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Unusual pulse behavior

Old 05-24-23, 12:57 PM
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yannisg
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Unusual pulse behavior

Recently I have experienced the following unusual pulse behavior.
The ride has a flat section in the beginning and then turns hilly.
For example, total ride about 60 klm with 500-700 m climbing depending on the route.
On the flat section with a RPE of 3 I keep the pulse rate between 115-120 bpm depending on the slight inclinations.
On the hilly section I expect the pulse rate to follow in profile of the route. That is, on the steep sections to vary between 135-145 bpm, depending on how hard I am pedaling, and on the descent to go down to about 90 bpm which has been happening in the past.
However, recently the following happens, but not always.
On the flat section while it is about 115-120 all of a sudden it will increase to 128 bpm and stay there. On the uphill sections it might climb to 135-140 bpm while I would expect it to be higher, and on the descents it remains at 128 bpm where I would expect it to drop to 90-100 bpm within a few minutes.
This perculiar pulse behaviour does not happen all the time, but seems to be happening more often.
Anyone experience such a condition.
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Old 05-24-23, 01:23 PM
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Last time I had something similar, I replaced my HR strap that was probably about 5 years old and the issue went away. I expect it'll come back when this strap gets old.
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Old 05-24-23, 01:34 PM
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Yeah, check that your HRM is working properly. Make sure the strap is sufficiently tight. Also, at high temperatures and low humidity, one can get odd effects if the strap is not making good contact with your skin (not damp) or is experiencing effects associated with static electricity from your jersey. the latter two are more likely early in a ride.
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Old 05-24-23, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan
Yeah, check that your HRM is working properly. Make sure the strap is sufficiently tight. Also, at high temperatures and low humidity, one can get odd effects if the strap is not making good contact with your skin (not damp) or is experiencing effects associated with static electricity from your jersey. the latter two are more likely early in a ride.
The HRM is relatively new. Agree that sometimes early in the ride you can experience abnormalities with the HRM that usually straighten out as the ride progresses, but is not the case in this situation.
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Old 05-24-23, 03:37 PM
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I've found the HRM gels to be useful. If you think it's something other than your HRM, you need to talk to a doc.
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Old 05-25-23, 07:19 AM
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I think we all pretty much assume your HR device is at fault. However you should make sure that it's not actually you.

I don't know, but I think there are some heart conditions that might give you such. As well sometimes whether or not you are dehydrated from not drinking enough fluids or are just overworked and tired can affect your HR during times you are riding your bike.

So consulting a medical professional might be a wise move.
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Old 05-25-23, 08:56 AM
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Typical funky HRM behavior. Look at the rate trace for non-physiological-looking changes (e.g., step rises and drops).

Normal exercising heart rates in asymptomatic, healthy, individuals, do not generally require medical attention.
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Old 05-25-23, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
I think we all pretty much assume your HR device is at fault. However you should make sure that it's not actually you.

I don't know, but I think there are some heart conditions that might give you such. As well sometimes whether or not you are dehydrated from not drinking enough fluids or are just overworked and tired can affect your HR during times you are riding your bike.

So consulting a medical professional might be a wise move.
MIght be, but I doubt it. Unless you've got a working relationship with a cardiologist who's an athlete and tuned into the kind of riding you do. Otherwise, my experience was you get lots of "Wow, your resting pulse rate is really low!" or "You ride your bike on the road? Aren't you afraid you'll get killed?" kinds of comments. You can spend a lot of money on specialists and EKGs and get nothing more than "I wouldn't worry about pulse changes of less than 10 bpm."

Credential disclaimer: I'm not an M.D. or D.O.
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Old 05-25-23, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb
MIght be, but I doubt it. Unless you've got a working relationship with a cardiologist who's an athlete and tuned into the kind of riding you do. Otherwise, my experience was you get lots of "Wow, your resting pulse rate is really low!" or "You ride your bike on the road? Aren't you afraid you'll get killed?" kinds of comments. You can spend a lot of money on specialists and EKGs and get nothing more than "I wouldn't worry about pulse changes of less than 10 bpm."

Credential disclaimer: I'm not an M.D. or D.O.
I agree. And I had the same experience when asking doctors questions related to cycling. However the doctor can tell if there are any diagnosable heart issues beginning. And I think that any of us here in the 50+ forum should already be getting to know a cardiologist or other heart doctor so base lines and other things can be established before an actual heart issue puts one calling for the ambulance.
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Old 05-25-23, 10:09 AM
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I was referred to a Cardiologist after I reported to my PC that I felt faint/woozy during a really tough climb. When I related this to the Cardio, he said "Why didn't you get off and walk?" Nevertheless, he sent me for all the tests and I felt at ease knowing nothing was amiss.
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Old 05-25-23, 10:16 AM
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My cardiologist who runs moderately keeps advising to reduce intensity which I have. On the other hand, a lot of literature proposes to keep the intensity up as we age. Of course, on a personal level, how intense, how often, and age should all be part of it. On my next ride I am going to use a different heart rate monitor to see if the above mentioned condition is repeated.
I have also arrange for a stress test with my cardiologist.
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Old 05-25-23, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb
MIght be, but I doubt it. Unless you've got a working relationship with a cardiologist who's an athlete and tuned into the kind of riding you do. Otherwise, my experience was you get lots of "Wow, your resting pulse rate is really low!" or "You ride your bike on the road? Aren't you afraid you'll get killed?" kinds of comments. You can spend a lot of money on specialists and EKGs and get nothing more than "I wouldn't worry about pulse changes of less than 10 bpm."

Credential disclaimer: I'm not an M.D. or D.O.
MD (not a cardiologist) here. I agree with the above and offer this additional caution regarding self-referrals in general: Cardiologists, like other specialists, do primarily a referral business, meaning that the population of patients which forms their experience and shapes their instincts (which some of us would call biases) is sicker and more likely to have actionable pathology than the general population, especially athletes. Therefore any minor or ambiguous abnormalities you do happen to have will likely be interpreted by a specialist in the light of these "priors." Bayesian statistics and common sense tell us that this is likely to lead to misinterpretations and mistakes in the direction of over-aggressiveness when these folks deal with healthy people. Let's also consider that the literature on the outcomes of things like catheterizations, stents, medications etc., all of which have significant downsides, is primarily based on studies in sick populations where they are more likely to be of net benefit than in asymptomatic people with incidental findings.

Originally Posted by Iride01
I agree. And I had the same experience when asking doctors questions related to cycling. However the doctor can tell if there are any diagnosable heart issues beginning. And I think that any of us here in the 50+ forum should already be getting to know a cardiologist or other heart doctor so base lines and other things can be established before an actual heart issue puts one calling for the ambulance.
It is nice to have a baseline electrocardiogram, especially if it's at all funny looking. Personally, I hope to leave this earth having gotten to know as few medical specialists as possible, at least as a patient.

Originally Posted by shelbyfv
I was referred to a Cardiologist after I reported to my PC that I felt faint/woozy during a really tough climb. When I related this to the Cardio, he said "Why didn't you get off and walk?" Nevertheless, he sent me for all the tests and I felt at ease knowing nothing was amiss.
Wooziness DURING exertion is a very good reason to see a cardiologist.

Last edited by MoAlpha; 05-25-23 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 05-25-23, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha
Wooziness DURING exertion is a very good reason to see a cardiologist.
My primary care provider thought so. Sounded good to me as well. I was surprised when the cardio doc was less than interested.
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Old 05-26-23, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha
Wooziness DURING exertion is a very good reason to see a cardiologist.
Agreed. A club member, who is relatively young (50s) and did a lot of riding, including competing in the Mt Mitchell challenge, was on a training ride with a group. After a hard climb, he felt "woozy" and on the descent (at about 40 MPH) began to lose control of his bike. Luckily, he managed to get it stopped and dismounted, where he proceeded to have a heart attack.
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Old 05-26-23, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv
I was referred to a Cardiologist after I reported to my PC that I felt faint/woozy during a really tough climb. When I related this to the Cardio, he said "Why didn't you get off and walk?" Nevertheless, he sent me for all the tests and I felt at ease knowing nothing was amiss.
So, you rode your bike up a climb that was so hard that you felt like you were going to pass out at the top? You don't need a cardiologist, you need a psychiatrist!

Heck, I think we all do.

That is nuts. Also, I can't think of anything more fun and plan to do similar tomorrow.
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Old 05-26-23, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by yannisg
My cardiologist who runs moderately keeps advising to reduce intensity which I have. On the other hand, a lot of literature proposes to keep the intensity up as we age. Of course, on a personal level, how intense, how often, and age should all be part of it. On my next ride I am going to use a different heart rate monitor to see if the above mentioned condition is repeated.

I have also arrange for a stress test with my cardiologist.

What studies? They are typically short duration with outcomes related to VO2 max or wattage at some effort level. In my opinion, older riders say in 60+ range should be very, very careful doing HIIT workouts in terms of frequency and intensity. I can point to many older athletes where large volume and less frequent HIIT has maintained their power and time on the planet. So, if you are trying to break a world record, find a coach.


On a 60 km ride with 700m of climbing, I assume you are riding 2-3 hours in duration. For many people that is a hard workout.


When HR stays elevated on the descent after a climb, it could mean many things. Like.....my body is really hot and it needs to cool or I've exceeded my endurance capability (decoupling), or in common terms.......you were hot and fatigued. I see this on every single long ride. Of course, "long" is relative.


No idea how old you are or your fitness. I would follow your Cardiologists advice and dial it back a bit on intensity, have fun riding, and do a hard workout once in a while. You won't do a world record or anything but if you take 1-2 years with slow increases in load, you will become very fit. But no harm getting checked out. That is how this 60+ does it and it gets me fit enough.
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Old 05-26-23, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
What studies? They are typically short duration with outcomes related to VO2 max or wattage at some effort level. In my opinion, older riders say in 60+ range should be very, very careful doing HIIT workouts in terms of frequency and intensity. I can point to many older athletes where large volume and less frequent HIIT has maintained their power and time on the planet. So, if you are trying to break a world record, find a coach.
This could be right and I would never advise an "alter kacker" to do anything too strenuous, but VO2max does have a strong and reproducible negative relationship with mortality. Maybe if we had good estimates of VO2 for lower intensities in the population, we might see an even stronger relationship. On the other hand, I'm still doing work in that zone, much of it in trying to hang with old people riding at FTP or lower and some on the trainer.
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Old 05-26-23, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
What studies? They are typically short duration with outcomes related to VO2 max or wattage at some effort level. In my opinion, older riders say in 60+ range should be very, very careful doing HIIT workouts in terms of frequency and intensity. I can point to many older athletes where large volume and less frequent HIIT has maintained their power and time on the planet. So, if you are trying to break a world record, find a coach.


On a 60 km ride with 700m of climbing, I assume you are riding 2-3 hours in duration. For many people that is a hard workout.


When HR stays elevated on the descent after a climb, it could mean many things. Like.....my body is really hot and it needs to cool or I've exceeded my endurance capability (decoupling), or in common terms.......you were hot and fatigued. I see this on every single long ride. Of course, "long" is relative.


No idea how old you are or your fitness. I would follow your Cardiologists advice and dial it back a bit on intensity, have fun riding, and do a hard workout once in a while. You won't do a world record or anything but if you take 1-2 years with slow increases in load, you will become very fit. But no harm getting checked out. That is how this 60+ does it and it gets me fit enough.
I took a stress test today which showed some extra systoles that most likely affected the the odd behaviour of the HRM. I was told that the extra beats are nothing to worry about.
As the intensity of the stress test was increased the test was stopped at 220 mmHg systolic pressure and 143 bpm. I could have gone harder, but the cardiologist recommended 200mmHg as a limit which would correspond to about 130-135 bpm.
I am 76 and have already reduced the intensity. I also have an enlarged aoerta which seems to have stabilized with the reduction of intensity.
I have recently chosen slower or similar riding partners to avoid the pressure of keeping up with stronger riders. However, I do a lot of solo riding so I can control the ride.
Usual ride is about 60-70 klm with 600-700 m ascent 3 times a week.
Thanks everyone for responding.
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Old 05-29-23, 07:01 AM
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As an RN who worked in cardiology, I learned to mistrust external pulse monitors. There are many reasons why they can double-count or half-count pulse rates. If you get an anomalously high or low pulse reading, palpate your pulse directly (radial artery or a carotid artery are easy to find) to verify the reading. "Treat the patient, not the monitor" was our motto.
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Old 05-29-23, 08:54 AM
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HRM straps like the Polar H10 do not measure pulse (like ppg wrist straps) and are accurate to within 1% of a lab ekg.
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Old 05-29-23, 06:37 PM
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I'm not a doctor, so I have no advice other than this. See your PCP and get a referral to a cardiologist.
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Old 06-03-23, 12:13 PM
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A blood test might be of benefit. Too much cholestoral? Try for a simple stress test on a cross trainer. You can achieve max easily on that, quickly, and see how long HR takes to reduce. 30 pointswithin a minute should be achievable with active cyclists/gym bunnies
I had a little too much cholesterol recently, (it was Mother's Day and I scoffed all the chocolates) and the result was surprising. I guessed all was not well.
Had a statin for a month and the result was vastly improved. Hope to be off the statin soon.
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Old 06-03-23, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by peterws
A blood test might be of benefit. Too much cholestoral? Try for a simple stress test on a cross trainer. You can achieve max easily on that, quickly, and see how long HR takes to reduce. 30 pointswithin a minute should be achievable with active cyclists/gym bunnies
I had a little too much cholesterol recently, (it was Mother's Day and I scoffed all the chocolates) and the result was surprising. I guessed all was not well.
Had a statin for a month and the result was vastly improved. Hope to be off the statin soon.
My advice is to stay on the statin. Statins do two things: lower cholesterol and harden existing plaques to make them less likely to break up and cause a blockage. The second benefit may be more important than the first. Only reason to not take a statin if our LDL is high is if the statin causes sufficient muscle discomfort so as to make a big difference in one's ability to exercise. I have a very strong riding buddy who's been on a statin for decades. Some statins are much less likely to to cause muscles issues than others.
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Old 06-04-23, 12:53 AM
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I had an issue not long after my second jab, an irregular and elevated heartbeat. I saw a cardiologist right away, and had a portable EKG taped to my chest for a few days. It was put on statins for 3 weeks, after which my heart settled down. It’s now been 18 months with no issues, and I have been riding pretty hard this season.
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Old 06-04-23, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by yannisg
My cardiologist who runs moderately keeps advising to reduce intensity which I have. On the other hand, a lot of literature proposes to keep the intensity up as we age. Of course, on a personal level, how intense, how often, and age should all be part of it. On my next ride I am going to use a different heart rate monitor to see if the above mentioned condition is repeated.
I have also arrange for a stress test with my cardiologist.
Listen to your Doctor.

Not those who overstimulated their sympathetic nervous system with chronic HIIT, developed a-Fib, and then needed stents to deal with the effects of inflammatory conditions.

Don't take medical advice from the internets.

I do love statins, the profits allowed me to fly first class, drink $500 bottles of wine, and stay in deluxe Paris hotels on the drug company's dime.
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