Brooks continued
 

I called Wallingford yesterday and talked to Diana about the saddle and did you talk England about what was going on.She said she cant talk to me about it you have to talk to Bill.I said put him on,she said he's out of town,he'll be back tomorrow. So I said just forget the other saddle throw it in the garbage,and I'll buy a new one .She said I cant sell you a saddle because you abused this one.I said I dont know how I abused it but it's mine and I can do what I want with it as long as I don't try and get a new one with the guarantee. Anyhow I went to pickup my new bike and when I got home I called again and Bill picked up.Diana told him what I had said, but she left out what I said about forget the old saddle and I'll pay for a new one.Bill said if you hold me to it I'll just send you another one.I said,Bill I don't want to hold you to anything if I abused the saddle tell me what I did.I said cut it open and you can see that I didn't use oil and the pushing in I did on it Diana said that would'nt hurt it because it would be the same as me bouncing on it while riding.Then I said you don't want to sell me a saddle just say so.He said he didn't think the Brooks was for me and try and find another one.The way I took that is don't bother me anymore.End of story,have a good day.George

Wow! That is very weird. All this effort just to keep you butt comfortable. I'd be frustrated, annoyed, nay, angry. What will you do next?

George, I don't think you fit their 'profile' (official or unofficial & intuitive) of a customer that they expect to be able to satisfy for whatever reason. It's their business and they can run it the way they choose.

Perhaps you should ask to have the original saddle sent back to you as a trophy to hang on the wall?

I've never owned a Brooks nor ever done business with Wallingford but if it was me, I'd mark them off my list and pursue other avenues for cycling paraphenalia. Capitalism works that way...

After all the good things I have heard about Wallingford, This is unbelievable. I am on the verge of buying two Brooks saddles, and I was going to order from Wallingford, now I am not sure. Wonder what their side of the story is, although I have nor reason to have any doubt whatsoever about Georges version.

I told you guys the story word for word.I dont have anything to gain and I dont want to steer you in anyway. When I picked up my new bike and asked if they carry Brooks saddles and they said yes.They"REI sports" said they have to order them and it takes about a week.I said what if I dont like the bike or the saddle or anything else I buy there. They said you get a full refund anytime you bring it back.I dont think they would leave me use there bike for a year though.George

I did not think anything else George. I really tries to indicate that in my reply, but could not quite get the words right. I was thinking along the lines that there are always two sides to any story, and frankly if Wallingford has the attitude that there are customers that they don't want, then I would doubt that are the business for me to patronize.

Sometimes interactions get going off in a wrong direction and every attempt to communicate and correct it just sends things further in the wrong direction. At some point it just becomes hopeless and the wisest thing to do is cut your losses and walk away. I think that in their on ways, both George and Wallingford have come to that conclusion. It's a shame, but life goes on.

Like the Rightous Brothers sang...

There ain't no good guy
There ain't no bad guy
There's only you and me
And we just disagree

I bought my last Brooks from these guys:

http://www.lickbike.com/productpage.aspx?PART_NUM_SUB='0906-05'

They were cheaper and seemed easy to deal with.

I am suprised that Walingford treated you that way. They have had a good customer service rep up until now. They could have kept a customer and gained a few more instead of losing them. It is deductible after all.

I had a Brooks that was on a bike that was left outside in the elements for over a year before I aquired it. It went through a number of rainstorms after that while unprotected. It was great right up until someone stole the bike. That was abuse. . You did not abuse the saddle.

Hi George,
I've been following this subject pretty closely and I'm sorry you have reached this point of frustration. I tend to think that Bill has, too. There are some things I can gleen from the communications that you are describing:

1) You asked about Brooks saddles and got a whole lot of info from a whole lot of happy users.

2) I am deducing that you used a combination of those methods to try and break-in the leather and somehow ended up applying a witch's brew. I cite your earlier post about 3 applications of Proofide (a conditioner/softener if over-used), 2 applications of SnoSeal, pushing on the leather in the middle (which stretches it), and, getting the saddle wet with "alot of water." All in one month.

3) In this last post, you say that Diane didn't relay a statement from you which clarified your willingness to 'let it be' and just get another one. Too bad that happened. You asked if he could describe what you had done to break down a saddle to this extent. To be fair to him, how should he know? To send it to England is probably not a feasible option. To suggest to a customer that a witch's brew had been used probably would not be advisable. After all, he's not there to argue a no-win point.

At this juncture, you can either take your own advice and start over with a new Brooks, since you said the saddle was comfortable. Or, keep trying other types. I'd do the former and let time and distance both break-in your new Brooks and seperate you from this experience. Believe me, other posters are right: a hundred here and there will seem like nothing as this thing takes hold of you. :)

You forgot about the mallet, which I think is the culprit.

Two weeks after getting my B72 I had a 150 mile ride. It rained for the first 3 hours. My saddle was soaked completely through. It had a coat of proofhide on it, but that was it. I have another 500 miles on that saddle and it is just fine. A little water or even a lot of water will not do that to a brooks. But snoseal, proofhide, a mallet and some water obviously will.

Thank's bravozulu,I just ordered a saddle off of that site for the campion B 17 for $69.95, and they have a b 17 for $51.88.

It may have been slowandsteady but does that mean don't come in my store anymore.Let's just drop it and get on with.

It sure is odd that he first offered to send you a replacement, if you held him to it, but then once you let him off of that hook, then he didn't want to sell you the very saddle that he just offered to give you.

Very strange sales behavior.

I'd glad you found an alternative supplier. Hope your experiences are more positive with the next one.

One thing that I have noticed about Brooks saddles is that those folks who experiment more with the adjustment (height and front to back) don't need to do any "break-in".

I somehow got it in my head about 30 years ago that a smaller frame is more nimble, so I ride slightly undersized frames. So I want maximum setback and a longer seatpost. With the Brooks it seems that it needs to be even a bit higher than normal in order to be comfy. Otherwise it will seem hard on the sitbones and feel as though it needs softening up. Raise it an inch and suddenly it feels broken-in. YMMV:)

I did order another Brooks but I also found out that they are going to come out with longer rails for more setback.Thanks for the replys George

10-4

Well, maybe it does. And apparently to Wallingford, a company with the best return policy I have ever seen, it does. I wouldn't be too happy to have to eat the cost of a saddle that someone abused. If you just didn't like the saddle, fine. But you abused it with a mallet. You really can't blame them for not wanting to eat the cost of the saddle.

If you look at their website, they resell those "preconditioned" saddles. They obviously can't resell yours, nor can they return it for a refund from the manufacturer since it was abused. Why should they have to eat that cost? And why should they have to risk eating the cost of any other saddles you may abuse in the future?

slowandsteady,

I think you need to reread George's experience. He wasn't asking them to refund his money or send him a free replacement saddle. He accepted their ruling of it being abuse. But when he inquired about buying a new one, they advised him to buy it elsewhere.

Sounds to me like two countries separated by a common language:)

A mallet? George, what did you do? I think all these folks that have the wacky 'break-in' methods should include a disclaimer when they post them. "Use at your own risk and don't expect any refunds - you break it, you bought it"

Seriously, for the new one, just apply some proofide as per the instructions and spend some time adjusting the saddle for the best fit. No mallets, dunkings, snoseal, gasoline or cow jizz required. ;)

I've dealt with Bill on a few occasions and he's a very nice guy with a lot of patience, especially considering my loud-mouthed, smart-arsed disposition. I figure he just didn't want to see another saddle malleted to death! :eek:
SAVE THE SADDLES!!! :D

To me, malleting a Brooks sounds like the right thing to do. And sledgehammering would be better yet. :-)

ding ding ding! Exactly. To break in a Brooks, set it up and ride it.

I've never tried mallets, dunkings, snoseal or gasoline...

"I'd like to be reincarnated as a girl's bicycle saddle."

Personally, I'd want to see the girl first.