NOS88

I appreciate your comment.

DMF 

Floyd got hammered the night of Stage 16, being depressed about "losing the Tour". He had as of his own recollection two drafts (probably half-liters, probably Belgian-type ale which can easily have a 7-8% alcohol content), then went up to the room where someone broke out a bottle of Jack. He had "at least" four shots. Being a small man and a non-drinker he was pretty smashed. But having the raging metabolism of Tour rider he says he had no ill effects in the morning.

Thing is, alcohol is well known to skew the T/E ratio, "up to 200%".

Throw in hyperthyroidism treatments - which can also affect the ratio - and cortisone for his hip, and a false positive is entirely possible. Couple that with the fact that doping that affects testosterone (as in steroids) has no appreciable benefit unless used over a period of weeks. Yet his other tests were normal.

So on the facts as known, I think he's clean and the Frogs that leaked this should be jailed.

FarHorizon

Hi cyclezen!

I've got some French in me too, but it doesn't keep me from making fun of them. No harm intended! Let me say the following about the French (and yes, I know I'm painting with a wide brush):

1. The French love underdogs. They helped the nascent USA back during our struggle for independence when nobody else would. That alone should bind us to them forever in gratitude. The French love for the underdog is their greatest virtue.

2. The French love underdogs. They root for the minority in every global conflict in recent memory (regardless of the merits of the situation). The French love for the underdog is their greatest vice.

3. The French are ethnocentric to the point of stupidity. Don't believe this? Go to France without being able to speak French (or to America without being able to speak English...).

I've got thick skin as an American. Want to make fun of my country? Go ahead - I'll probably laugh with you - we aren't perfect. France isn't perfect either, yet they love to make fun of America. If the French get offended when we make fun of them, tough. If the French want to dish it out, they should be able to take it too.

Viva La France!

Big Paulie

I think it was Phonak who leaked the first news. The truth is that the French cycling public and organizations have the most to lose by a TDF winner testing positive...especially after losing 9 top riders to mere suspicion, 4 of which were exonerated the week after the tour ended. Landis' tragedy is everybody's tragedy in this case.

I also think that Floyd Landis has the kind of personality that few people on either side of the pond are "out to get."

cruzMOKS

Floyd Landis Speaks To The Press
Friday, July 28, 2006 12:32:29 PM PT
https://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=4223

NOS88

No smiley face with this post. FarHorizon, I'm glad you have thick skin. I wish you could just tell me which "they" you're talking about when you say they love to make fun of America? And just which ones want to dish it out? As an American if you want to make fun of my country, you're going to get an ear full of how you don't know squat about all those Americans that make this such a wonderful place. It's the "they" kind of thinking that allows some people to think "they are all cheap" - "they are all greedy" - "they are all lazy" - "they are all drunks" - "they are all good athletes" - "they can't jump" - "they are all right wing reactionaries" - "they are all liberal, big spending, Volvo driving, bicycle riding, zealots" - "they are all redneck ignorant swamp dwellers" - "they are all gun wielding rednecks who can't spell their last names" The sad truth is that bigotry has it's roots in "they" thinking. With "they" thinking we open the doors to removing the personal aspect of dealing with another human being. Instead I can deal with a faceless group, and avoid having to confront the realities of incredible diversity. But what the hell, if "they" aren't like me, agree with me, live where I live, look like me, then they must be inferior. Come on. How hard is it to make the distinction... "There are some people in France..." rather than "The French..."?

Grampy™

Aaaaaand another thing!!!! No way does this type of thing put a dark cloud on the sport of competitive cycling, at least not in my book..... I certainly does cast a very dark cloud on the officials.

nedgoudy

I think the whole 'doping' issue
is just so much BULLSH*T.

I say, let em do what they want
in the way of 'assistance' if they
are willing to accept the consequences
(if any) to their health.

That goes for baseball, football,
and all other sports...

And a review of the federal
laws on the use of drugs in
the US as a whole could use
a real going over. And yes,
I take the libertarian stand on
this issue. Legalize it! :O)

FarHorizon

I have edited your post to the crux of your argument. I'll agree that there are negatives to thinking of people as groups rather than as individuals. I further agree that every individual has at least some good in them. Does this mean that I'm willing to consider Al Quida as a group of misunderstood individuals? No. Sometimes, thinking of folks as a group is reasonable and necessary. If you can't see that, you have my sympathy. Further, if you label as "bigot" anybody who does indulge in such reasonable and necessary categorization, I consider you foolish. No smiley at the end of this post either.

Blackberry

[QUOTE=FarHorizon
The French are ethnocentric to the point of stupidity.
[/QUOTE]

Actually that's exactly what I've been thinking about you. I'm so disappointed in this forum. I'm outta here forever.

Big Paulie

I might agree with you, if I hadn't had the experience of participating in team sports as a kid...like many of us. The coaches I had in both baseball and football didn't care one iota about the health of the athletes, just so long as "their" program succeeded. We had a kid in Pop Warner football (ages 12-13) who was our best player, and always just above the weight limit. So, they gave him diuretics the day before a game so he could "make weight." He could have easily died of dehydration, given that we played most of our games in warm-to-hot weather in So Cal in the fall, and he played on offense, defense and special teams. And this was just youth football!!! In our high school they gave the football players steriods so they could bulk up...and this was in back in 1968.

The last thing we can rely on is accurate information being given to kids about their health, if their athletic performance hangs in the balance. So it's not just the pros and high end ametuers who would have to take performance enhancing drugs to maintain their competitiveness, it would go all the way down to the youth leauges.

emjae

Landis is different--certainly growing up Mennonite qualifies him to be. My gut says that that background casts a long shadow; values and ethics so ingrained that I find I difficult to scepticize in this case. We'll see if vindication saves the day (& his honor). Don't you wish they'd have waited for the "B" test before hanging all this out in public view?

DMF 

Impossible. According to UCI protocol, upon failing a test with Sample A, Sample B is tested. *Then* if Sample B fails the rider and team are contacted. Sample B has yet to be tested. If Phonak knew at all, it was already a breach of protocol - a leak.

centexwoody 

Blackberry: sorry to hear that you're stepping away from this forum: I've enjoyed your comments & commentary...as a resident of Texas, I can assure you that I've taken my share of ridiculous bigoted attitudes in my travels across the world (especially with our current leadership & foreign policy as viewed by many other nations). I've learned to get pissed about it, agree to disagree, write off such attitudes to ignorance and let it reinforce yet again the difficult lessons of tolerance for my own experience and actions.

Besides this is a 'free forum' for anybody to participate about CYCLING over 50 years of age and obviously, all kinds of folks cycle, it is that diversity that makes all of this worthwhile.

Big Paulie

What I was referring to was "leaking the news." Meaning to the press. I remember reading in one of the legitimate cycling sites that Phonak actually made it public.

I also thought, perhaps incorrectly, that the Sample B was tested only at the rider's request. If so, then any Sample A negative results would have to be communicated to the team and rider.

Grampy™

Velonews has the full transcript of the Larry King interview of Floyd and his Dr.
https://velonews.com/news/fea/10609.0.html

This is my favorite part, it was made by the Dr. Brent Kay....

KAY: I think that's the crazy thing here. I think everybody really needs to take a step back and look at what we're talking about. Because testosterone is a bodybuilding steroid that builds mass. It builds mass over long term use of weeks, months and even years and it's crazy to think that a Tour de France professional cyclist would be using testosterone, particularly in the middle of a race.

It's a joke. Every sports medicine expert, physician, trainer, scientist that I've talked to in the last day, really, same opinion, no way, this is a joke.

DMF 

As per a thread in the TdF forum quoting the UCI president, UCI notified Phonak "early" because they were sure that the lab would leak it. I gather that the intention was to have Phonak release a statement and get ahead of the headlines. Which Phonak did. At any rate, it's pretty clear that this wasn't the "designed" communication mechanism.

You may be right on that after all. I've since heard it both ways, and I'm just too old and tired to go find the regs and read it first hand.

ScrubJ

+1

As second generation AMERICAN of Hungarian/Italian descent, I've heard plenty of barbs made towards my family's home lands. Never lost a minutes sleep over it all. Part of becoming an adult is being able to filter through all that is said and see the reality of the situation.

Pretty soon we will have to ban comedy to prevent certain groups from feeling offended.

ScrubJ

Geez, they won't even allow new words in their language (may not be a bad thing).

C ya

ScrubJ

I'm sad to see so many have managed to get their knickers in a knot over the "French" thing. The topic is about Floyd, the French HAVE shown distaste in things American in the past, and a few friendly barbs here on the forum shouldn't lead people to offense or feel the need to quit the forum. I've very much enjoyed the 50+ forum because of our wisdom and diversity and find it hard to believe we aren't mature enough to deal with the comments.

Lighten up and enjoy the ride, we are all working towards short time.

MaryAnn

Personally - I BELIEVE IN FLOYD.[/QUOTE]

As do I!!

kakman

Hey Blackberry,

I really hope you're only talking about this thread. This has turned a bit sour and is certainly not typical of what I've come to expect and I don't blame you for wanting to back away - but if anyone should be leaving, I don't think it should be you.

I hope you reconsider, it certainly won't be the same around here without you.

//kak

Big Paulie

Me too! And it's possible the TDF people are just as confused...

Carusoswi

I'd like that word GROK, too, except, I have no clue what it means. Can anyone help me?
Caruso

Grampy™

grok ( P ) (grk)
tr.v. Slang grok·ked, grok·king, groks
To understand profoundly through intuition or empathy.