My wider tires.
 

At nearly 80, I hate getting flats on the road. I started using these tires with wires that the local bike shop sold and those tires never seem to go flat. I am far beyond trying to save grams of weight and just want to complete my rides. I used to use 18mm tires back in the day then went to 20's, then 23's, then 25's, now 28's. I wanted to use 32's but they will not fit my racing road bike. Those wider tires are much more stable and I wonder why I am still alive after chasing wheels with those narrow tires since 1983. I wonder what modern engineering tests say about wider tires and average speeds.

lots of stuff on YouTube about wider tires. Seems like 30/32 are a sweet point for comfort/speed.

I like 35's as they are easy to get on/off my rims and give a little 'cushier' ride at their 70 psi pressure rating. But I'm just a random guy posting on BF who likes cabled brakes & shifters, square-taper BBs, and rim brakes, so what could I possibly know about bicycles. :p

My normal routes for the last decade were relatively flat free routes. And I never thought there'd be any need for me to go tubeless. However there were some routes I shied away from because there were a lot of flat hazards along them. Road construction recently forced me to take those other routes and I did flat the first time I was on one. So now I'm tubeless.

If I can go tubeless, you can go tubeless. it won't matter if your bike can handle the comfy super wide tires or not. But you do need to consider a sealant more appropriate for the higher tire pressure of narrower tires.


So what are you really wanting? A solution for your current bike or are you wanting a new bike?

...so...
narrower tires, tubeless...
what's 'narrower' for you ??? at what pressure ???
Which sealant ???
how much do you weigh ?
Ride On
Yuri

This is all relative to the OP's statement that....

• OP hates getting flats on the road. (not sure where else one would get a flat that they like!)
• OP can't run wider tires on the current bike.

Though the OP might not even be asking about what to do for flats.

If the question is just about wider tires, that can't be used on the current bike, then to what purpose is that? For the average person that isn't competing with others or themselves, the width of the tire is only about comfort. They aren't necessarily significantly faster or slower than any other width tire.

And a easy rolling tire of a narrower width can be more comfortable than a hard rolling tire of a wide width. However in the same easy rolling tire, the wider the more comfortable. And not necessarily faster or slower.

Since the OP can't put wider tires on the current bike, then tubeless easy rolling tires in whatever width fits the bike will probably will take care of the risk of flats and make the ride much more comfortable.

I wasn't being philosophical.
I was really looking for specifics.
2 of my bikes can only accept 25 width, so if someone is using 'narrower' tires, specifically 25/26, then I'd like to hear their experiences
and knowing which sealants work better for the higher pressures needed for narrow width (75-85 psi)?

...and, of course, pressures are relative to the weight load of the rider and bike... so knowing the weight of a rider making comments has some qualifications of the comments...
of course 28 width is not 25, but one can, at least, makes some inferences ...
maybe I need to start a thread... ?
Ride On
Yuri

I only just went tubeless. So I can't really say. However I felt that Silca Ultimate would be a good choice for tires run at higher pressures. Don't know why I felt that way. I'm 175 lbs. Rode 25mm tires for the last 8 or more years. And just two weeks ago went tubeless with 29mm Aero 111 tires on DT-Swiss r470 db rims. OrangeSeal valvestems. At the moment I'm running 75 psi rear and 70 front. Previously on my 25mm GP 5000 tubed tires I ran 110 psi rear front and 100 front. But have been known to pump the rear up to 135 psi and didn't think it uncomfortable at all on the roads we have here. Though for timse when part of the Natchez Trace Parkway was chip seal, I'd run lower pressures for the day I planned to ride that stretch. But also that time when the NTP had chip seal, I also used 23 mm tires or less..

And again, narrower was just relative to what the OP couldn't run on his bike. So don't think I'm saying that you should run narrower tires than what you have been running.

Tests suggest that for any given tire pressure and road conditions, a wider tire can be just as fast as a narrow tire, and offer greater comfort.

Re: fitting wider tires on your old road bike. Have you considered converting your wheels to 650B (584mm bead seat diameter)? That can often provide clearance for a wider tire than would fit with a 27" or 700C rim. Be aware you may have to get longer reach calipers for the brake pads to reach the brake track on the rim.

Ok, so a problen developed. The tolerances on the bike are close and the rim had some runout. This meant that the tire had a high point. The high point was hitting hardware virtically because of the out-of-round nature of the tire and rim. So, it was not spinning freely as it should have been. The bike shop said I had to go back to 25mm tires. I took a nap and dreamed I was back work engineering solutions for mechanical problems. I woke up and turned the bike upside down and measured the runout. It was .025. I took the tires off and cut some strips of tape that had a width of .010. I put three strips of tape into the into the axle fitting of each wheel which moved the entire wheel down .030. Problem solved. In other words, I shimmed the wheel to eliminate the rubbing. Should the bike shop have known this? Probably. They had some kid as a mechanic and I told him how I fixed it.

You shimmed the dropout with tape? No bike shop would do anything like that or make any sort of modifications to wheel mounting because of liability.

If it works for you, fine. Things I have read recommend 4mm clearance all around the tire. I know people run tires closer than that but it's better to err on the side of caution.

You should always have a little clearance to the closest point a tire comes on your bike. If you run through some of the gumbo mud that sometimes washes over a road in places here after a hard rain where excavation was going on nearby, then I'd expect to come to a sudden halt. And I have in the past.

If the difference of where the tire rubs and the greatest clearance it has is a lot, then you might not have the tires seated properly. Or you have a bad tire that has damaged casing or something that shouldn't have passed the makers quality control checks.

If you need too, go to a smaller width tire. the difference of one tire size isn't going to be a big deal. Depending on what tires you are comparing. The range of riding comfort within the same size tire varies greatly. And surprisingly to many, it's the racing tires that are supple that have the best ride quality for comfort. And as long as you don't live where goat heads abound, their flat protection is more than sufficient if you want to stay with tubes.

Also, if you bought a tire that has a heavy tread pattern or a thicker tread for puncture protection, that probably has a wider overall circumference or diameter than a tire that is slick or has very little pattern. On paved roads you don't need any tread pattern.

My Canyon Aeroad came with 25 front and 28 rear. The wheels are tubeless ready but come with tubes. The 25/28 combo seems to work well for me. When it's time for tires they will be tubeless like my other bikes.

Yikes! Is the wheel out of round? If so 'shimming is not the fix...the wheel needs truing to possibly solve an 'out of round' condition...perhaps not, depends on the wheel condition...if it is the tire is it seated correctly?
Using shims in the dropouts is a safety issue. You have reduced the area for the axle to seat in the dropout and under a 'load' it could shift its position and possibly come out of the dropout.
You took a nap and dreamed of being back to 'engineering solutions for mechanical problems'...double yikes if your 'engineering solution' is shimming and reducing the contact area...

The tire and rim had a high point because of runout which I am familiar wiith due to my former employment. The fork end is designed so it has extra space where the axle seats. So I had room to to shim the wheel downward. It is a standard engineering solution for a quick fix. I could buy a new fork but that would be expensive. I have been riding and working on bikes since 1983. I have a 28 on the front and a 25 on the back but when the rear wheel wears I am going to shim that rim down as well to accomodate a 28. I sold my stand and my tools 20 years ago but my diagnostic skills are still sharp. The bike works great and my average speeds are unaffected. The road tortion appears to be better.

https://www.madearia.com/blog/circul...out-explained/

How much run out did it have? If it was more than a millimeter, maybe two at the most, I'd suspect there are other issues that need addressing. If it was just a millimeter or two, then many of us here will think that isn't enough clearance remaining between your tire and whatever it's rubbing. Don't let your engineering get in the way of common sense.

Ah, engineering tests. Are you sure you want to know?

Well, there are tests that measure rolling resistance at various tire widths. This graph shows how rolling resistance varies by tire width when tires are inflated to recommended pressures (wider tires = lower pressure). These tires are Continental Grand Prix 5000, the de facto standard low rolling resistance road tire:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...eb6ae77f17.png
Source: bicyclerollingresistance.com

The graph shows that rolling resistance changes very little with tire width, and wider tires have ever so slightly lower resistance, but since the difference is so small, that's one thing everyone can stop worrying about regarding wider tires.

The other factor is aerodynamic drag, where wider tires are at a disadvantage to narrow tires. You can make up for this disadvantage somewhat by using wheel rims optimized for a wider tire. Most of the modern carbon aero wheels are optimized for wider tires, starting at about 28mm.

They are generally getting faster, more grippy and more comfortable over a wider range of road surfaces from smooth pavement through to cobblestones. The worse condition your roads are in, the more you benefit from wider tires.

Fitting the widest tires your frame will safely accommodate is a pretty sound rule to follow.

I'm 2 months shy of 80 and I'm still running 23s. I could run 25s but that's the limit. So a similar bike age to yours. I always have several new tires in my bike box, so I'm not likely to change to 25s any time soon. I've been running Conti 5000 tubed tires ever since they came out. They are fast, corner very well, and I almost never get a flat with them. Best tires I ever used. Thing is, wider tires have more wind resistance when not being run on carbon wheels designed for that particular tire width. Wider tires combined with the correct rim are definitely faster. However that's not possible for you, short of a new bike, and how much do you really care about 10ths of watt in reduced resistance? It's way cheaper and easier to buy faster bike clothes, helmet, etc. Do buy a set of the Contis. You'll like them.

There are those of us who still ride on what now are called skinny tires - 23 & 25...
But the one consideration, of great importance, when discussing both the tire construct, width, inflation pressure and ride quality, which is almost never mentioned for real consideration - the the rider and bike weight.
A 165 lb rider + bike weight will 'ride' very differently from 'how' and 'what' a 200 lb rider + bile will feel.
So comments of regarding tire 'performance' and characteristics really don;t mean much, if one is aware of the rider qualities and riding style/purpose; AND what type of riding surface has generated those comments/considerations from any rider.
All these tires threads are always very 'lacking'...
Ride On
Yuri

I really like the 28's. They are very stable and my average speeds are the same.

using 'shims' will reduce the locking area for your wheels...not a good idea but hey i'm not an engineer so what do i know...do as you will and good luck to ya...

Having ridden at both those rider weights over the last few years and mostly somewhere in-between, I can say it makes very little difference to the way my tires feel. In terms of tire pressure it is a 5 psi difference on my current 32 mm tires.

So at 165 or 200 lb I would choose exactly the same tires. The difference in pressure, grip and ride quality between say 23 and 32 mm tires is far greater than the effects of 35 lb extra mass.

Having had some very large swings in 'mass' over the years. Since all those were when Sewups were still the 'Standard'; I couldn't say if 'ride quality' was even on the radar... LOL!
But, now, as my current stock of rubber starts dwindling, I am going to go up one 'size' to 25 front & 28' rear for a consistent long term, to determine if there is a discernible difference in any aspect of riding 'road'..
I noted for myself, that moving to a wider internal rim width, over 15 yrs ago, made a significant difference in ride feel and grip.
I recently put on an older Set of Mavic Ksyrium Equipes on a bike I'm selling, having 25s on them. The ride difference is HUGE ! Even at the lower pressures I already ride at my current weight...
IMO, Putting wider tires on narrow rims doesn't give much, if any improvement...
Ride On
Yuri

From 2019-2025 I’ve gradually gone from 25-28-30-32 mm GP5000 TR tires and all have been a notable improvement in ride quality and grip on mixed UK roads. As far as speed goes, there isn’t much in it on the smoother roads, but surfaces like chip-seal are almost certainly faster on wider tires. The lower pressures are more practical for tubeless running too. I’m down to around 60 psi on 32 mm.

Rim internal width is a very good point too. My previous bike had 17 mm internal rims and I did try them with 32 mm tires, but I think they felt better on 28s or 30s. My current wheels are 22 mm wide internally and they feel much better on 30+ mm tires. My 32 mm GP5000 measure 33 mm wide on these rims and feel more stable in cornering than narrower rims. Quite a big improvement for sure.

You can probably guess this is a one-way train for me. I’m quite keen to give 34 mm tires a go at some point and I think that is about the limit of my current frame.