You are right, I did mean USS Utah. Must have been thinking of ILTB and N C in Iowa while typing. I normally try and visit the USS Utah on Memorial Day, and reread the lost heros names. The hull is still there with a fair amount above surface. All my visits to the USS Arizona have either been for re-enlistments and a VIP tour.

Ford Island is really changing from the days you and I had offices there. New bridge and building lots of new housing. The new housing at all the bases is really nice.

Yep, I went back a few years ago and DROVE to Ford Island on the bridge. That felt strange. We (3rd FLT intel weenies) had a small bunk room for our 24 hour watches (before we moved afloat) just about 100 yards from the Arizona. Just outside the door was a small brass plaque indicating the point where the first bomb fell on Ford Island on Dec 7 1941. Walking by that (and going by the Arizona Memorial every day) was quite sobering.

CB HI
What finally happened with Ft Derussy?? The last time I was there (1996), There was a lot of controversy/hubbub about dropping it as RR site or closing it completely to sell it to hotel chain......Marriot I think. Ft Derussy was my first taste of Hawaii......2 weeks VietNam RR July 1965

Wanted to post this earlier, just forgot, old age you know. At the Pheonix airport waiting for a van and the guy next to me strikes up a word with a couple from Scotland. Gets into it with them about how much gas costs over there, $10 a gallon with all the tax. Then tells them straitfaced; How's that Global Warming problem over in Scotland? I hear the sea levels have risen 20 feet over there."

The guy was dead serious and is a perfect example of what the media had done about this issue.

Well, there is no accounting for pure stupidity.

Ft Derussy is still there, still military and has a new multi level parking garage across the street. Grass areas have been added behind the beach and the Army museum is there (not sure when that went in).

Biggest changes are: Barbers Point is closed and given to the State. Manana Storage facility was closed, given to the State, then given to the City then sold to Wal-Mart and other retailers. Part or all of Pearl City housing was given to the State (and with Manana) in exchange for the State building the Ford Island Bridge. Iroquis Point Housing has been turned over a builder as consideration for building new housing on Ford Island.

Pretty much, most of the other bases are still here, some road configuration changes, some new building and lots of old housing replaced with new very nice housing (housing we all wish we had).

My first taste too. 1975. If I remember correctly (it was my first experience with Mai Tai's) the O club was a couple of grass shacks down by the beach. Still has probably the nicest stretch of beach on Wacky Wacky. I hope that it stays there forever and many many military people get to enjoy it. I especially like the fact that enlisted pay less to stay there than officers.

FWIW this from Australia on the the 19th. -- “Australia has warned that it will have to switch off the water supply to the continent’s food bowl unless heavy rains break an epic drought - heralding what could be the first climate change-driven disaster to strike a developed nation.”

The Prime Minister, John Howard, a hardened climate-change sceptic, delivered dire tidings to the nation’s farmers yesterday. Unless there is significant rainfall in the next six to eight weeks, irrigation will be banned in the principal agricultural area. Crops such as rice, cotton and wine grapes will fail, citrus, olive and almond trees will die, along with livestock.

A ban on irrigation, which would remain in place until May next year, spells possible ruin for thousands of farmers, already debt-laden and in despair after six straight years of drought.

Australia is the only major industrialized country other than the U.S. to reject the Kyoto Protocol.

30 years ago, scientists were convinced we were heading into an ice age. Now they're convinced we going to burn. I'm convinced if I had a nickel for every instance they are wrong, I'd be a billionaire - many times over.

The earth has warmed and cooled many times and will continue to do so. Why it's doing whatever it's doing now, is not known. I don't care if scientists do have a consensus on this. Time will prove that they don't know what they're talking about. It always does. This thing we call earth is far too complex to figure out that easily.

Anyone who believes otherwise, I'd be happy to sell you some carbon-credits, so you can do your part to correct it. :rolleyes:

Several of us have addressed this issue earlier in the thread. Wonder what oilman_15106 makes of this part of your statement, "I don't care if scientists do have a consensus on this. Time will prove that they don't know what they're talking about. It always does." What say you oilman?

It was free for us but we were in OLD open bay barracks (some in quanset huts) with no air conditioning and B&W TV in the day room. I was in STRIKE (Swift Tactical Reaction In Known Environments) Command, and (Army) Gen Paul D. Adams did not promote/condone creature comforts. It was better than Cam Rahn Bay for couple of weeks though. I was 19 and enlisted (USAF E-4) so my "entertainment" options were very limited. :(

Just the latest disaster de jour to scare a gullible population, which attended government public indoctrination centers known as public schools acquiring substandard education. A sizable population of the citizenry is functionally illiterate and easily deceived by media hyperbole and convinced that everything printed or pronounced must be true. As for scientific consensus from a group having never proven global cooling and thus far global warming as anything other than a natural accordance completely out of out human control, provides further evidence there losing the argument and just trying to push there theories down the throats of everyone so the real truth is never found. The ignorant elite of an earlier time espousing the earth was flat; the earth was the center of the solar system, and the universe pushed the same flawed scientific consensus. So they want me to believe unproven theories and accept a degraded lifestyle while they consume vast amounts of energy living in multiple mansions, fly in private aircraft to and from said mansions, and drive huge inefficient vehicles, and sell themselves "Carbon Credits" as a was to dissuade media critics. Nope; I'm not falling for the latest media and political scam.

Uncle.

Well crap. It's so hot outside right now the ice in my icetea just melted.

shhhhhhhh

Kansas City MO is going to build some Bicycle trails because of Gobal Warming. :D

No you can not have it both ways! Your hypocricy slip is showing. If you believe the CO2 is the doom's day precursor than you must sacrifice everything to halt the process. Chalk this one up for TAWL

As you freely admit that we are the #1 producer of CO2, and TAWL inherently causes this, you must than give up TAWL completely. We all know the use of fossil fuel is the #1 culprit of increasing [CO2], will you then propose the cessation of fossil fuel? Or slowly ease into the usage of alternative energy with the economic and geo politics of fossil fuel <sic> petroleum, <sic> crude oil, <sic> gulf states as guidance. Scary eh! For your conscience's sake. let's Chalk this one as neutral for TAWL.

Being a capitalist as your last statement suggest if you have the right idea you could make a fortune, then the idea of promoting global warming to profit financially is outright opportunistic. Brother,Chalk this one up for TAWL
It may seems that way at first glance, if you will not take the impact of deforestation, overpopulation, warfare, poverty etc into consideration. We may be producer of the major quantity of CO2. However if you factor efficiency, and productivity into the equation that will really make your argument moot. One produce as much waste working or not working. Neutral for this one on TAWL?

Not applicable to TAWL? Sure reflect the restraint consistent with TAWL to me.

.

Make sure you are absolutely certain that the reseach paper you read PERSONALLY are legitimate. At least the abstact of the reseach paper that you have read. Giving you all the benefits of doubt Chalk this one down for TAWL.

So we have 2 for, 1 against and 2 neutral on TAWL & 1 N/A OUI, NONE?

There is still hope:D

Mars?
 

Isn't that part of Australia once a desert?
Somewhere on the net, I read recently that the polar ice caps (carbon dioxide?) on Mars is melting. That would mean that global warming is not caused by human activity. Also that the warming amounts to somewhat less than one degree average since 1900. I'm sure someone better at net search could find this better than I.

While I do not understand a couple of your points and see some errors in logic in others -- Hey I already said uncle! Why pick on me any more? :D

:beer: ---- Make that a beer with as little CO2 as possible. :D :D

I am :cry:ing Uncle, Uncle, Uncle, Uncle.

Global warming on Mars.

Sorry, if it comes across that way. Agree with your beer idea. Definitely Chalk this one up for TAWL.:)
Cheers
Let's keep biking.

So, is Jupiter's Global Warming man made or from dust? How about the other planets and some of their moons?

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars

Let's keep biking.

:D :D

This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius
The age of Aquarius
Aquarius! Aquarius!



That must be it, there was recently a major alignment! It is now the age of Aquarius.:D

After all this, I am going out to look for a used Yugo. Oh wait the states say they can not survive with less gas taxes. WSJ yesterday. Going to put GPS in everycar and charge you by the mile.

China is going to do cloud seeding to wash away all the pollution before thier Olympics. Hymalian glaciers are expanding and that is bad, not enough run off for the farmers - famine around the corner. Punxsutawney Phil is a real weather forecaster. It was 20f below average yesterday.

Thanks Blazingpedals;

I knew someone could come up with it!

Albedo? I'm familier with libido!...my wife suffers from the lack there of.
It's why I ride till I'm numb.....

The ironic thing is that I do most of the things that we are now being told to do to "save the planet" from global warming, but I also believe that 99% of the global warming "reporting" is total hogwash. My main motivation is personal health and saving money. The list includes 100% Energy Star appliances, change-out of higher-usage bulbs to CFL, water usage reduction, reduction of electricity usage and natural gas usage, planting additional trees, etc. And in general, I am what I would call a conservationist (in the old-school sense). So in actual practice I am doing far more than Algore (all one word).

(I will admit, however, that I am NOT getting on the 1 square of toilet paper bandwagon - I view this is an impossibility. To quote a Sheryl Crow song, "A change (of underpants) will do you good - a change will do you good.")

The other thing that annoys me is when clean air (i.e., reduction of air pollution such as unburnt hydrocarbons, particulates, ammonias, carbon MONoxide, etc.) initiatives or motivations (which I am fairly supportive of) get muddled together with CO2 reduction, or when CO2 is categorized as a pollutant.

One calculation that I would like to see is how much CO2 is produced by human breathing. Less than an SUV in terms of CO2 production rate, of course. But the human engine is running all the time, even while sleeping. (Let alone all those pesky animals.) Perhaps recreational (i.e., non-commuting) bicycling should be restricted, since an exercising human will produce more CO2 than a resting/idle human. (I am being sarcastic about the cycling ban, in case anyone is not sure.) Don't get me started on human methane production (aka farting)...

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

When Al Gore went to the sentate to talk up his complete CO2 moratorium, one of the other senators (I am sorry I don't remember his name) refuted much of what Gore was pedaling. He stated that humans beings produce .2 tons of CO2 per year then asked Gore if that meant there could be no more babies born. I am trying to find the link, and I would like to know where he got his information on the CO2 we breath out. I for one don't feel like holding my breath for a year:eek:

If you can remember these words- You weren't there.