Learning to spin clipless pedals?
 

I recently added clipless Crank Bros Candy C Atb Pedals to my road bike.
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...pless%20Pedals
I didn't get the hoped-for big feeling of more power and speed with these things. I wonder if anyone can give me some hints as to how to 'learn' to use them to better advantage? Should I be feeling the 'up-pull' with my toes or heels more? Should my pelvis tilt a little a each pump of the pedals to get the up-pull? Is everyone like me, have to LEARN to use the blamed things? If so, how long should it take to start getting some benefit from the pedals?

I rode previous toe-cage pedals (without their straps) all summer. The left cage broke off and I rode without it. But I think I got used to pulling a little up with my right pedal over the summer and I find it easier to do this now with the clipless too. This is what makes me think I have to LEARN to use these things.

Picture each of your feet going around in a circle. Push forward at the top, down in front, back at the bottom and up at the rear of the stroke. Now practice doing it with some power. In the begining it will hurt some muscles that you haven't been using. Its likely that you will not do this all the time but when you feel your pace lagging, remembering to circle the feet will result in a noticable pick up of speed.

This is potentially more information that you want, so feel free to take whatever you want from it and ignore the rest.

Back in my training/racing days, we used to divide the pedal stroke into four segments: push down, pull back, lift up and kick over. The push down part is something we are all familiar with. The pull back happens at the bottom of the down stroke, and the feeling you should get is the same as when you scrape mud off the bottom of your shoe. Pulling up is pretty self-explanatory. Kicking over the top is the mental picture you should have of the fourth segment. We did laps on level roads where we had to use just one of the segments at a time. Of course, it feels really weird and is nearly impossible to keep going for very long but you are working to develop the muscle memory. Then we did laps where we would spin as fast as we could, trying to incorporate all of those segments. That would smooth out the transitions and help us put it all together. In practice, pulling up is something that isn't done a whole lot although it's talked about a whole lot. Studies have been done on pro riders that demonstrate that there is still some downward force on the pedal during the "upstroke" in typical riding circumstances (like when you aren't specifically concentrating on pulling up). When your cadence is slow (hard climbing out of the saddle or starting your sprint, for example) you can indeed pull up. However, it is of use to learn the pulling up part of the pedal stroke because you can still reduce the amount that you push down and thereby improve your efficiency. The crowning glory of all of this training was when we had to do laps with one pedal removed. That's the test of whether you are using the full pedal stroke.

Interestingly, 12 years after I last rode my bicycle, this muscle memory was still near the surface and it came back pretty quickly when I started riding again this summer. I guess it pays to train. I think that the efficiency of my pedal stroke helped me keep up with my kids, who are clearly in better physical condition overall.

-soma5

soma5: Everything you have stated here agrees with what I have experienced & Max as always nails it. One other tip, try the one pedal thing on your trainer. We should all do this from time to time to make us feel we are getting more out of the indoor hours.

Your hips should not rock when pedalling - if they are, your saddle is too high. If you're making them do it, stop.

The easiest way to improve your pedalling is to imagine you're trying to scrape something off the bottom of your shoe ie, a pull back at the bottom of the stroke. The rest comes naturally.

Don't be fussed about trying to pull up on the pedals - few people can add any power that way, the most they achieve is to get their foot out of the way of the rising pedal.

Richard

I found above advise interesting and I am sure it is correct. I have not had any formal training and there are few bikers in my area to learn from.
In my training (on a hydraulic resistance trainer), I do about 95-100 RPM to do 17-18 MPH. At that RPM I have trouble doing this what is described above. I will try the one pedal idea.
The other portion of my training is standing up and go in the biggest gear at about 50 RPM and that produces about 18 MPH. That feels like a Stairmaster and there is no circular action.

That is the winning response. The scraping motion was (I think) first described by Greg Lemond (probably from his coach). Ditto on the "pulling up" theory. Several studies have shown that this in an inconsequential part of the pedaling stroke.

This is timely for me too. Regarding the pedal stroke at the 6 o'clock position, is there any advantage to pointing the toes down and powering through the bottom vs keeping the foot flat and "scraping mud off?"

I have read/heard a number of cycling commentators speak to this and they seem to agree that it is matter of natural preference. Some riders are toe down and some are flat footed. Greater riders can be seen with either style. I would not force myself do to one or the other.

I think seat placement and relative fore-aft rider postion is a big part of toes up, or toes flat, or toes down, while pedaling. The further forward you sit, the more you probably will want to pedal toes down...at least, that's the way it is for me.

You can add quite a bit of power pulling up when standing. Not so much when seated. I've pulled out of my Keo Classics on climbs. Fortunately, they were steep enough climbs that I wasn't going very fast.

In the normal course of riding, the rider will experience differences in terrain, wind conditions, and even sprinting. Sprinting to me can even mean going from a standing start to a desired speed or even from one speed to a higher speed. All this in a non racing context. This is when the pull up really helps, even to the point that a rider actually wants to favor the pull up over the push down.

The pull up is just another tool to use in riding. I think very few riders would abandon their pull up in these situations just because theorists appear to argue that the pull up is of very little consequence in pedal efficiency.

How many of us have experienced riding in an organized Century or half Century going up say a one mile climb and passing riders who have not mastered the pull up?

I tried this on my standard 50 mile exercise trail. I was able to sprint to a very high cadence (above 100) and was able to see an improvement in speed.
It was hard on my legs and more practice will be needed.

That's because they don't offer a "big feeling of power and speed" They offer a tiny advantage that is mainly relevant to racers and intense riders, but for most of us doesn't make a huge difference. At high cadence the clips hold your feet on the pedals, and in steep, slow, out-of-saddle climbs they might help you pull up. They may also give you the smugness of mastering a new skill and perhaps a zen-like feeling of one-ness with the bike. However their efficiency in ordinary non-intense riding is negligible. All the talk of exerting power around the full pedal stroke is mostly hype. Most people don't pull up, they just unweight their leg partially on the upstroke, so the clipless pedals don't help there, and normally you have enough foot grip with ordinary platform pedals to push through the top of the stroke and pull through the bottom without being attached.

So have fun with them, but don't expect them to make very much difference unless you're riding all out, or mashing a really steep climb.

Cycling guru Sheldon Brown counsels against deliberately "ankling" where you flex your foot up and down with each stroke. If your foot likes to do it, that's fine according to another expert, Jobst Brandt, but if you are forcing it, stop before you injure yourself.

Thanks for all the good ideas guys. I think I'm naturally prone to 'ankling', but now I'm a bit leery of it. I had a nasty case of what felt like tendonitus in my ankle this spring, and advice here on the forum suggested using real bike shoes instead of sneaks. I bought some mtn bike Shimanos and haven't had the ankle complaint since. I'm still hoping that thru continued usage my 'upstroke' on the clipless pedals will gain a little more power.

Really you just want to unweight the pedal - not really pull up which can lead to an injury. Practice one-legged pedaling to get smooth. Good luck!

... Brad

Like all forms of exercise- If you are doing something new and using new muscles- Take it steady. Now as to the Pedalling in circles. I do a Spinning class and we have a session in which we climb a hill at a sensible pace and with pressure on the wheel. We are made to pedal normally for 30 seconds and then change to 30 seconds only pulling up on the pedals. This helps build up the muscles and over a few sessions the period of pulling up is extended. I only realised that this was having an effect on my riding when I started to pull the foot off the pedals on the up stroke on a ride. I now have the cleat tension up somewhere near the max to stop this happening and my ankle muscles have improved from trying to twist the foot out of what sometimes feels like a vice.

I disagree with the tiny advantage thing-its a lot more than that but until you perfect your pedaling stroke you may not feel a big differance. Once you start to pedal in circles your cadence will go up and then you should feel the improvement you are looking for. I do agree that the pulling up is more of a unloading of the foot much in the same way you lift your foot when you climb stairs but the pulling back and pushing over the top will improve all aspects of your cycling-endurance-speed-power. How much it helps is up to you.

It takes a lifetime to learn to spin properly.

In fact, the learning never ends.

All of us learned to ride by mashing on the pedals.

Primacy of learning.

Old habits die hard, if they ever die at all.

In the absence of a professional fitting, adjust your cleats so they center between the big toe and the index toe, next to the big toe, and under the ball of the foot.

Set your saddle height so, that, at the bottom of your spin, with your heel dropped as far as you can comfortably drop it, you still have a slight bend in your knee.

At the bottom of each stroke, consciously drop your heel and attempt to keep it dropped (you can't, so don't worry about it).

Visualize bringing your rising knee to the handlebar and hitting the handlebar with your knee (you can't, so don't worry about it).

Going uphill, stay in a higher gear a little longer, and stay in the saddle.
Concentrate on dropping your heel and bringing your knee to the handle bar.

When you can remember to try the above a little bit on each ride, start adding a PUSH over the top of your spin.

If you remeber to drop your heel, bring your knee to the bar, and push over the top, after about four months you will go half again as fast on half the energy.