rsbob 

Would like to know who is using/has used a Zwift plan, and if so, which? Any comments on level of effort or results on conclusion of the plan?

I just started a Builder multi-week plan based on my FTP and started the first hour and a half session (after doing a 30 minute pedaling and cadence drill (low intensity) and had to abandon ship after an hour. Could have flogged myself to complete the session, but with my heart rate in the low 170s at the hour mark (Max HR is 190), didn’t think it would be prudent at 68 next month.

BTinNYC

I used them a couple of times.
My thoughts on your recent experience; your heartrate threshold and power thresholds are not aligned. Have you done an FTP test recently? If so, then maybe reduce the; Z2 top number, Z3, Z4, and Z5 bottom number.

<itsallaboutme>
I just started a TrainingPeaks paid plan (24 weeks, $75 IIFC) and I'm pretty sure their plan generating algorithm takes heartrate threshold into account along with FTP. These workouts have been more 'accurate' than any of the freebies I've done so far; hard enough that I want to quit but not so hard that I have to quit. The custom TP workouts show up in my Zwift.
</itsallaboutme>

MoAlpha

Two comments:

1. Make sure you’re being realistic about your FTP on that particular trainer.

2. Age, per se, is irrelevant to the safety of high-intensity exertion, but relevant to its prudent application in training.

rsbob 

Thanks for the replies. I did do an FTP test 2 days prior. Where I went wrong was doing a half hour of leg drills prior to the 1.5 hour workout. I did the full workout today and it went well. I was tired, but not completely spent at the end. I will continue with the program. Todays stats:

BTinNYC

Thats better.

pdlamb

Were you (virtually) flying or waterskiing?

BTinNYC

This isn't a triathlon app!

caloso

I did the 6 week Build Me Up plan when I first got Zwift. Works great if you have your FTP properly set and if you do all the workouts. I had a dumb Kinetic wheel-on trainer, so I didn't have the benefit of it holding the resistance through the intervals, but I think that forces you to focus if you have to try to keep the numbers black. Had a decent FTP bump by the end of the plan, which was nice because this was at a time when the air quality in NorCal made riding outside hazardous.

rsbob 

Very good to hear that I am investing my time wisely. Appreciate the response and congrats on your FTP bump

Hermes

Do I use Swift aka Zwift training plans….??? My training is targeted to road and track.

Trainer versus track (velodrome fixed gear) versus the the road.

I used to use a Kurt Kinetic dumb trainer with a larger fly wheel for indoor workouts. Recently, I got a Garmin Tacx smart trainer. I was motivated in part by some of my racing friends and BF racing forum members commenting that the smart trainers felt like riding on the road.

I find the indoor trainer smart or dumb to be a lot harder to make power for the same level of effort as the road. Example, 150 watts on the road feels doable/easy whereas 150 watts on the smart trainer feels hard.

The coaches I have used all have a derating factor for the trainer compared to the road either by shorting the duration of the workout or by derating FTP to equilibrate road, track and trainer level of effort feel and training stress. And the same is true for the track. A TSS of 100 at the track feels like a 150 road equivalent.

Why? I think it is neuromuscular in nature and how the muscles have to fire to support the trainer, fixed gear and the road and on the road climbing is different from flat riding as well as the elimination of almost all z1 from the workout for a trainer. The trainer offers zero micro rests.

Does that mean that riding the trainer is better than riding on the road and a better workout? I think the answer is more “form follows function”. If you get good at riding the trainer than riding in group rides on Zwift or Zwift racing is the way to go. Will you be a monster at the track from riding trainer? Probably not. If the goal is to get in better shape and not waste time, the trainer is ideal.

Does that mean that one needs a different FTP for the trainer, track and the road as well as different bikes i.e. TT versus road? All I know is the my best FTP result is climbing a constant grade hill on the road of approximately 4 to 5% on the hoods of my road bike and is not reproducible on the TT bike, at the track or indoors. That is pretty specific.

Hey Hermes, what about the Zwift training plans? You got me. I do not use application training plans but if they work for the achievement of the training / fitness goal, then great. But yet another way to have fun on the bike.

rsbob 

A couple of grips about Zwift is that even though one is theoretically doing hill climbs (not in a training package) it does not translate into being a better climber when one hits the real roads. This was evident last spring after a winter of unfocused Zwift riding. What a let down. Although I was a great pedal masher and could improve my average speeds on the flats.

Another regarding the Build me Up plan is that I don’t see much in the way of Zone 1 and 2 rest/endurance spinning. I have done three workouts and they just ramp up the difficulty and duration. As a result I am introducing my own Zone1/2 to keep from frying myself. This may counter the purpose of Build me Up but a senior does not have the infinite reserves of a 20 year old. I know it is based on FTP but recovery takes longer with age and it would be nice if that was factored into the plans.

spelger

so one thing i learned recently finishing up my FulGaz subscription doing their climbing training was to peddle at a lower cadence. well, lower for me anyway. my typical cadence is 90 -100. the training had me at 80. once FulGaz ended (last week) i started Rouvy again and i find that i can ride the grades seated much longer before the need to stand. last night for example i was going up a grade that included about 50 meters of 13%. i am pretty sure i could not have done that seated before. now later in the ride i did need to stand once because dammit i just got tired for that other 13%er.

i did the build me up long ago and did not see an improvement which was a disappointment. also did not like that if a workout was missed it ws not possible to do it later in the program. sometimes life prevents you from doing stuff.

i can't recall the zwift interface to workouts but i think it was better than fulgazes. Rouvy has workouts but no plans that i can see. and i don't think rouvy prompts for cadence which is what i think benefited me using fulgaz

rsbob 

Good thoughts. After doing a couple of workouts I have learned that my usual cadence, about 82, is way too slow for what is required by the workouts. They typically want 90+ and at times up to 110 for the ‘overs’ which I find almost impossibly fast. I know that its better to use the heart while spinning fast rather than powering with the legs (hero climbing) and that ‘spinning is winning’ but it is really pushing me out of my comfort zone of 30+ years, but know I can get there. But what is the point of spinning at 110 and doing out of the saddle climbs with very little resistance at 60 RPM? IRL when I climb out of the saddle there is a ton of resistance and very low cadence - or will it all reveal itself with time? I sure hope so.

BTinNYC

I find the same, and usually do my own warm up before the workout. Takes me 10 minutes to get spinning at 85-95 rpm, and jumping in before warmed is no bueno.

rsbob 

As a result of missing a workout to recover, it simply disappeared just like spelger said. An it was the hour and 45 min one I rested for. Not like its not sitting on a server. Very strange.

rsbob 

True confession time. I ditched the Build Me Up plan as it was kicking my ass. I’d do a couple of workouts and need a rest day. As a result Zwift would delete a day in the plan forever. Add that to my complaints above and it was time for a change - besides, reading the Mid-Life Cyclist convinced me that doing high intensity intervals wasn’t doing my endurance any favors. So I changed plans to Grand Fondo. It is less intense and geared more to the long distance riding I enjoy punctuated with hill climbs. Have done four so far and they still take me above my functional threshold but not to the same level.

BTinNYC

Just started this book and the writing is surprisingly good!

bblair

FOR ME, the workouts are very difficult and get mentally exhausting real fast. And yes, I have done FTP tests.

So, in the winter, I might Zwift 3 times a week, but just 1 of them is a workout or race. If it's too hard, it stops being fun. Rode a TT on Saturday, nothing Sunday, then Monday just rode around for an hour looking for the hidden bears and dinosaurs in the Sequoias.

spelger

this was probably the #1 reason why i didn't like the zwift work out plans. sometimes life throws a curve ball at you and priorities change for the short term.