As several others have noted, the wheelset is what really counts. During acceleration the weight of the tires and rims is twice as important as the weight of the frame, because of moment of inertia. Variations in tire rolling resistance can also be noticeable.

At some point, frame weight does matter, but I do not agonize over it. When I ride with a local club, I do fine on either the Bianchi (10 kg. = 22lb. total) or Capo #1 (about 1 kg. heavier), but I do seem to be somewhat slower on the UO-8, which weighs another couple of kg. and whose tire pressure I restrict to 80 PSI because of the smooth-walled rims. When my commute included a 12% climb, I definitely did notice the 4 kg. = 9 lb. difference between a Schwinn Varsity and a Peugeot UO-8, both of which I had converted to aluminum rims.

This is true, and if you lose 4 lbs off the bike, now you're 8 lbs ahead.

Exactly!! I also agree that wheelsets make a huge, huge difference. I train on my 1800 gram wheelset with "heavier" tires but do most of my timed rides on a 1400 gram wheelset with lighter weight tires. I notice the same "less effort" type of feeling when changing to the lighter wheelsets but using the same frames.

I'm not a weight weenie but I'll take my 16 lb bike over a 20-22 lb bike any day!! I've used both types on 100 mile rides in the mountains and for some reason I'm always a lot faster on the 16 lb bike........

The weight taken off the bike makes more of an impact because it also makes you wallet SO much lighter. :D

To be honest- All my frames are aluminium- The MTB with short travel stiff front Suspension. The Tandem with Full Downhill spec front suspension and the Rolls of Suspension seat posts- The "Thud Buster"- The Giant OCR3 that I did have a problem on road buzz with till I changed the wheels- and the Boreas.

The Boreas has Ultegra wheels an 23mm tyres at 140psi and no road buzz. I put this down the frame having no flex in it and the Forks and seat post being C.F. But then the Giant has C.F.Forks and that was a problem- But there is C.F. parts that are made of C.F. to sell and then there are C.F.Parts designed to work. The boreas forks work.


http://www.boreas-bikes.dk/pages/ignis.html


Now as to that lightness- I have noticed that The Boreas not only feels better to ride- It gives a better ride-Accelerates faster and Downhill is very stable. I am not a speed merchant so do not hammer it in many places- but a 60 mile ride on the Boreas is done with ease- Different bike in a different class but the Giant leaves me Tired after the same ride.

Too true.

It was estimated a few years ago that the average weight of a Rigid Mountain bike was 23lbs- To get down to a 20lbs bike would cost $200 per lb. Then you start really paying. And that was when a $1,500 bike was the top one.

Yes, wallet lightness. I was looking at a couple of high end bents, two identical bikes from the same manufacturer, same top components, tires, wheelsets, etc. The only difference was that one was aluminum and one titanium. Price difference exactly $1000!
I'd have to have a lot of convincing for a grand a pound! Ha!

[QUOTE=Deanster04;5173902]215 + 23 = 238 lbs. 4lbs difference is a mere 1.6% difference. Lose the weight off your body and you will be ahead.

I'm not convinced that it's true. The leg muscles have to exert a force proportional to the 22.5 lbs weight of the bike to make it go forward. If the bike is 4 lbs lighter (18% less weight) I would expect the muscles to require 18% less effort to make it move, not 1.6%.

[QUOTE=Aldo;5180197]Are you not on the bike when you ride it? How do you do that?

Try a madone, I have seen it written that ~6lbs body is 1 lb on a bike. I believe it. Don't mean you have to. But thats why I don't ever use a Camelbak. And have planned water stops on a long ride.

Bottom line though, upgrading wheels to make up for frame weight increase doesn't make much sense. Just my 1PHP (1 philippine peso = $0.02 USD)

I have often seen the fastest and strongest rider in the group was the person on the heaviest bike. Weight means something when you are accelerating or going up hills but otherwise, it is not that big a deal.

I have seen plenty of people who put down big bucks on really high end bikes to discover that the high end bike did not make them any faster. Shoot, I had a friend who got a pricier bike and I swear he slowed down (we used to discuss this when he was not around so other people noticed it too).

Now I have noticed geometry changes affect things. I went from a touring bike to a rigid short wheel base racing bike and it made a noticeable difference on cornering and seemingly acceleration. It might have just handled better which meant I was going through corners faster. But if you are on a bike whose handling you really like, you will probably see a performance advantage.

A friend of mine looked at a ultra high end bike that was leaning against a wall and sniffed saying "Without a rider, that is the fastest that bike is going today".

[QUOTE=BluesDawg;5180694]BlueDawg, I do that late at night when I have a fraction of the brain left to work with :o

On the wheels- An upgrade on wheels is not only to a lighter wheel- It should also be to a better quality wheel. On the Giant OM wheels- I have a hill that I go down. It has a curve in the middle of it. On the OM wheels- I could feel the bike wanting to go to the outside of the curve from about 30mph.At 35Mph I was leaning more and Braking. Looked at the wheels and they were flexing sideways and I know the spokes were properly tensioned but that Deflexion of the wheel was noticable to my eye. Got a set af "Training wheels. Still 36 spokes-105 hubs and Mavic CXP33 rims AND hand built by an expert. First time down the hill and waiting for the wheels to flex. They didn't. Still cut the speed to less than 40 with the brakes and I was happy. Then on the Boreas and this has lighweight- fewer spoke Ultegras. It was not even caution to the wind- Just let the bike go- The curve was just a curve and the only time I got worried was when a Policecar pulled along side me and The passenger reminded me it was a 30mph limit.

Now on the lighter bike- It is a bit unfair as the Boreas is a different geometry but it is a 15lbs bike. That thing goes up hills and the only thing that is stopping me from Trying the Steeper hills is a lack of confidenece in my ability. I weigh the same- Same toolkit, pump and water bottle but On the 10%'s I am faster than on the Giant. In fact-Except top speed- which I do not concern myself with- The light bike is 2mph average faster. The hills take less time to get up(But are still hard) and I can go further because I am not putting as much effort into riding to get the same effect.

Now as to whether a rider needs to spend $200 on a set of wheels or a lot more on a lighter bike is up to the quality of the rider. For many- a standard wheelset or cheaper bike is completly adequate and no amount of "Upgrades" would improve that rider on a bike. It is only when you have spent the money that you find out that the Upgrade was worth it or a waste of money. Only thing is- I am glad that I was able to spend the money to get a significent improvement in my riding.