasonable but motorized wheelchair speeds should be the limit. I've done organized rides of 130+ multi surface miles with 10,000 feet of climbing where there are numerous cyclists with extreme physical disabilities complete the rides with smiles on their faces.
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Old 01-31-23, 07:33 AM
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