DaveLeeNC

This crossed my mind today while I was pedaling on my indoor bike. It would seem that the number of ftp watts that I have lost since age 65 (now age 73) is almost exactly the same as the distance that I have lost with my driver on the golf course (in yards). It is around 35 in both cases. Fascinating somehow and also discouraging somehow.

dave

skidder

I'll never find out about that comparison. I only play golf once every decade, and that's to remind myself how much I hate it.

"Golf is a Good Walk Spoiled" - Mark Twain

Carbonfiberboy 

I think the two are, at base, unrelated. The loss of FTP is aerobic. The loss of yards is neuromuscular. The neuromuscular loss can be regained, or most of it, IME. The aerobic loss, not so much.

It's more like the relationship between your mile run and how high you can jump. I've been in the gym now for about 8 weeks. My full squat for reps has gone from 60 lbs. to 150, my bodyweight. That's more that I did in my 50s. What?? Well, in my 50s I worked more on aerobic and put in a lot less time in the gym per week. Now my doc has temporarily (I hope) restricted my aerobic upper limit, so I'm working more on what's left, strength.

You could google "strength training for golf swing". And of course just swing and hit the driving range. Of course I'm not a golfer and maybe you've already done all that. It just seems to me that we can get better at what we work on, even now. There's also HMB. I wouldn't have gained that much strength that quickly without it. I'm fighting back with all the tools I've run across.

Re aerobics - I will say that the pedals have become a lot lighter since my legs have gotten stronger. My HR drift has become a lot less over time. Since I've been limited as to HR, I've been doing a lot of Z2 on my rollers.

Random11

That's the trouble with monitoring your performance and keeping score. I ran the same 10 mile race every year for 29 years, until I reached age 67 and couldn't run anymore due to knee issues. I always felt like I was running just as fast as ever, but I kept a record of my times and that wasn't the case. Discouraging. I took up cycling in place of the running I used to do and if anything I feel like I'm going faster than ever. But I don't monitor my performance. No Strava, no GPS, no power meter, no heart rate monitor. Just me and my bike. Not discouraging.

SurferRosa

It's waay easier to ride a bike with a rotator cuff injury. But shooting pain in that area can still be excruciating and slow you down.

If the pain is knee related, then golf is probably the better choice, given the course has a liberal cart policy (ie: not path only).

DaveLeeNC

Speed in a golf swing (same as distance) is considered a fast twitch thing while ftp is clearly a mostly slow twitch thing. But if you do training to 'get those yards back' that you lost from age 63 to 73 (as an example), all that really means is that you were less efficient at 63 than 73 (IMHO).

But that does bring up a valid point. My age 65 reflects kind of the point at which I transitioned from serious golfer and less than serious biker to the other way around. 10 years ago I had a club in my hands 6 days a week and worked hard on my golf game and maybe got 4-5 hours a week in on my bike, but I did tend to ride hard with not much Z2 stuff. Now it is around double that on the bike, I play one round a week and other than a few chips shots or plastic golf balls in the back yard, not much else.

I doubt that my fundamental golf mechanics are any different due to that severe drop in practice time, but it probably does affect my golf fitness. Right now I am fighting spinal stenosis, severe arthritis in my left shoulder, and am bone on bone in both knees. It would take a really competent PT type to design a program that I could follow safely. I don't know how to find such a person and WAY more important would not know how to find out if I had NOT found such a person. Shoulder pain was like #6 on my list of 'things that hurt' until I innocently tried to swap planks in place of crunches as a core exercise. That was 6 months ago and at this point shoulder pain is my MOST limiting problem in daily life (and on the golf course and on the bike). I am not doing that again so I am very cautious about doing 'stuff that hurts' (and that is a lot of stuff).

dave

Speedskater

If you measured the golf driving distances in meters, then this thread would not exist.

DaveLeeNC

If you think that the internet can be a source of bad cycling training advice, you should check out internet-based golf swing advice.

dave

Carbonfiberboy 

How would I know?

PeteHski

Okay so 35 Chickens vs 35 rabbits or whatever incompatible units. How do these losses look as a percentage change, because that would be ever so slightly more comparable? i.e. have you lost the same percentage of your peak FTP vs your peak golf driving range?

DaveLeeNC

If you are familiar with both sports you will know that ftp and drive distance occupy the same numerical range. For example Bradley Wiggins "one hour test ftp" when he set the one hour ride record in 2015 was 440 watts. The longest winning drive in the World Long Drive Championships was 435 yards (in 2017). In my case the two numbers are (and remain) about 5% apart.

PeteHski

That's what I was wondering as I'm not a golfer. So are you saying you have lost the same percentage of your FTP as you have golf yardage?

DaveLeeNC

Yep - a tad under 15% in both cases. What is interesting is that despite them being driven by very different types of skills (albeit both are physical skills), the decline seems to be similar. It stands out a bunch more on the golf course because distance is what you experience. On a bike your direct experience is speed and a 15% decline in power is not a 15% decline in speed (other than up hills). But there is that damn power meter staring you in the face

dave

ps. FWIW, the important parameters for golf distance are fast twitch muscles, your technique is a HUGE factor (absolutely HUGE), and flexibility is important. ftp on bike - mostly different stuff.

PeteHski

Interesting observations. As a an ex-football (soccer) player, I really noticed the loss of acceleration and sprint speed in my late 30s. Far more than any physical loss on my bike.

Bald Paul

I had to give up golf. After 348 strokes trying to get past that stupid little windmill, the mini golf operator told me it was time to close and I should just leave.

jppe

I’ve played golf 60 years and cycled 20 years. I’ve intentionally avoided measuring the metrics like power and swing speed but definitely track overall results. Interestingly both activities peaked in my mid 50’s. I set lots of PR’s cycling, riding with A groups, etc. I was hitting the golf ball further than ever. I noticed things starting to change in my early 60’s. And even more changes in about 5 year increments afterwards.

However with golf, I’m scoring as well as ever. The improved scoring is probably due to playing so frequently. What I’ve found is I don’t hit the ball as far, but as long as I’m hitting it solid it’s plenty far enough. I have clubs I can use where the ball will still go up to 230 yards so it’s just a matter of hitting a longer club. For me scoring depends on how well I chip and putt, which I’ve gotten really good at. My putting has been ridiculously good at times…..my buddies just laugh at some of the putts I’d make on a regular basis.

Cycling on the other hand has seen some pretty dramatic dips lately. I’ve ridden the least amount this year than in almost the last 20 years and it really shows. It’s hard for me to tell how much of the decline is age related vs just not training like I’ve always done. My goal is to get back to easily riding 60-100 milers on a regular basis. I don’t mind being a little slower, but I just want to be able to finish without struggling. It’s definitely a race against time…..

PeteHski

I guess the depressing end game here is that both our biking FTP and golf yardage inevitably decline to zero sooner or later!

PeteHski

I'm in my mid 50s at the moment and for cycling I've found much the same. Despite being well past my physical prime, I do enough cycling and focused training to actually outperform my younger, less committed self. I'm not looking forward to the inevitable decline over the next couple of decades - if I go the distance.

jppe

From my experience the focused training is the real key. As you know the training can be challenging and taxing but very rewarding once you get there. Sustaining the higher level seems like the real key. It’s so, so easy to let the conditioning slip and once it does, it’s harder to get it back. I had a forced layoff a few years ago when I crashed and broke a hip resulting in an immediate hip replacement. I was in peak shape and could still hang with the faster riders, at least for a while. I lost both cardio and some leg/hip strength. As you know it can be really hard to get in peak shape, a good bit of suffering involved. I just didn’t feel the motivation to get all that back. Just more suffering than I wanted to do. It’s also harder to get the conditioning back the older I get. I was able to get back riding distances but definitely at a little slower pace.

A second layoff occurred this year due to the distractions from selling and moving. Miles are probably the lowest it’s been in 20 years. More conditioning was lost. But shouldn’t have any excuses left, unless it’s due to spending so much time playing golf and relaxing on the beach!!!

Anyway, lessons learned, avoid letting your conditioning slip and it’s harder to get in peak shape as you age……

PeteHski

I think that's good advice. I try to train at a "sustainable" level and follow an annual plan based around my target events. So I'm not trying to hold an unrealistic peak indefinitely. Nor do I ever let my performance drop right off a cliff. Right now in my off-season I'm probably at about 80% of my peak potential. I'm actually recovering from a week of flu, so probably at my lowest point all year, but I don't feel like I have a mountain to climb. I can see how a major injury or life change would potentially break this routine. It's one of the reasons why I train mainly indoors over the worst of the winter weather i.e. reduce the risk of injury.

rydabent

These days golfing has very little exercise. It seems a high percentage use golf carts.

I worked with a small group of guys, and we golfed a lot. All of them retired before I did, and they thot when I retired I would resume golfing with them. When I did retire, they had medical problems and always rented a cart. So I took up biking a lot more. All but one of them are younger, and have quit golf because of physical problems. OTOH I still bike 20 to 35 miles every other day at 84, and am in far better health. Conclusion while I am blessed with good health, I contribute a lot of it to the physical exercise of biking. Stepping in and out of a golf cart and walking a few feet is not much exercise at all.

DaveLeeNC

All my doctors are adamanet about keep up my activity level. That is a struggle as arthritis seems to be taking over all my joints, but so far cycling (with regular injections and a very expensive knee brace) remains a mostly daily activity. I have not tested anything past 40 miles lately, but up to that point things are manageable.

I was walking and carrying my clubs until spinal stenosis hit 2 years ago (yet more arthritis - this time in the lumbar area). At this point I honestly don't know if walking/carrying is harmful or not (stenosis is in remission at the moment and I am really afraid of changing that). Neither my doctors or PT's seem confident in their assessment of that risk. What is interesting is that a round of golf on a cart for me is typically around 7500 steps. A round of golf walking with my bag is around 9500 steps. I still prefer walking (even if it is not significantly more exercise) just because.

Congratulations on keeping things up at your level and age!!

dave

dave

blacknbluebikes 

Never has cycling made me ask "Am I always going to suck at this and look like an idiot?"

canklecat

I gave up golf in high school after nearly decapitating a partner who began walking down the fairway while I was teeing up. I was mentally regurgitating the coach's list of steps, including keeping my head down after I'd initially scanned the fairway for people. I had no idea my partner would just begin strolling down the fairway.

He assumed I was good enough to hit well over his head. Apparently he'd never seen me play. Not once had I ever hit a proper shot off the tee. Like my baseball at-bats, I was a line driver. Fortunately he was quite short for his age and I missed him by a few inches.

The only other sports I played that involved striking a ball were baseball, racquetball and tennis. As baseball players go, I was a good outfielder. And I kept the other side busy with shagging ground balls and line drives. I was pretty good at racquetball.

But in tennis solo matches I hit a lot of home runs out of the court, something I rarely managed to do in baseball. And in doubles I managed to hit my partner in the back of the head at least once a match, usually two or three times.

Clearly, my background in amateur boxing was a terrible influence on my attempts to play ball sports.

As far as I can remember, I've never hit anyone with my bicycle. I've been hit by cars a few times. But generally speaking, friends are safer around me on a bike than with a ball.

rydabent

Your doctor is absolutely right. If you set you rust.