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 Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

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 06-12-06, 12:04 PM #1 Little Darwin The Improbable Bulk Thread Starter     Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA Bikes: Many Posts: 8,401 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 2 Post(s) Fifty Plus Ride Rating As I think about my recent ride, I am pleased with how I did, but being a math major in my current academic adventures, I can't help but think that there should be a way to quantify a ride... I propose using three elements for a Fifty Plus ride rating system: M = Number of miles in the ride A = Age in years W = Rider's weight in pounds (after pie) The thought occurred to me that making a 50 year old 200 pound rider produce a rating equal to the number of miles would be interesting... Then the following formula makes it work and gives credit for added age or weight... Rating = M * (A * 0.02) * (W / 200) So, my ride Saturday would be: Rating = 61.57 * (49 * 0.02) * (310 / 200) = 61.57 * 0.98 * 1.55 = 93.52483 What this means is that my ride was the equivalent of a 50 year old weighing 200 pounds riding about 93.5 miles Of course, this methodology is only for fun, and has no scientific merit whatsoever (unless you can fool someone into it)... My goal is to increase the age and the miles while decreasing the weight... so if I am really successful at my weight loss and I ride a century next year, I could get the same rating for a longer ride... __________________ Slow Ride Cyclists of NEPA People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character. - Ralph Waldo Emerson Last edited by Little Darwin; 06-12-06 at 07:12 PM.
 06-12-06, 06:33 PM #2 jppe Let's do a Century     Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: North Carolina Bikes: Pinarello Prince/Campy SR; Cervelo R3/Sram Red; Trek 5900/Duraace, Cervelo P2C/Duraace, Cannondle Tandem/Ultegra Posts: 6,844 Mentioned: 6 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 129 Post(s) Okay, being an engineer and a semi math/physics major I'll bite. I have to ask though, in your formula you use (A*2) but in your example you used 0.02 instead of 2. I'm assuming you meant to use 2/100 in your formula?? Assuming 0.02 is correct and using the ride I did Sunday: M=101.5 miles A=53.75 years W=170 lbs (after eating 2 lbs of stuff after the ride) =101.5*(53.75*0.02)*(170/200)= 92.75 I would offer that there should be a speed adjustment as well and that either speed or duration of the ride could be used. Let's assume that 15 mph is "average" and use speed for my example. 92.75*(21/15)= 129.84 So now all we need is everyone else's data and we can do a nice graph of some sort so I can visually see the results. Of course mine number would need to be the biggest bar, piece of pie, etc for it to be statistically relevant ......
06-12-06, 06:37 PM   #3
will dehne
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 Originally Posted by dgregory57 Of course, this methodology is only for fun, and has no scientific merit whatsoever (unless you can fool someone into it)... My goal is to increase the age and the miles while decreasing the weight... so if I am really successful at my weight loss and I ride a century next year, I could get the same rating for a longer ride...
This reminds me of this proverb:
Numbers don't lie but liars sure use numbers.

 06-12-06, 06:59 PM #4 ken cummings Senior Member     Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: northern California Bikes: Bruce Gordon BLT, Cannondale parts bike, Ecodyne recumbent trike, Counterpoint Opus 2, miyata 1000 Posts: 5,603 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 1 Post(s) So for an outlier on the graph, if I did RAAM it would be 3000*60*0.02*210/200= about what 3700.?
06-12-06, 07:14 PM   #5
Little Darwin
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 Originally Posted by jppe Okay, being an engineer and a semi math/physics major I'll bite. I have to ask though, in your formula you use (A*2) but in your example you used 0.02 instead of 2. I'm assuming you meant to use 2/100 in your formula??
You assumed properly. I used the edit feature to correct the original formula to multiply by 0.02 instead of 2...
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 06-12-06, 07:21 PM #6 jppe Let's do a Century     Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: North Carolina Bikes: Pinarello Prince/Campy SR; Cervelo R3/Sram Red; Trek 5900/Duraace, Cervelo P2C/Duraace, Cannondle Tandem/Ultegra Posts: 6,844 Mentioned: 6 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 129 Post(s) Will-doing your ride from memory ( forgive me if I've probably missed the exact numbers): Will's AbB= 2900*(65*0.02)(190/200)= 3581.5 Probably going to be hard from someone to top that one!!!
06-12-06, 07:22 PM   #7
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 Originally Posted by jppe Okay, being an engineer and a semi math/physics major I'll bite. I have to ask though, in your formula you use (A*2) but in your example you used 0.02 instead of 2. I'm assuming you meant to use 2/100 in your formula?? Assuming 0.02 is correct and using the ride I did Sunday: M=101.5 miles A=53.75 years W=170 lbs (after eating 2 lbs of stuff after the ride) =101.5*(53.75*0.02)*(170/200)= 92.75 I would offer that there should be a speed adjustment as well and that either speed or duration of the ride could be used. Let's assume that 15 mph is "average" and use speed for my example. 92.75*(21/15)= 129.84 So now all we need is everyone else's data and we can do a nice graph of some sort so I can visually see the results. Of course mine number would need to be the biggest bar, piece of pie, etc for it to be statistically relevant ......

OK... i'm in managemnt... looking for a few more management types here on the forum to have a meeting over this. then we'll see if any of this data meets our goals, strategic vision, etc. if so, we'll get it budgeted for next year.

promise.

06-12-06, 07:25 PM   #8
DnvrFox
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 Originally Posted by s_boy OK... i'm in managemnt... looking for a few more management types here on the forum to have a meeting over this. then we'll see if any of this data meets our goals, strategic vision, etc. if so, we'll get it budgeted for next year. promise.
You will need to revise your mission statement, and have a least 10 focus groups.

 06-12-06, 07:31 PM #9 Blackberry In Memory of One Cool Cat     Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Charlottesville, VA Bikes: Lemond Victoire, Cannondale.Mountain Bike, two 1980s lugged steel Treks, ancient 1980-something Giant mountain bike converted into a slick tired commuter with mustache handlebars, 1960-something Raleigh Sports Posts: 2,722 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) If your focus group needs a resident idiot count me in. I can't understand any of this. My most recent ride rating looks like this: 30 miles Stopped for an apple turnover and coffee Had a good time Rating: A+ __________________ Dead last finish is better than did not finish and infinitely better than did not start.
06-12-06, 07:47 PM   #10
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 Originally Posted by DnvrFox You will need to revise your mission statement, and have a least 10 focus groups.
hey... now your talking !!!!

no telling what these engineers, bean counters, and math wizzes would do without sound management types (like us) to keep them straight.

al

06-12-06, 07:53 PM   #11
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 Originally Posted by s_boy hey... now your talking !!!! no telling what these engineers, bean counters, and math wizzes would do without sound management types (like us) to keep them straight. al
When I was teaching, we teachers - as a group activity - revised our mission statement every year for four years, and never did any of the the things in the mission statement! I could have been grading papers.

By the way, I think our age should be in metric years in that formula.

 06-12-06, 08:10 PM #12 mollusk Elite Fred     Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Edge City Bikes: 2009 Spooky (cracked frame), 2006 Curtlo, 2002 Lemond (current race bike) Zurich, 1987 Serotta Colorado, 1986 Cannondale for commuting, a 1984 Cannondale on loan to my son Posts: 10,829 Mentioned: 4 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 24 Post(s) You are missing time for the ride in your formula. I have ridden over 100K miles in my life. If I claim to start my ride at age 4 and take it to now I get a pretty huge number!
06-12-06, 08:36 PM   #13
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 Originally Posted by Blackberry 30 miles Stopped for an apple turnover and coffee Had a good time Rating: A+
+1 Most excellent ride.

06-12-06, 08:58 PM   #14
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 Originally Posted by DnvrFox You will need to revise your mission statement, and have a least 10 focus groups.

Which is where I come in... Shall we schedule the offsite?
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06-13-06, 06:37 AM   #15
jppe
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 Originally Posted by Blackberry If your focus group needs a resident idiot count me in. I can't understand any of this. My most recent ride rating looks like this: 30 miles Stopped for an apple turnover and coffee Had a good time Rating: A+
I detect a Political Science/Psychology/Liberal Arts major here...........

06-13-06, 07:24 AM   #16
Blackberry
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 Originally Posted by jppe I detect a Political Science/Psychology/Liberal Arts major here...........
Busted.
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 06-13-06, 12:38 PM #17 CyberDaug Member   Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lansing Michigan Bikes: Trek Navigator 200 Posts: 36 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) I'm still trying to figure out where the 21 came from in S_Boys formula came from ( I would offer that there should be a speed adjustment as well and that either speed or duration of the ride could be used. Let's assume that 15 mph is "average" and use speed for my example. 92.75*(21/15)= 129.84) I think I'll go with Blackberry's Rating.
06-13-06, 01:03 PM   #18
Little Darwin
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 Originally Posted by CyberDaug I think I'll go with Blackberry's Rating.
Sure!!!

But then you only have fun and not an arbitrary number that looks like it means something important...
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06-13-06, 01:47 PM   #19
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 Originally Posted by dgregory57 Sure!!! But then you only have fun and not an arbitrary number that looks like it means something important...
Point taken, but I would still like to know where the 21 came from

06-13-06, 02:19 PM   #20
Little Darwin
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 Originally Posted by CyberDaug Point taken, but I would still like to know where the 21 came from
Actually I think S Boy was quoting jppe, and jppe is claiming that his average speed for a century was 21 mph...

Since I have never ridden with jppe, I can only say... He can apparently drop me in a second! I have to have a real nice tail wind and possibly a mild descent before I can even sprint at a speed of 21... Unless of course that is in kilometers per hour, in which case I can probably hang onto his wheel until we start a gentle climb, then I will be dropped.
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06-13-06, 03:49 PM   #21
jppe
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 Originally Posted by dgregory57 Actually I think S Boy was quoting jppe, and jppe is claiming that his average speed for a century was 21 mph... Since I have never ridden with jppe, I can only say... He can apparently drop me in a second! I have to have a real nice tail wind and possibly a mild descent before I can even sprint at a speed of 21... Unless of course that is in kilometers per hour, in which case I can probably hang onto his wheel until we start a gentle climb, then I will be dropped.

Actually it's much easier to average 21 mph than you think. It's just a matter of what numeric value you program into your cyclometer!!!

 06-13-06, 03:56 PM #22 late Senior Member     Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Southern Maine Bikes: Posts: 8,493 Mentioned: 38 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 4797 Post(s) You need to factor in elevation gain. If i was to gain 1500ft during a 40 mile ride on Sunday, which I did... I'd want that reflected in the formula. One climb was 4 miles long, my first long climb of the year. You know they say you should relax while climbing? After a couple miles this was not a problem. I Except for my legs, I was a wet dish rag.
 06-13-06, 04:27 PM #23 Little Darwin The Improbable Bulk Thread Starter     Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA Bikes: Many Posts: 8,401 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 2 Post(s) OK... Revised formula (I am a software developer by trade, so this isn't too bad yet) M = Distance in miles A = Age in years W = Weight in pounds (after pie) S = Average speed in miles per hour E = Total elevation gain in feet Rating = M * (A/50) * (W/200) * (S/15) * (E/1000) If any value is unknown, drop that element. For example, if elevation gain is unknown, then drop the E/1000... In essence, the default is for each factor to balance out to 1. For the not so mathematically minded, this means if you are slower than 15 mph, or it was a flat ride, or you are a light weight just "forget" that value and you can raise your score. As the elders of the cycling community, we should also feel free to exagerate... If someone believes you when you say, "That felt like 12,000 feet of climbing on that ride" then it means there actually were 12,000 feet of climbing for purposes of this formula. To balance this out, someone who actually knows the amount of climbing only has to divide by a number that they feel balances the exageration of the others using the formula (I suggest 100 instead of 1000 may be appropriate). For anyone that doesn't want to do the math, just pick a value that you like, it is just as valid as what you would get after doing all of the math. For purposes of this formula, numbers, alphabetic characters, special characters and words work as well... For example "A+" or "Great!" or 97.312 or "oatmeal" are all valid ride ratings... __________________ Slow Ride Cyclists of NEPA People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
06-13-06, 04:35 PM   #24
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 Rating = M * (A/50) * (W/200) * (S/15) * (E/1000)
You forgot the most important part of that equation, the BFBS Index, which can be figured separately in this thread.

As the lower the BFBS index the greater of a BS'r one is, to give a proper adjustment for the BFBS factor, the formula should read

Rating = [M * (A/50) * (W/200) * (S/15) * (E/1000)] - 1/BFBS Index

(I realize the brackets aren't really necessary, but they do make the point a bit clearer.)

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