Road Fan

Brooks made leather dressing based on tallow and cod oils, but now it’s mainly vegetable/plant based oils and waxes. Does the modern Proofide work as well as the old tallow stiff?

in the market today are products seeming to be based on neetsfoot oil (from Feibing’s and others) and mink oil (from Feibing’s and Andalus among others).

In addition we have fully vegetable products, such as Obenauf’s.

What are modern Bobs choosing and preferring for leather saddle conditioning, to prepare for a summer of training, touring, and climbing, or to bring new live into valued classics? I currently like B17, Professional and Swallow Selects, and vintage Ideale 80, 90, and 92.

The 17, Swallow, and the 90 are responding well to older tallow-based Proofide, but I’m running out of it, and need to choose a substitute. I suspect that the animal products are all pretty similar.

But, what have the other Bobs found?

JohnDThompson 

I haven't had any problems with the new-production Proofide, but it is expensive. I've also had good luck with SnoSeal, which is just beeswax in a volatile carrier. The carrier allows the beeswax to penetrate deeper into the leather, then evaporates and leaves the beeswax behind.

79pmooney

+1 to SnoSeal. I haven't owned an all leather seat in 4 decades but have used it on belts, shoes and many other leather items I want to protect, keep soft but not have its shape change.

I've switched to Obenauf's Heavy Duty LP at the advice of the excellent local cobbler. I believe it is also beeswax based and it behaves similarly. (The lettering on the tub is worn off so I cannot read it.) Both are good stuff. If I could not find the new stuff, I'd go back to SnoSeal in a flash. I stay far from neatsfoot and mink oil on any leather I want to keep its shape.

streetsurfer

I like Tanner's Preserve- Automotive leather seat cleaner and conditioner

all my leathers get it from car seats to razor strops to motorcycle leathers

50PlusCycling

For horse and bicycle saddles, neatsfoot oil (I used to buy it by the gallon) and glycerine saddle soap, the kind in honey-colored bars, not the stuff Kiwi sells in tins, are the way to go. Since leather is not a vegetable product, I don’t fret over using animal products to treat it. Leather isn’t a sophisticated substance, and it doesn’t take sophisticated products to maintain it.

HelpSingularity 

In my experience neatsfoot oil will let the leather on the saddle stretch too much so you get the saggy, splayed out saddle syndrome and kinda ruin the saddle.
Again, IMHO, concerning the other products, too little is better than too much.
Unfortunately I've had to learn these things the hard way, don't be like me.

I-Like-To-Bike

Did the OP mistakenly post his question to "modern Bobs" on the 50+ list?" The C&V list seems the appropriate place for an ode to "Bobs" preparing for a summer of training, touring, and climbing, and bringing life to valued classics.

Jeff Neese

I just use Kiwi saddle soap on my leather saddles, as well as my leather shoes and boots. It's been working fine for years, and by years I mean decades. I own four leather saddles and they're all pretty old.

Road Fan

Yes, but so what?

freeranger

Seems some of the products that used to be good are not so great these days. I was going to recommend Lexol, which we used to recondition a very dry western leather horse saddle decades ago. But when we used it, it was made in USA, but now made in China. Also, from reading reviews, seems that it also now stinks and doesn't work like it used to. So, whatever product you consider, you might want to read some current reviews. Hoping if I need to use it, that my old container of Lexol is still useable.

Road Fan

I respect the reputation of SnoSeal, years ago when I worked for Eddie Bauer it was a highly respected and trusted product even among Chicago's oudoorsmen. I bought a jar of it maybe 45 years ago, when I recently opened it I got a strong chemical smell which I did not remember (from 45 years ago????). Any case I don't think I'm going to try it, and I have enough partial tins of shoe stuff around that I think I would never use it. My leather hiking boots just ate up some Obenauf's two years ago, so I don't think I have a use for the SnoSeal. Beeswax is cergainly a great natural product, but if it's enough, why isn't Brooks more heavily focused on it?

JohnDThompson 

Beeswax is a component of Proofide, along with other natural components like tallow, cod oil, vegetable oil, and citronella oil. The only petroleum-derived component is paraffin wax.

Jjbailey930

Connolly Hide Care was the best conditioner I used for my leather seats to bring back suppleness. Lanolin base cream. Then you need to protect it. Good luck

Road Fan

Yes, it's present in THAT Proofide, which is the one I like. But notice the first ingredient, presumably in contains more of the first than of the others, is tallow, and beeswax is farther down on the list.That can is not shown on Brooks' site any more and is not shown on Ebay or Amazon. Presently it's hard to find. Hence my problem.

I'm not really interested in beeswax, rather I want the tallow.

Wildwood

I use Saddle Butter from Holes Leather Care Products. Butte, Montana. Since 1936.

From the description:
Beeswax, Brazilian carnuba wax, tallows, pure neatsfoot oil. No modern synthetics, mineral oils, or other leather treating chemicals.

Saddle Butter® – Ray Holes Leather Care Products, Inc.
$20 for a 14oz jar = lifetime supply.


edit: What's a Bob? English police used to be 'bobbies'.

FBOATSB

I was deathly ill in the hospital for a couple of months last summer and upon returning home I discovered a jar I left open on the work bench of home brew goose fat and beeswax that was completely eaten and licked clean by the neighborhood voles.
Use whatever suites you but just don't leave it out


And Bob's yer uncle!

t2p

recently been using Pecard leather dressing

also Wilson Pro Stock glove conditioner

for decades used Lexol - but it does not appear to work as well as it did at one time ... ?

JohnDThompson 

I'd be careful with the glove conditioner. Those products are usually formulated to soften leather by breaking down the fibers in the leather. That's fine for a glove, but problematic for a leather saddle that needs to support your body weight.

Clyde1820

On car leather (seats) and other similar leathers that aren't at grave risk of softening and stretching, I've had good results with Fiebing's Saddle Soap and Fiebing's Neatsfoot Oil. Can't say how it'd work, long term, on a leather bike saddle.

Road Fan

As far as Bob, that was a mistake on my part, my chain slipped a tooth while trying to recall what forum I was preaching in - I must have over-lubed it that morning. Internet-BOB is a Google group evolved from the old Bridgestone Owners Bunch (hence B O B) evolved by Grant Peterson in his pre-Rivendell days, expressing fandom for his way of looking at things. Started out as ... whatever it should be called and now is very similar to the C&V sentiments here, but with no express preference for classic bikes. A very good group, it has a lot of overlap between 50+, C&V, and Classic Rendezvous groups. Yes, I know CR is not a BikeForums group.

t2p

the products we use are not too ‘aggressive’ and don’t break down the leather much (if at all ?)

glove needs to be able to receive a hard hit baseball often coming off a bat in excess of 100 mph (so it cannot be too broken down)

where some get into trouble is when they use some oil based products (and similar) to speed up the process ... with neatsfoot oil and similar products the results can be disastrous and ruin the glove ... floppy and heavy

we typically start with light application of Lexol - and then proceed cautiously and slowly from that point with some other products ... it can take some time before a glove is put into game use - typically will break in a glove over time while another glove is being used

greatbasin

Neetsfoot oil damages stitching. Brooks saddles have no stitching, so it is not a concern, but beware of stitched items like boots, gloves, bags, wallets etc.

Neetsfoot oil should only be used in miniscule quantities and it is best to dilute it with a carrier like beeswax or microcrystalline wax.

Accessible Preservatives makes a product that is neetsfoot oil, beeswax, and microcrystalline wax in suitable proportions.

Microcrystalline wax (Rennaissance Wax brand) is easier to apply than beeswax or carnauba wax and I can't think of a reason it isn't at least just as good as either.

I use Rennaissance wax alone for maintenance.

Snoseal is beeswax and pinetar. So is Hubbard's Shoe Grease.

Pinetar's main benefit is that it adds waterproofing. It's valuable for boots (assuming they don't have Goretex liners which it will thwart), but I don't see the point on saddles.

I would use Neetsfoot oil carefully if I wanted to soften the leather or if the leather was badly dried out. The chances are if I was considering using it, I would probably prefer the result of replacing the item if that were possible.

Feibing's saddle soap is a great product for cleaning leather. Clean it with that and use Rennaissance wax. If it needs anything else, replace it.

HelpSingularity 

From my experience I would be leery of using neetsfoot oil. It will soften your saddle so much that it loses its shape and splay out and no amount of tightening will bring the shape back. That was my experience anyway. YMMV

awac

I am trying out using ballistol on an old brooks saddle. I have used ballistol for various things over the years, great stuff, eco and cruelty free as well.

https://ballistol.com/uses/leather-care/

Road Fan

The bicycle saddle is carrying much of your body weight in a vertical direction, suspended from its ends with only a small amount of drop. The force diagram should have a lot of force in tension on the saddle, only a small component in the vertical direction, especially at the nose, where the cross-section is at its minimum. This is totally unlike a baseball glove or a police belt. I think it's more like the belly-strap that holds a saddle in place on a horse. So I think care of tack leeather other than the saddle itself might be more a better analogy to a skin bicycle saddle. But I suspect taht to carry a cyclist weighing 200#, the tension of the saddle top is over 1000#. In the case of a Brooks, Ideale or similar, that loading of the leather isn't matched by holsters, weapons belts, other kinds of sidearm holders, and baseball gloves.

My number is based on a simple calculation, where a strip (a very simplified saddle top) is suspended between a pair of end supports, which are assumed to be rigid. I also assume the strip is loaded at its midpoint by the weight of a 200# rider. No prejudice, that's just what I weigh. I assume the shape is a loaded strip angled down about 5 degrees at each. At this angle it looks slightly like a bike saddle, and with a steeper angle it does not.

But I'm pretty sure bike saddles need to carry internal skin tension which is far more than the weight of the rider. This kind of loading is not true for a gun holster, baseball glove (or lacross glove for that matter), shoe, jacket, easy chair, or other common item of leather goods.

Why is this in my head now? We have been speaking of several different types of leather treatments, and several of us think that Neetsfoot oil might weaken leather under tension. If this is so, and we are also sharing anecdotes which follow this concern, then while Neetsfoot might be good for leather in normal, low-stress usage, it might not be a good treatment for bicycle saddle leather,which we want to continue to support hundreds of pounds as it did 30 years ago. Essentially, Neetsfoot oil is contraindicated as a treatment for bicycle saddles, if my model is correct and its implications match reality..

If anyone wants to talk about my calculation, send me your email and we can chat.