Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Fifty Plus (50+)
Reload this Page >

Jim Fixx, big mistake! Nutrition/exercise for health. %/%????

Notices
Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

Jim Fixx, big mistake! Nutrition/exercise for health. %/%????

Old 01-17-23, 03:19 PM
  #51  
pbass
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,147

Bikes: 2016 Surly Cross Check, 2019 Kona Rove ST

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 269 Post(s)
Liked 300 Times in 200 Posts
Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
I wasn't talking about eating cheeseburgers from MacDonalds and then loading up with milkshakes and desserts afterwards...I am talking about home cooking. How the meat is cooked and prepared and what it is combined with during a meal can make a difference if it's healthy or not.
And the quality of the meat is important. Best to try and only consume antibiotic-free meat. And this is not just because of the potential for antibiotic resistance. Flouroquinolone antibiotics, for example Cipro, are used in factory meat and poultry. Read about what that does to your body. For one, it destroys mitochondria in connective tissue (more quickly for some than for others). So it is essentially aging you prematurely. Years, heck decades, of putting even small amounts of that in your body will take a toll. Fortunately, it's getting easier and easier to find antibiotic-free meat and poultry in grocery stores. Fast food, not so much.
pbass is offline  
Old 01-19-23, 10:15 AM
  #52  
Flip Flop Rider
Senior Member
 
Flip Flop Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 2,075

Bikes: 2010 Fuji Absolute 3.0 1994 Trek 850

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 752 Post(s)
Liked 542 Times in 311 Posts
Genetics matter as well
Flip Flop Rider is offline  
Old 01-22-23, 01:12 PM
  #53  
Classtime 
Senior Member
 
Classtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,958

Bikes: 82 Medici, 2011 Richard Sachs, 2011 Milwaukee Road

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1576 Post(s)
Liked 1,273 Times in 759 Posts
If you are interested in nutrition to maximize health, consider
https://nutritionfacts.org
If you insist on consuming meat and dairy products, this site may be useful to you nevertheless.
__________________
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
Classtime is online now  
Old 01-22-23, 07:01 PM
  #54  
rsbob 
😵‍💫
 
rsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 3,984
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1564 Post(s)
Liked 2,931 Times in 1,666 Posts
Gave up red meat and pork and processed meat years ago and frankly don’t miss it. Was a big lover of steaks, but with the hormones, antibiotics, and impact on the environment (methane and deforestation by Latin American beef producers) no more.

Still eat plenty of fish and some chicken, but get my protein from a variety of sources which is very important for senior athletes.
__________________
Road and Mountain 🚴🏾‍♂️



rsbob is offline  
Likes For rsbob:
Old 01-22-23, 07:26 PM
  #55  
MoAlpha
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 10,928

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9013 Post(s)
Liked 4,932 Times in 2,632 Posts
I dont feel great about meat, but we eat it a couple-three times a week. Theres just no other easy way to meet protein requirements for two elderly athletes without ingesting a huge caloric load and that seems to me the best health trade-off for us. We pay through the nose for a monthly delivery from a local producer of grass fed beef and forest raised pork. This is for environmental and humane reasons. I buy exactly none of the health claims.
MoAlpha is online now  
Likes For MoAlpha:
Old 01-23-23, 07:10 AM
  #56  
Classtime 
Senior Member
 
Classtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,958

Bikes: 82 Medici, 2011 Richard Sachs, 2011 Milwaukee Road

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1576 Post(s)
Liked 1,273 Times in 759 Posts
Plenty of protein for ANY athlete in plants. Highly recommend the movie The Game Changers.
__________________
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
Classtime is online now  
Old 01-23-23, 10:53 AM
  #57  
MoAlpha
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 10,928

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9013 Post(s)
Liked 4,932 Times in 2,632 Posts
Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
Plenty of protein for ANY athlete in plants.
Yes, sure, and you can grow them all too if you have the time and inclination.
MoAlpha is online now  
Old 01-23-23, 03:50 PM
  #58  
Classtime 
Senior Member
 
Classtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,958

Bikes: 82 Medici, 2011 Richard Sachs, 2011 Milwaukee Road

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1576 Post(s)
Liked 1,273 Times in 759 Posts
Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Yes, sure, and you can grow them all too if you have the time and inclination.
Given the time and inclination you can learn how easy it is to eat only plants. The fact is that no one needs to eat meat or dairy. As a smoker, I can say it is easier to continue smoking.
__________________
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
Classtime is online now  
Old 01-23-23, 04:40 PM
  #59  
MoAlpha
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 10,928

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9013 Post(s)
Liked 4,932 Times in 2,632 Posts
Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
Given the time and inclination you can learn how easy it is to eat only plants. The fact is that no one needs to eat meat or dairy. As a smoker, I can say it is easier to continue smoking.
Yes, it's easy to cook vegan and we do it a couple of nights a week. Tonight, for instance, I'm making tofu with ginger and scallions and sauted bok choi. What's not so easy, at least for me, is being a fully employed professional and planning and preparing meal after meal with the full set of essential amino acids, which don't involve soy every time, and which are palatable and varied enough to be pleasant to eat.
MoAlpha is online now  
Old 01-23-23, 05:11 PM
  #60  
wolfchild
Senior Member
 
wolfchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,127

Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3574 Post(s)
Liked 2,050 Times in 1,046 Posts
Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
Plenty of protein for ANY athlete in plants. Highly recommend the movie The Game Changers.
Nothing but propaganda and misinformation.
wolfchild is offline  
Likes For wolfchild:
Old 01-23-23, 05:51 PM
  #61  
Classtime 
Senior Member
 
Classtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,958

Bikes: 82 Medici, 2011 Richard Sachs, 2011 Milwaukee Road

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1576 Post(s)
Liked 1,273 Times in 759 Posts
Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Nothing but propaganda and misinformation.
It actually refutes propaganda and misinformation in an easily consumed format.

And I agree that the adjustment from the S. A. D. Takes some effort. My Virginia tobacco was pleasant but hard to find in CA.

Last edited by Classtime; 01-23-23 at 06:07 PM.
Classtime is online now  
Old 01-24-23, 06:09 AM
  #62  
Richard Cranium
Senior Member
 
Richard Cranium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Rural Missouri - mostly central and southeastern
Posts: 3,000

Bikes: 2003 LeMond -various other junk bikes

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 31 Times in 28 Posts
I think we all keep our own private "diet/exercise" balance sheets.

For many years I maintained a training volume in excess of professional Ironman triathletes. A considerable amount of my diet was drinking 4 or 5 or mores beers.

I liked Jim Fixx, and his book was inspiring to me. Luckily - I had better genes for dealing with my exercise/booze "balance."

The facts are - for a few people - exercise does ameliorate the effects of a high cholesterol diet. But that hardly means its a good idea to ignore any aspects of your health.
Richard Cranium is offline  
Likes For Richard Cranium:
Old 01-24-23, 06:55 AM
  #63  
Jeff Neese
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,031
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 743 Post(s)
Liked 380 Times in 256 Posts
Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
Given the time and inclination you can learn how easy it is to eat only plants. The fact is that no one needs to eat meat or dairy. As a smoker, I can say it is easier to continue smoking.
Humans are naturally omnivores, going back to the very beginning of our species. Wherever and whenever meat was available to eat, we did. That's the "Hunting" part of Hunting and Gathering. It is most natural for us to eat meat.
Jeff Neese is online now  
Old 01-24-23, 12:12 PM
  #64  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 5,463

Bikes: Scott Addict R1

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1943 Post(s)
Liked 1,876 Times in 984 Posts
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
The facts are - for a few people - exercise does ameliorate the effects of a high cholesterol diet. But that hardly means its a good idea to ignore any aspects of your health.
If I've understood the studies, exercise doesn't seem to prevent the formation of plaques in your coronary arteries. In fact, intense exercise may increase the amount of plaque.

But exercise apparently produces hardened plaques, which are less likely to break off, form a clot, and cause a heart attack.

Those hardened plaques may explain why exercise of any kind reduces the risk of heart attack.
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat

terrymorse is offline  
Likes For terrymorse:
Old 01-25-23, 12:16 AM
  #65  
Classtime 
Senior Member
 
Classtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,958

Bikes: 82 Medici, 2011 Richard Sachs, 2011 Milwaukee Road

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1576 Post(s)
Liked 1,273 Times in 759 Posts
Originally Posted by Jeff Neese View Post
Humans are naturally omnivores, going back to the very beginning of our species. Wherever and whenever meat was available to eat, we did. That's the "Hunting" part of Hunting and Gathering. It is most natural for us to eat meat.
Got a link to the analysis of earliest human remains and evidence of their diet including as much meat as the S. A. D. ?
__________________
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
Classtime is online now  
Old 02-25-23, 04:04 PM
  #66  
OldTryGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SW Fl.
Posts: 5,465

Bikes: Day6 Semi Recumbent "FIREBALL", 1981 Custom Touring Paramount, 1983 Road Paramount, 2013 Giant Propel Advanced SL3, 2018 Specialized Red Roubaix Expert mech., 2002 Magna 7sp hybrid, 1976 Bassett Racing 45sp Cruiser

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1009 Post(s)
Liked 682 Times in 438 Posts
Having Prostate Cancer(PCa), some leaky valves, half a thyroid, Red cell issues, arthritis since the '80's, oh yeah and the issues from an Orchiectomy thanks to the PCa, diet and exercise is Paramount. Eat and drink what fulfills your desires and enjoy life the best you can.
OldTryGuy is offline  
Likes For OldTryGuy:
Old 02-25-23, 06:38 PM
  #67  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 18,877

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 113 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3581 Post(s)
Liked 1,573 Times in 1,149 Posts
Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
I dont feel great about meat, but we eat it a couple-three times a week. Theres just no other easy way to meet protein requirements for two elderly athletes without ingesting a huge caloric load and that seems to me the best health trade-off for us. We pay through the nose for a monthly delivery from a local producer of grass fed beef and forest raised pork. This is for environmental and humane reasons. I buy exactly none of the health claims.
Chocolate flavored whey protein, after breakfast and dinner plus a little before and after workouts. Do you know of a downside?
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Likes For Carbonfiberboy:
Old 02-25-23, 10:31 PM
  #68  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 5,463

Bikes: Scott Addict R1

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1943 Post(s)
Liked 1,876 Times in 984 Posts
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Chocolate flavored whey protein, after breakfast and dinner plus a little before and after workouts. Do you know of a downside?
Other than being yummy, none that I can think of. But I try to get my protein from food.

As far as the "can't consume adequate meatless protein without eating too many calories" idea, I don't see that. My daily "elderly athlete" dietary requirement is 2500-3000 Calories. Plenty of room in there for egg whites, fat-free Greek yogurt, peanut butter, soy milk beverage. It can be work to get enough Calories.
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat

terrymorse is offline  
Old 02-26-23, 06:49 AM
  #69  
MoAlpha
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 10,928

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9013 Post(s)
Liked 4,932 Times in 2,632 Posts
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Chocolate flavored whey protein, after breakfast and dinner plus a little before and after workouts. Do you know of a downside?
Nothing that could possibly negate the upside. I do the same, except not with workouts. I think thats been largely abandoned by experts.
MoAlpha is online now  
Likes For MoAlpha:
Old 02-26-23, 07:20 AM
  #70  
GhostRider62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 3,486
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2047 Post(s)
Liked 1,708 Times in 1,093 Posts
I never followed this thread and now that so much content is deleted, the thread isn't clear. Fixx was a smoker, drinker, fat, stressful job, two divorces, his dad died at 43 from a heart attack, and he lived in NYC. Meat killed him. Ok.

3 months post covid, I cannot taste anything. Anyone know where I can get bugs to eat. I hear they are the next thing. Soy is so 1970's.

Older athletes need more grams of protein per Kg per day than younger athletes. At 90Kg and training heavily, I need close to 180 grams. I do not have time or inclination to do that with plants. Eggs from the farmer down the street and chicken are my favorite sources. High quality grass fed beef got too expensive for me.
GhostRider62 is offline  
Old 02-26-23, 10:00 AM
  #71  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 5,463

Bikes: Scott Addict R1

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1943 Post(s)
Liked 1,876 Times in 984 Posts
Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Older athletes need more grams of protein per Kg per day than younger athletes. At 90Kg and training heavily, I need close to 180 grams. I do not have time or inclination to do that with plants.
2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight is far more than the recommendations I have found.

Do you have a source for this recommendation?
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat

terrymorse is offline  
Old 02-26-23, 10:06 AM
  #72  
MoAlpha
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 10,928

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9013 Post(s)
Liked 4,932 Times in 2,632 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight is far more than the recommendations I have found.

Do you have a source for this recommendation?
Some influential studies showed anabolic resistance in older people, meaning higher amino acid concentrations are required to stimulate or support protein synthesis in muscle. Hence the 2 g number. However, more recent data suggest that lifelong endurance athletes may retain their sensitivity and efficiency of muscle protein synthesis, so consensus is now sliding back to 1.8 ish or something closer to the recommended intake for younger endurance folks, as I understand it.
MoAlpha is online now  
Likes For MoAlpha:
Old 02-26-23, 10:29 AM
  #73  
GhostRider62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 3,486
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2047 Post(s)
Liked 1,708 Times in 1,093 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight is far more than the recommendations I have found.

Do you have a source for this recommendation?
I am not making any recommendation.

There have been studies with 1.8 g/kg/day for old athletes but not many. How many 65 year olds exercise hard and often. Is 1.5 sufficient? I have no idea. I just do not have the patience or time to meet my needs with plants. That is all.

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...Younger_Selves
GhostRider62 is offline  
Likes For GhostRider62:
Old 02-26-23, 11:14 AM
  #74  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 5,463

Bikes: Scott Addict R1

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1943 Post(s)
Liked 1,876 Times in 984 Posts
Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Some influential studies showed “anabolic resistance” in older people, meaning higher amino acid concentrations are required to stimulate or support protein synthesis in muscle. Hence the 2 g number. However, more recent data suggest that lifelong endurance athletes may retain their sensitivity and efficiency of muscle protein synthesis, so consensus is now sliding back to 1.8 ish or something closer to the recommended intake for younger endurance folks, as I understand it.
Thanks. After some digging, I think I found the review article that the "1.8 g/kg -- same as younger athletes" recommendation probably comes from:

Table 1 Recommended meal protein intakes for Master athletes



Endurance training - Considerations
  • Target a daily intake of ~ 1.8 g/kg/day with adequate energy
  • Include ~ 10% buffer with lower quality proteins (e.g. plant-based)
  • Requirements may be increased ~ 10 to 15% with low carbohydrate availability training
  • If tolerable, target last meal ~ 1 to 2 h before sleep

Conclusion



Similar to their younger peers, Master athletes should ensure their nutrition plans include adequate dietary protein intake to support their training and recovery. Fortunately, current evidence does not support the need for higher protein intakes than what is currently recommended for and developed in younger athletes as much of the discussion on increased protein requirements in older adults to offset any age-related anabolic resistance is of little relevance to highly active Master athletes.


-- Moore, Daniel R. "Protein requirements for master athletes: just older versions of their younger selves." Sports Medicine 51.Suppl 1 (2021): 13-30.
That 1.8 is a bit of a mystery number, also, which comes with a footnote:

Daily protein targets extracted from studies that have not specifically used a summative target meal protein approach for maximizing muscle protein synthesis

To summarize: Masters athletes should eat the same amount of protein as young athletes.

(I think I'll start a once-a-day protein smoothie, just to cover the bases.)
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat

terrymorse is offline  
Likes For terrymorse:
Old 02-26-23, 11:28 AM
  #75  
merca
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2022
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by glanmit View Post
Same here, but i was never a big fan of red meat. I eat some chicken or fish 1-2 times per week maximum
I can't say that I'm a big fan of red meat, though I eat it twice a week. The same with chicken and fish. I alternate these products to diversify my nutrition. When I started my weight loss journey, I understood that it is important to set small achievable goals. So I changed my diet, how I still eat what I love, but in different amounts and not so often. Also, learning about my Resting Metabolic Rate turned out to be helpful (you can check the info here https://betterme.world/articles/resting-calories/ if interested). It allows me to better plan my weight loss regime.

Last edited by merca; 02-27-23 at 06:53 PM.
merca is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.