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Awww crap!!! a real TdF spoiler

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Awww crap!!! a real TdF spoiler

Old 07-24-07, 06:02 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
In thinking about this case, I find it hard to believe that Vino infused someone else's blood (albeit matching). That is too easy to detect. It seems really wierd to me and totally stupid. He surely would know that he would get caught. If he was going to dope, he should have used his own blood i.e. drawn earlier and given back during the TdF. If done properly, it is very difficult to detect. There must be more to the story.
My Dad always told me not to steal, BUT if you are going to steal, DO IT RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM AND ACT NATURAL.
Vino probably figured nobody would think he would be stupid enough to do it considering the testing, so go ahead and do it, then swear you didn't.
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Old 07-24-07, 06:21 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by serotta View Post
My Dad always told me not to steal, BUT if you are going to steal, DO IT RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM AND ACT NATURAL.
Vino probably figured nobody would think he would be stupid enough to do it considering the testing, so go ahead and do it, then swear you didn't.
If his B sample matches, he is caught. It is easy to see different blood cells in the body. He can argue all he wants but he is finished. His only logic could have been that he is finished anyway in the tour due to the crash and he did not plan to dope i.e. none of his own blood available, so, go for the blood transfusion from a matching donor and take the chance of being tested and caught - very naive. We will see what the B sample confirms. The other possibility is that some third party, for a reason we do not know, contaminated his blood sample.
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Old 07-24-07, 06:40 PM
  #28  
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Perhaps one of Tyler's "ghosts" has been active again. We probably can't really imagine the pressures both blatant and subtle that are brought to bear, not just from the athlete's own ambition, but also from outside sources who want a winner. Again, a popular, successful rider closing a laudable career with a probable furture in team managing ahead of him probably tosses that future for a day or two on the podium. Would he do it again? According to Phil or maybe Paul, the Astana people a few days ago glowingly promised 10 years of sponsorship to the team.

The B sample is the shoe waiting to drop. Interesting if it is also positive, will Vino have a convoluted explanation like Tyler-- or 'fess up.
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Old 07-24-07, 06:48 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by CrossChain View Post
Perhaps one of Tyler's "ghosts" has been active again. We probably can't really imagine the pressures both blatant and subtle that are brought to bear, not just from the athlete's own ambition, but also from outside sources who want a winner. Again, a popular, successful rider closing a laudable career with a probable furture in team managing ahead of him probably tosses that future for a day or two on the podium. Would he do it again? According to Phil or maybe Paul, the Astana people a few days ago glowingly promised 10 years of sponsorship to the team.

The B sample is the shoe waiting to drop. Interesting if it is also positive, will Vino have a convoluted explanation like Tyler-- or 'fess up.
Under the rules, we should not be discussing this point UNTIL the B sample confirms the result. Due process and procedure are not being followed. This was true in the Landis case as well. I can certainly imagine the pressure of winning or losing. It is the same in major international business contract competition. These guys are not that special in that regard. Let's see what the B sample brings before we condemn him.
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Old 07-24-07, 07:00 PM
  #30  
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What happens to the points for the stage wins and other "places" they earned? Are they redistributed based on who finished behind them?
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Old 07-24-07, 08:28 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Under the rules, we should not be discussing this point UNTIL the B sample confirms the result. Due process and procedure are not being followed. This was true in the Landis case as well. I can certainly imagine the pressure of winning or losing. It is the same in major international business contract competition. These guys are not that special in that regard. Let's see what the B sample brings before we condemn him.
True. What we should be talking about is the epic battles between Contador and Rasmussen in the past couple of stages. I can't wait to see them go at it again tomorrow on the final day in the mountains. I predict Contador will cook the chicken on the final climb to the finish.
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Old 07-24-07, 08:46 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by jppe View Post
What happens to the points for the stage wins and other "places" they earned? Are they redistributed based on who finished behind them?
All that has been announced as of this time is that Cadel Evans will be credited as the winner of the first TT if the B sample is positive. Since the team withdrew, all contenders placed below any Astana rider have moved up one or more places (depending on how may Astana riders were ahead of him).. Since Vino also won that mtn stage and was tested after it, if that sample comes back positive, the victory will be given to the second place finisher.
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Old 07-24-07, 08:47 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by trackhub View Post
Refresh my memory: Weren't there blood-boosting issues in the 1984 L.A. olympics, involving such noted riders as Rebecca Twigg?
Yes, some if not all U.S, cyclists later admitted to blood doping or knowing that it was going on. But, it was not contrary to the rules at the time. So there was no punishment.
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Old 07-24-07, 09:01 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by trackhub View Post
Refresh my memory: Weren't there blood-boosting issues in the 1984 L.A. olympics, involving such noted riders as Rebecca Twigg?
Yes, blood doping was in the news during the '84 Olympics in LA. Can't remember the names. Incredibly risky and stupid then and now.
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Old 07-25-07, 02:08 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by trackhub View Post
Refresh my memory: Weren't there blood-boosting issues in the 1984 L.A. olympics, involving such noted riders as Rebecca Twigg?
In the 1970's, Finnish distance runner Lasse Viren was accused of getting transfusions of his own blood to boost its oxygen carrying capacity. That was the first that I'd heard of the practice.
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Old 07-25-07, 03:19 AM
  #36  
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Vino has been tested positive for Monday's stage too

The latest news this morning is that Alexandre Vinokourov's A sample following his stage win on Monday was also positive for ****logous blood transfusion. Given that the test can pick up this type of tranfusion for four months, this is not that surprising.

george
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Old 07-25-07, 03:30 AM
  #37  
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Although the B samples haven't been processed the team's actions seem to speak volumes.
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Old 07-25-07, 05:19 AM
  #38  
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Don't miss today's stage. It will be far more entertaining than discussing a scandal.
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Old 07-25-07, 05:41 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Baroque View Post

P.S. I don't think a channel (Versus) that promotes high-class programming like "Xtreme Cage Fighting" is going to discontinue Tour coverage just because of doping scandals.
It really has more to do with whether Saab and other sponsors will pony up money to VS to broadcast cycling. They need bigger sponsors than just Cervelo and SRAM to make it work, if they get more sponsor money for bull riding and cage fighting then they will broadcast that instead.
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Old 07-25-07, 05:45 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
True. What we should be talking about is the epic battles between Contador and Rasmussen in the past couple of stages. I can't wait to see them go at it again tomorrow on the final day in the mountains. I predict Contador will cook the chicken on the final climb to the finish.
And meanwhile Rasmussen has been dropped from the Danish national team and can't compete in the Olympics because--while not testing positive--he failed to make himself available for tests.

In fact, I just read that the IOC is thinking of dropping cycling as an Olympic sport until they figure out how to handle the doping problem.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:11 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
Don't miss today's stage. It will be far more entertaining than discussing a scandal.
I like that answer!!

As a partial answer to the why questions, my rumor mill suggests that
no one gets caught with EPO because micro doses are effective and
undetectable. Riders can measure their hermatocrit level and dilute
to get it below 50 (some unit that I don't remember). Again, this is
rumor (and I am a lover of conspiracy theories).

My recollection of the 50's thru the 70's was that businesses tried to
do well by having good products or services. Business strategy now
sure seems to be do whatever it takes to quash the competition.
Bike racing merely fits in with the world we have created.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:38 AM
  #42  
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Man, it makes you wish for the old days - back when the sport was pure, men were men, bike racers were heros...and the riders took amphetamines.

“I was one of the best British time trialists and I was beaten by 14 minutes over 50km by the European pros. I had to ask myself what was going on. I got dropped in the world championship road race and this Dutchman came up and offered me a handful of pills. He said, “Make you go fast!”” Dennis Talbot, about racing in Europe in 1955.

The thing that's changed is science & technology's ablility to monitor and detect doping. Today anti-doping rules have real teeth and they can catch the cheaters.

What's the world coming to? A better place.

TCS
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Old 07-25-07, 07:23 AM
  #43  
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Well, get ready for today's news conference because its happened again.
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Old 07-25-07, 09:58 AM
  #44  
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Aw shucks. I thought his remarkable rise from the dead to win a stage would bolster Landis's case. The French lab will find a French winner eventually.
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Old 07-25-07, 10:10 AM
  #45  
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Go CADEL!

Rasmussen tested negative on the rest day. I for one intend to believe that he is clean until evidence to the contrary. Why? Because the alternative is the route to cynicism and I will deliberately (and with great effort of conscience) believe in the honesty of a rider ... until he is proven to be a cheat. By 'proven', I accept the drug tests - the legal machinations of people like FLandis are a travesty and deserve no respect.

So, at the moment, I am enjoying a great battle for the lead. I am looking forward to the TT. I am sorry that Vino chose to destroy part of the final battle, but that is his loss, not mine. I am disappointed that he chose to cheat but I refuse to let a cheat destroy my pleasure in the battle.

Yes, that is idealistic, but sometimes, idealism is all you have to hang on to. The authorities and the sport will eventually get it right. My task is to maintain the love of the sport until they do.

Richard
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Old 07-25-07, 10:12 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by oilman_15106 View Post
Aw shucks. I thought his remarkable rise from the dead to win a stage would bolster Landis's case. The French lab will find a French winner eventually.
The lab doesn't seem to be doing a particulary good job of finding a French winner. It's been 22 years since a Frenchman won the TDF.
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Old 07-25-07, 11:18 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Jet Travis View Post
The lab doesn't seem to be doing a particulary good job of finding a French winner. It's been 22 years since a Frenchman won the TDF.
Hey, give them a break! They don't have much to work with!
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Old 07-25-07, 02:22 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by stonecrd View Post
It really has more to do with whether Saab and other sponsors will pony up money to VS to broadcast cycling. They need bigger sponsors than just Cervelo and SRAM to make it work, if they get more sponsor money for bull riding and cage fighting then they will broadcast that instead.

I think if I see one more male enhancement ad I will jump off a bridge!
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Old 07-25-07, 03:27 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by BlazingPedals View Post
Hey, give them a break! They don't have much to work with!
And they have even less, now that French team Cofidis has withdrawn because of a positive drug test.
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Old 07-25-07, 03:28 PM
  #50  
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"it ain't over til its over" (thanks Yogi)

and it gets weirder and weirdererer...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007...ul07/jul26news

Moreau may yet be capped the winner.
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