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Snacks during a ride?

Old 07-28-23, 08:32 AM
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I like your doc's take on blood pressure. It can vary so much, and today's guidelines seem more restrictive than sensible.

You might want to try that horrid stuporfood, the Twinkie. If you EVER feel like you're going to "bonk," it seems the most rapidly assimilated fuel I have ever found. I know it defies all manner of health-conscious logic, but if you generally eat right, well, a wood stove will burn anything flammable and produce heat. Both processes are a form of oxidation...

It sucks about the high BP, because of the complex relationship between salt and pressure. I don't understand the particulars, but if you get low BP out in the heat, you likely have sufficient vasodilation that a carefully managed salt supplementation might actually be something you could use to your benefit. Your doc might have enough common sense to advise you without resorting to meme-level polemics.

Keep us posted, man! I'm restarting my training for the third time, with 35 "pack-years," a century ride in 1973, a few in 2003, and one coming this October. It is a lot slower going this time around. I really want to do it, because my nine year-old son just got a Specialized Allez, and he loves riding with me.
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Old 07-28-23, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by teacherman62

You might want to try that horrid stuporfood, the Twinkie. If you EVER feel like you're going to "bonk," it seems the most rapidly assimilated fuel I have ever found. I know it defies all manner of health-conscious logic, but if you generally eat right, well, a wood stove will burn anything flammable and produce heat. Both processes are a form of oxidation...
I did many long rides with just a Twinkie ... Clif Bar and a Twinkie ...

small bag of potato chips sometimes
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Old 07-28-23, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by t2p
I did many long rides with just a Twinkie ... Clif Bar and a Twinkie ...

small bag of potato chips sometimes
Iím not sure I can convince my wife that Twinkies are health food.
I need to lose more weight before I even try.
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Old 07-28-23, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly
My problem is that I am overweight already and am losing weight. I am not riding that far yet. The more I lose the further I should be able to ride, although our current weather in Texas is making it difficult.
Right. It's simply a matter of adaptation. In your case you are trying to adapt to two things at once: cycling and keto. First of all, search this forum for keto threads. There have been several quite long ones. That'll give you a feel for what other keto riders have accomplished. Then there's the matter of adapting to the bike. If you're really doing keto, you don't need to eat anything on a ride of under maybe 60 miles, maybe more. But there is the problem of adapting to both keto and cycling in order to be able to do it.

My usual advice to folks is to ride away from home until you're tired, then ride back. The issue is that one has to stress their system to promote adaptation. Sorry, but that's how it is. You have a slightly more complicated problem because you aren't yet keto adapted. "Keto adapted" means that you brain no longer runs on glucose, it runs on ketones. The one way to achieve that is to reduce carbs to a certain level. Absolute max is 50g/day, but you'll get quicker results with 20g-30g per day. The dizziness is because your brain is currently running on carbs and when it gets low, it doesn't like that. Once you are keto adapted, that won't happen anymore, but the problem is getting from here to there.

My suggestion is to not ride while you are getting adapted. You'll need to really study your diet to see what you can eat and stay below 30g/day. There are lots of cookbooks and reference materials out there. Look. Get adapted first and then try riding.

OTOH . . . a keto diet is not the holy grail. What you are after is fewer calories of anything Counting calories is usually a better way to accomplish that.
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Old 07-28-23, 12:20 PM
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I'm up to about 30-35 miles now without problems or being gassed at all. However, in the beginning I was bonking because i didn't know I was burning so many calories and I was only drinking water. You have to eat to put back what you've burned or you'll bonk. That goes for proper hydration and salt intake too. Only problem I have with biking is I am starving after the ride, all day, even if I eat what I'm supposed to eat and drink during the ride. I have maintained my weight only. I have lost fat though, and muscle weighs more, so maybe that's it. My legs are rock solid. I think your diet and bike riding may not be the best mix.
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Old 07-28-23, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
Right. It's simply a matter of adaptation. In your case you are trying to adapt to two things at once: cycling and keto. First of all, search this forum for keto threads. There have been several quite long ones. That'll give you a feel for what other keto riders have accomplished. Then there's the matter of adapting to the bike. If you're really doing keto, you don't need to eat anything on a ride of under maybe 60 miles, maybe more. But there is the problem of adapting to both keto and cycling in order to be able to do it.

My usual advice to folks is to ride away from home until you're tired, then ride back. The issue is that one has to stress their system to promote adaptation. Sorry, but that's how it is. You have a slightly more complicated problem because you aren't yet keto adapted. "Keto adapted" means that you brain no longer runs on glucose, it runs on ketones. The one way to achieve that is to reduce carbs to a certain level. Absolute max is 50g/day, but you'll get quicker results with 20g-30g per day. The dizziness is because your brain is currently running on carbs and when it gets low, it doesn't like that. Once you are keto adapted, that won't happen anymore, but the problem is getting from here to there.

My suggestion is to not ride while you are getting adapted. You'll need to really study your diet to see what you can eat and stay below 30g/day. There are lots of cookbooks and reference materials out there. Look. Get adapted first and then try riding.

OTOH . . . a keto diet is not the holy grail. What you are after is fewer calories of anything Counting calories is usually a better way to accomplish that.
I may not be doing keto properly. I am staying under 20 carbs per day. Since the start of February I have lost 60 pounds. I am now at 244 but my goal is to be under 200, preferably about 175. I havenít beennthat light since high school football.
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Old 07-28-23, 12:23 PM
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I don't see how you can bike at all with that small amount of carbs per day! I'd pass out after two miles in this heat.
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Old 07-28-23, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Breadfan
I don't see how you can bike at all with that small amount of carbs per day! I'd pass out after two miles in this heat.
I am not riding far for now. I also have plenty of alternative fuel.
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Old 07-28-23, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly
I may not be doing keto properly. I am staying under 20 carbs per day. Since the start of February I have lost 60 pounds. I am now at 244 but my goal is to be under 200, preferably about 175. I havenít been that light since high school football.
Sounds like you're doing great. If you get light headed, stop and rest, go on. Try that. BTW, I've had a problem with getting light-headed. In my case, it was a cardiac issue, not a fueling issue. My ventricles weren't firing properly. It can be serious.
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Old 07-28-23, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
Sounds like you're doing great. If you get light headed, stop and rest, go on. Try that. BTW, I've had a problem with getting light-headed. In my case, it was a cardiac issue, not a fueling issue. My ventricles weren't firing properly. It can be serious.
The lightheadedness happens at the gym-so far. It isnít bad. I usually only do 30 minutes on the upright indoor bike. There are no fans over that area so I get warm even in ac. When I get home my bp might be 95/60. I take bp meds and this has to be simply vasodilation.
I just really donít want to drop riding on the road but I know what to watch for.
The biggest problem right now is the temp. Itís 100* and higher for the high. The low is 80* to 82*. It will be 90* or more by 9:30am and still be 100* around 9:00pm.
So far this summer bites. We will have 18 days in July over 100* and this will continue into August.
I will just plan around it.
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Old 07-28-23, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly
The lightheadedness happens at the gym-so far. It isnít bad. I usually only do 30 minutes on the upright indoor bike. There are no fans over that area so I get warm even in ac. When I get home my bp might be 95/60. I take bp meds and this has to be simply vasodilation.
I just really donít want to drop riding on the road but I know what to watch for.
The biggest problem right now is the temp. Itís 100* and higher for the high. The low is 80* to 82*. It will be 90* or more by 9:30am and still be 100* around 9:00pm.
So far this summer bites. We will have 18 days in July over 100* and this will continue into August.
I will just plan around it.
Oh Lordy, that's great. Yeah, I started out working out on a gym bike. I'd have a puddle around me on the floor. I once had a kid come over and say, "Are you all right, mister?" No, definitely not all right in the head. Heat is actually good for you, you just need to stay plenty hydrated. Yes, vasodilation. Can you use a trainer at home with two 24" box fans? My observation is that aerobically, nothing much happens for the first 45'. During that time, you body is just figuring out what's going on.
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Old 07-28-23, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
Oh Lordy, that's great. Yeah, I started out working out on a gym bike. I'd have a puddle around me on the floor. I once had a kid come over and say, "Are you all right, mister?" No, definitely not all right in the head. Heat is actually good for you, you just need to stay plenty hydrated. Yes, vasodilation. Can you use a trainer at home with two 24" box fans? My observation is that aerobically, nothing much happens for the first 45'. During that time, you body is just figuring out what's going on.
I hydrate. It isnít hot at the gym but the big ceiling fans are not over where I workout.
I do yhat mainly just to get some cardio in.
A few years ago I was laying an asphalt patch in a street. It was about 95* just before lunch. I felt lightheaded and just ďoffĒ. I took my bp at home at lunch and it was around 90/60. My wife got worried and took me to the ER. The doc said I was a little dehydrated and that low bp wasnít dangerous like high bp-as long as it isnít zero.
I recover fairly quickly.
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Old 07-28-23, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by teacherman62
Great to see this. Back in the day I found I could go indefinitely at about 70-75% throttle (heart rate) without food when in ketosis. A good way to prevent overtraining as well.

That said, on a long ride, a Twinkie is almost immediately assimilated without residual belly bulk, and affords about 15 minutes of sprinting before it evaporates. For what it's worth.... I wonder if a body at full exertion just runs all the junk through the metabolic furnace without harm, rather akin to the high temp trash incinerators that break down toxic materials to their constituent elements. I'm no expert, but to me a Twinkie is experientially akin to the NOS used by street racers in their cars.
the crŤme filling maybe, but the bread will make you lethargic.
A fruit rollup on the other hand
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Old 07-29-23, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly
I may not be doing keto properly. I am staying under 20 carbs per day. Since the start of February I have lost 60 pounds. I am now at 244 but my goal is to be under 200, preferably about 175. I havenít beennthat light since high school football.
Good for you. I did something similar and had no problem riding 200km w/o eating anything on rides. Once the fat is gone and your metabolism is fixed, you might find the need and benefit to using the right amount of carbs during a ride or at least that is what I found. Fat oxidation is not as efficient (uses more O2) as gylcogen
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Old 07-29-23, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly
I may not be doing keto properly. I am staying under 20 carbs per day. Since the start of February I have lost 60 pounds. I am now at 244 but my goal is to be under 200, preferably about 175. I havenít beennthat light since high school football.
There is no right way of doing keto...Keto diet is a wrong approach to weight loss because keto diets are not sustainable long term and the weight loss which you achieve through keto diet is only temporary. You can't do keto forever and eventually you will have to go back to eating normal diet which includes carbs and you will gain all the weight back because your body won't be able to process carbs as fuel for energy. Keto is a recipe for a messed up metabolism.
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Old 07-29-23, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
There is no right way of doing keto...Keto diet is a wrong approach to weight loss because keto diets are not sustainable long term and the weight loss which you achieve through keto diet is only temporary. You can't do keto forever and eventually you will have to go back to eating normal diet which includes carbs and you will gain all the weight back because your body won't be able to process carbs as fuel for energy. Excessive Carbs are a recipe for a messed up metabolism.
You are wrong
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Old 07-29-23, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
There is no right way of doing keto...Keto diet is a wrong approach to weight loss because keto diets are not sustainable long term and the weight loss which you achieve through keto diet is only temporary. You can't do keto forever and eventually you will have to go back to eating normal diet which includes carbs and you will gain all the weight back because your body won't be able to process carbs as fuel for energy. Keto is a recipe for a messed up metabolism.
I may or may not do keto after I reach my target weight. I may not be eating enough fat now to even be in ketosis.
I will keep my carb intake under 100 which is considered to be low carb. I will avoid processed sugar, bread, etc. I will include carb rich fruits and vegetables in my diet but I will be watching my weight and adjust accordingly.
I wasnít fat intil after I graduated and started drinking beer. I spent most of my adult life around 235-240. When I retired in 2020 I started gaining weight from beer and eating what I liked and not being active. I hit 305 at yhe end of January 2023. I weighed 243 this morning.
I am tired of being fat. Once I get this off it ainít coming back.
I have found keto bread that tastes good and low or zero carb tortillas yhat I like. There are healthy alternatives to the high carb unhealthy food I ate for decades.
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Old 07-29-23, 10:27 AM
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we’re ok with this as long as we can continue to call you pepperbelly
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Old 07-29-23, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by t2p
weíre ok with this as long as we can continue to call you pepperbelly
Yíall can. I hope it becomes more aerodynamic though.
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Old 07-29-23, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
You are wrong
Anything taken in excess is unhealthy.....The very nature of keto diet requires consuming extreme amount of fat ( up to 80% of calories from fat ) and the the remaining calories from protein while prohibiting all types of health promoting foods. This type of diet isn't sustainable for majority of people.
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Old 07-29-23, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
Anything taken in excess is unhealthy.....The very nature of keto diet requires consuming extreme amount of fat ( up to 80% of calories from fat ) and the the remaining calories from protein while prohibiting all types of health promoting foods. This type of diet isn't sustainable for majority of people.
A lot of the fat I eat comes from salmon snd tuna, eggs, and avocados.
There are healthy fats.
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Old 07-29-23, 07:25 PM
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My wife and I typically ride 1-2 hours in the morning (12-30 miles, depending on day and mood). I don't eat beforehand. I always have a couple of gels in my saddlebag if either of us start to feel the "bonk" coming on. Other than that we're generally not eating unless it's a long charity ride.
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Old 08-02-23, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
Anything taken in excess is unhealthy.....The very nature of keto diet requires consuming extreme amount of fat ( up to 80% of calories from fat ) and the the remaining calories from protein while prohibiting all types of health promoting foods. This type of diet isn't sustainable for majority of people.
I've been in ketosis for 4+ years now.

I don't ever, and never did consume 80% of my calories from fat. I eat a balanced diet of meats, eggs, veggies - just about all types, nuts, cheese, yogurts, seeds... ride 120-160 miles per week... and absolutely every measurable heath metric are the best in my lifetime - and far better than any doc's charts recommend. Zero medicine - even with advanced T2...

The majority of people cant sustain the diet, or any other diet for that matter - it's not that the diet isnt sustainable.
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Old 08-03-23, 07:36 AM
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Heavy snacking aging tourists, probably not good role models

Originally Posted by pepperbelly
Some riders in this forum ride 20-30 miles each day. Is food something you have to watch out for before and during the ride?
What do yíall eat?
I am a 64-year-old just coming to terms with age related limitations. My wife and I never travel light; we always bring snacks. When we are being sensible, we bring apples or celery with peanut butter to spread. Sometimes we will bring charcoal to a state park and grill hotdogs. Not good for you, I know, but a lot of fun, and something to look forward to that breaks up the ride. And the bike is lighter on the way home when the charcoal is gone. As you can probably tell, we are not tearing up the road, we lumber along on old touring bikes. Kind of a tortoise and hare situation, sometimes we catch up with faster riders that passed us later in the day. Not so much anymore, but thatís OK, we are happy to still be out pedaling in 2023. We feel less guilty about snacks eaten on a ride, but that may not be sensible, not sure we are actually burning up all the calories.
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Old 10-11-23, 02:48 PM
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What I have taken to doing recently is to ride as far as is comfortable with no food intake, usually about 25-30 miles. When I feel myself slowing down, in goes a Twinkie, and time to spin my way up a hill or two. I try to go as long as I can between them, and half a protein bar every thirty miles or so. I figure the keto base riding keeps me in or near zone 2, as I don't have the carbs going to allow me to max out. But strengthening this process, going longer and longer, I believe it trains my mitochondria to function more efficiently, getting more and more riding energy from fat, so when I do have carbs, it's that much more of a boost. I am no expert, definitely not a pro, just a guy who wants to do this stuff until I'm about 200 yeas old.
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