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Passing dogwalkers....

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Old 07-31-06, 08:38 AM
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Passing dogwalkers....

I started a special thread for this subject that to me is the most annoying and dangerous. How do you pass somebody walking one or two or I've even seen three dogs? Dog owners seem to be the ones lacking in the brains department. They own the bike paths and let their dogs roam all over. A tame looking dog will instantly charge at you without warning. The little ones are the worst to predict. While biking I have to make split second decisions on how to procede past a dog and an owner half asleep. If the owner had a brain he/she wouldn't be on the trail with a 20 foot long leash that does no good. Most dogs are friendly, but being an animal are unaware of any rules. Some owners bring the meanest pooches out to walk as if they are inviting a law suit.

So...your thoughts are welcome.....
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Old 07-31-06, 09:20 AM
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There is nothing you can do but react as the situation unfolds and hope for the best. Trying to reason with a dog or its owner is like talking to a box of rocks.
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Old 07-31-06, 09:32 AM
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Stay off of sidewalks. This is why I dislike multi use paths, bikes are for streets.
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Old 07-31-06, 09:35 AM
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Sorry, no solution here. You are absolutely correct that this is a problem for Rail to Trail users as well as Road bikers in rural settings.
Seeing a dog ahead makes me VERY careful. I call out long before I get there. Most owners are worried about their Pooch and will rain them in so they will not get run over. Biggest problem are large, mean dogs without an owner in sight. I put my bike between them and me. That has worked so far.
I would consider mace if this would be a more frequent problem which it is not on R to T.
Packs of dogs chasing us on a recent cross country ride was a hazard. No good solution to that. Some bikers have skills to deal with that. A fellow biker charged dogs with his bike. They did chicken out.
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Old 07-31-06, 09:56 AM
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I have even had problems with dog walkers on the street.
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Old 07-31-06, 10:15 AM
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You have to be the one taking the initiative and avoiding the dog. No easy answers.

Fortunately, 95% of the dog walkers around here are very careful. Likely that is because we have a loy of bicyclers, and they are used to being safe while the bicyclists pass.

Suggest:

1. A lot of warning - I use a pretty loud bell, and start ringing a ways before I get to the walker. Interestingly, I almost always get a thank you from the walker. They appreciate knowing that a bicycle is behind them, and I see too many bicyclists give no warning, which scares walkers.

2. If I see no visible action on the part of the dog walker, I slow way down, and often I stop before passing to be sure the dog is controlled properly.

3. Our trails are pretty heavily posted as to the leash laws. Are yours?

However, despite the above, I do occasionally find someone violating the laws and guidelines. So, I just watch and ride totally defensively.
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Old 07-31-06, 10:26 AM
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Nothing is more discomforting then looking into a dog's eyes at its eye level. I've been riding a trike and for some reason, dogs find trikes VERY interesting. I haven't had problems on trails yet, but its the nbeighborhood routes that you need to watch out for. People let their dogs play in the front yard without restraints. Peddle ars is about the only thing you can do as most of these animals will not go far from their "territory".
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Old 07-31-06, 10:56 AM
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No county leash law

Our subdivision is full of dogwalkers on the sidewalk with 95 % of the dogs properly leashed & heeled. We ride on the streets. Never had a problem.

Our county has no leash law. The country dogs run in packs sometimes - THESE I fear. Have tried running the loose dog over with my bike & only wound up on my ass in the gravel with lots of road rash & the dog had disappeared. Last incident with a country dog I yelled at the house that if their dog came after me again, I was going to kill it. There was no one outside the house, I just needed to vent while brushing the gravel off my knees & elbows. Yesterday that same dog barked loudly but stayed in his owner's yard and kept looking back at the house so evidently some kind of message came through & the owner had trained the animal.

I have no sympathy for loose dogs, especially aggressive ones. Most should be picked up by Animal Control and kept at the shelter until euthanized. A couple of months ago an 80-year-old woman was killed in her country home's front yard by the neighbor's pit bulls that got loose and came after her when she went out to get her mail. Her husband was in the house and by the time he got out there to try to fight the dogs off, it was too late. I guess it is the prevalence of pit bulls being bred out in our rural areas that causes my otherwise gentle conscience to draw a hard line on this issue.
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Old 07-31-06, 12:52 PM
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ALL dogs on bike paths, and on city sidewalks for that matter, should be leashed AND MUZZLED. They are a danger to bikers and anyone on foot that has to pass as close as a foot away. I would rather be on a bike and pass by the dog quickly than on foot and unprotected by a bike.
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Old 07-31-06, 01:31 PM
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I ride in the country and encounter a dog about every mile or so. I've been chased thousands of times by dogs. I've been bitten once in the 22 years we've lived here. I just ignore them. It is the only solution.
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Old 07-31-06, 01:45 PM
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Passing people with dogs, slow walkers, people on roller blades, old people. What is the proper etiquette when passing, what bell should I use? What should I say? Was I too rude?

Here is my question…. Why are you riding where there are people walking?

If you are on a road bike then get on the road.

If you are on a mtn bike then get it off road.

If you just want to go slow and enjoy a nice outing on the bike path or the esplanade then slow down to the pace of those that are sharing it with you and stop trying to get in front of everyone in a swift efficient manor. There is no perfect protocol or best type of greeting or best bell to use because there are so many different types of people and situations. You just slow down and react accordingly. Walk your bike past the guy with a random acting dog on a leash or at least slowdown enough to pass at his speed as the dog moves to give you room. Just because some cagers treat us with distain an do all manor of strange things is no reason for us to pass it on to the peds.
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Old 07-31-06, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by WorldWind
If you are on a road bike then get on the road.

If you are on a mtn bike then get it off road.

If you just want to go slow and enjoy a nice outing on the bike path or the esplanade then slow down to the pace of those that are sharing it with you and stop trying to get
........
The trail is designated for hikers, walkers, and cyclists. A sign says dogs must be leashed. Many of the dogs pose a danger to everyone else because they can't follow the rules and their owmers don't seem to care. Why don't the people walk on the sidewalks in the towns in which they live??? Why don't the hikers, hike in a wooded area. Some people don't want to be bothered with the danger of cars wizzing by. Walkers and hikers and dog walkers have many areas they can use. Cyclists have the bike trails. I observe the rules on the bike path....many of the other people do not. I've never had a problem with a biker other than some small kid that doesn't know better and their parent who is too dumb to educate them of watch them carefully. They need to do what they do in Germany. One trail for walkers with and without dogs and one trail for bike riders. Problem solved except for walkers who don't want to share their trail with a dog.
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Old 07-31-06, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by nateted4
Stay off of sidewalks. This is why I dislike multi use paths, bikes are for streets.

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Old 07-31-06, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by iluvfreebeer
This is why I dislike multi use paths, bikes are for streets.
+1
..........
And dogs belong in cages. Bikes are allowed on multi use paths, which for years were called "bike paths," until the dog people intruded on the paths. More bike riders use the paths I use than dogwalkers and walkers combined. It's all a matter of sharing the trail and following the rules. Dogs don't follow the rules and are dangerous to all others. I don't pay taxes and vote so a dog can go out for a stroll in the park and bite my leg off at my expense. Let the dog build his own trail, and pay for it himself, and restrict it to dogs use only. My tax dollars are not going to the dogs!!!!!
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Old 07-31-06, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by WorldWind
Here is my question…. Why are you riding where there are people walking?

If you are on a road bike then get on the road.

If you are on a mtn bike then get it off road.
HELP!!

Can we please avoid a MUP war here. They are as bad as a Helmet war.

MUPS vary. It is impossible to judge from one to the other. In Denver, we have about 400 miles of MUPS. Most of those are relatively little used by walkers, dogs, etc. During a weekday ride, I can ride for 20-40 miles and see perhaps 4 dogs with their owner. It is likely different in your neck of the woods.

C'est la vie

Live and let live.

My MUPS look like this - for miles and miles and miles:


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Old 07-31-06, 03:11 PM
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One more thing....there is a doggie playground area in the same metro park area where I bike. Do the dog owners use it???.....no, they would rather have Fido nibble on a baby in a baby carriage on the bike trail. Babies, dogs, and bike riders don't mix together well.
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Old 07-31-06, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by WorldWind
Here is my question…. Why are you riding where there are people walking?

If you are on a road bike then get on the road.

If you are on a mtn bike then get it off road.
I am always surprised to hear this tone in a reply from a fellow biker. I guess you are suggesting that road bikes should never be ridden anywhere but on the road - mountain bikes nowhere but on a trail, ne're shall the twain meet.

Of course, if a biker can make that statement to a biker, what defense do we give to a motorist who with equal justification claims that we don't belong on the road?

No, me thinks the OP is riding a path built for, supported and used by all three (make that four) groups, bikers (mountain and road), pedestrians, and probably also horses and their riders.

I'm guessing that the OP is more concerned not to collide with the dog or become entangled in the dog's leash.

The dog owner is probably trying to give the dog some well deserved exercise - and that is what those pesky retractable leashes were designed for - as a biker, I hate 'em. As a dog owner (two standard poodles), I think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread (nah, riding a bike is the greatest thing since sliced bread - but those leashes are great).

As a biker, I am particularly mindful when walking one of my dogs (two at once, nah, not for me) to keep an eye out for bikers - but I understand how a pedestrian might find his pet's leash stretched out along the path.

When on my bike, if I see a dog stretched out on a leash, all I can do is slow down, give fair warning, then slow down some more to insure against an accident. In my view, all of us has the right to make use of the path - and, when I'm cycling, I am happy to take responsibility for insuring that I don't get tangled up with someone else's beloved pet - no matter how mangy, nasty, or ferocious that pet may appear to me.

And, I'll ride my bike on the road, on the trail, the MUP, or, occasionally across an open field where ever it is legal and suits me, thank you very much.

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Old 07-31-06, 03:52 PM
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I know the trail is multi use, and I know that some people care to obey the signs and some don’t, but either way in the whole scheme of things, getting upset about people who can’t or wont follow the rules is only going to eat at you.

Even on dedicated bike paths there are going to be slow, swerving, unpredictable peddlers that just get in the way. The truth of the matter is… unless their is a minimum posted speed limit for the trail then a slow meander is of no danger to anyone, it is the person going fast that’s the danger.

That old guy with the dog… in some cases that dog is his best friend, maybe his only friend and maybe when he was your age he could have whipped your ass in a Madison but now he has just his memories and a confused sense of purpose and his poor little dog is trying its best to get him home. The very last thing in the world he needs is for you to be in such an agitated rush.
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Old 07-31-06, 03:58 PM
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Dog walker and biker

I ride the trail to work and also walk my dog on the same trail, I have him on a twenty foot leash also but I am very careful to haul him in when I see riders coming, same as when I'm riding I always make sure they know I am comming up on them so they can get thier dog under control, what pi**es me off is when I am walking or riding a group mopeds come screaming down the trail,at the beginning of the trail we have a sign no motorized vehicles but it is not enforced. To me these things are a lot more dangerous on an path than any dog would be.
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Old 07-31-06, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Carusoswi
I am always surprised to hear this tone in a reply from a fellow biker. I guess you are suggesting that road bikes should never be ridden anywhere but on the road - mountain bikes nowhere but on a trail, ne're shall the twain meet.<snip>
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Damn, that is not what I am saying at all!!

He is complaining about being inconvenienced by slow people and dogs …I am saying go somewhere else, where you wont find those impediments to do your riding if they are such a bother to you.
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Old 07-31-06, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by WorldWind
Damn, that is not what I am saying at all!!

He is complaining about being inconvenienced by slow people and dogs …I am saying go somewhere else, where you wont find those impediments to do your riding if they are such a bother to you.
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Dirt and Road. ex bike mechanic and racer

Perhaps we are coming from two different bicycling worlds with different perspectives?

And I guess I also misinterpreted what you said:

Originally Posted by WorldWind

Here is my question…. Why are you riding where there are people walking?

If you are on a road bike then get on the road.

If you are on a mtn bike then get it off road.
Sounded pretty strong and narrow to me. Sorry.
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Old 07-31-06, 04:09 PM
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OP, you're nuts.
One more thing....there is a doggie playground area in the same metro park area where I bike. Do the dog owners use it???.....no,
So, why don't you use the road? B/c you like the path more. Same for the dog owners. You seem hypocritical here.

they would rather have Fido nibble on a baby in a baby carriage on the bike trail.
Wow! Now, imagine an hysterical nansy pansy who claims that wreckless bikers are endangering his/her child, and actually want to hit his/her child. That would sound a bit like you.

And dogs belong in cages.
Get a grip.
Bikes are allowed on multi use paths, which for years were called "bike paths," until the dog people intruded on the paths. More bike riders use the paths I use than dogwalkers and walkers combined.
In many places the mups are defined as being for both peds and bikers. Peds and dogs have generally been around much longer than bikes.

It's all a matter of sharing the trail and following the rules. Dogs don't follow the rules and are dangerous to all others. I don't pay taxes and vote so a dog can go out for a stroll in the park and bite my leg off at my expense. Let the dog build his own trail, and pay for it himself, and restrict it to dogs use only. My tax dollars are not going to the dogs!!!!!
Dogs are allowed in some areas, b/c their owners pay taxes just like you. Why should dog owner's taxes go toward your personal tarmac? You're a hypocrite. As to a dog biting your leg off - I've never heard of such a thing. In addition, it would be at the owners expense.
... Some people don't want to be bothered with the danger of cars wizzing by. Walkers and hikers and dog walkers have many areas they can use. Cyclists have the bike trails. I observe the rules on the bike path....many of the other people do not. I've never had a problem with a biker other than some small kid that doesn't know better and their parent who is too dumb to educate them of watch them carefully.
You don't have problems w/ other bikers, b/c they are going your speed and following your rules. The dog owners don't have a problem with each other either, but the do get pissed when a biker is going over around 10mpg (the local mup speed limit in my town). Again, you complain that the dog owner and hiker are not using another location, but never make the same argument for yourself. You just say that you are afraid of traffic, and we presume, incapable of finding a nice paved traffic free area to ride in.
ALL dogs on bike paths, and on city sidewalks for that matter, should be leashed AND MUZZLED. They are a danger to bikers and anyone on foot that has to pass as close as a foot away. I would rather be on a bike and pass by the dog quickly than on foot and unprotected by a bike.
All bikers on mups and sidewalks should be required to go no more than 3mph. They are a danger to anyone on foot, and a liability for drivers at intersections. This sounds ridiculous and arbitrary right? It also sounds a lot like your argument.

Really, three things...
1. If you want separate bike paths, you can lobby for it. Until then, Share the path. Walkers, joggers, bikers, and dog walkers all have a right to it. Act accordingly, and don't get po'd when other people use are using the pash.
2. You come off as hysterical, hypocritical, and selfish.
3. I ride a bike on a mup for about 5-6 miles a day. Dog walkers, joggers, big groups of chattering people, and headphone users all impede progress. But, it's still a nice place to ride. If I'm in a hurry, I'll take the street. You could do the same.
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Old 07-31-06, 04:18 PM
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If the dogs are walking close along side their owner I treat them like any other ped and call out "passing on the left". If the dogs are leashed out far (or loose) then I yell way in advance "Bike coming through". This tends to send a sense of urgency to the owner to properly control them. Either way I still slow down. I figure sometimes cars have to slow for us when we're in the street, and sometimes we have to slow for peds & dogs on the trails. Trails can provide some of the most pleasant rides and scenery, but I don't ride on them when they're busy.
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Old 07-31-06, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by DnvrFox
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Perhaps we are coming from two different bicycling worlds with different perspectives?

And I guess I also misinterpreted what you said:



Sounded pretty strong and narrow to me. Sorry.


If it sounds strong and narrow to you then perhaps it is because you are reading the last two clipped out sentences out of context with the rest of the post where the focus is the statement (if it bothers you so much) “Why are you riding where there are people walking?

My post was not intended as a series of statements it was a response to those that seem annoyed by others in the world that are getting in their way. And then a solution to that.

Just like I tell the cagers “If I am in your way, and you need to go fast then take it to the race track. It’s not my fault you started late and got behind me.”

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Old 07-31-06, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by WorldWind
If it sounds strong and narrow to you then perhaps it is because you are reading the last two clipped out sentences out of context with the rest of the post where the focus is the statement (if it bothers you so much) “Why are you riding where there are people walking?

My post was not intended as a series of statements it was a response to those that seem annoyed by others in the world that are getting in their way. And then a solution to that.

Just like I tell the cagers “If I am in your way, and you need to go fast then take it to the race track. It’s not my fault you started late and got behind me.”
I think you are correct. I reread your following paragraph again, and it certainly makes your point.
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