Foldable Two

Double Ditto on the above.

Artmo 

Good question! And I agree that if I wanted to downgrade from the standard of living I had while working I could go and live in a shed somewhere in the boonies, drive a truck, ride a beater bike, never travel anywhere, so I wouldn't NEED much money. If it ever came to it, we could do that, (we both have very lowly family backgrounds) but we would not be happy. However we don't want to to do that, so we NEED the money we've accumulated to live the lifestyle we're accustomed to - and it has nothing to do with keeping up with the Joneses. I've always had a well-paid job, which involved plenty of personal/family sacrifice by my being away from home for much of my 30 years with my last employer. Nevertheless, I planned for the future and now enjoy the fruits of my efforts with friends and family - travel, relaxation, reading, cycling, boating. In fact doing what we like when we like. I've never looked back during 10 years in retirement. It's a great life!

As for kids over 21, some have afflictions which need support which the US does not provide. If we didn't have the income we have, we couldn't help, but since we can, we should, in my opinion.

BluesDawg

Here's a guy with a good retirement plan.
https://www.ajc.com/gatech/content/sp...ract_1127.html

jm01

+1

Most of us are products of the 60's, and, like me, were never motivated by money. The reason why I've seem to accumulated so much is because we spent on what we needed, not what we wanted.

Both my wife and I have worked since graduation, held average jobs, payed off the mortgage ASAP, lived debt free, and didn't travel or party a lot. Our modest cottage was our only extravagance, intended to keep us close to nature, it probably saved us a fortune, as that's where we spend our holidays and weekends.

Also, as a year round bike commuter, I drive twice a week..to the cottage and back.

So, as Cheryl Crow put it so well..

I don't have digital
I don't have diddly squat
It's not having what you want
It's wanting what you've got

SHERYL CROW LYRICS
"Soak Up The Sun"

However, not intending to work when retired (but staying active), it's important not to outlive our money. I've seen this happen to too many people, and it's sad to see them living in poverty in their final years. In most cases, inflation wiped out the value of their savings...bad investments were responsible as well.

Having put my daughter through university, buying her her first car and her first house, and her road and FS bikes..and too much more, I'm now planning on living off her inheritance.

cranky old dude

Factoring in my NEW health care retirement costs, prescriptions, along with my home owner's
insurance on my modest house (70K), auto insurance, utilities, gasoline and food....
I'm screwed. Single income (approx. 50K), three in college, wife unable to
work make it impossible to save, we just keep sinking farther and farther.
We've canceled all the non-esentials...newspaper, cable, phone..we don't go
out, at all. This isn't through poor planning. My place of employment has curtailed
wage increases and cost of living increases for Production for the past seven years,
my wife got sick, and inflation is running amuck. We had to withdraw from 401K
program to pay for food. I can't be alone in this plight. If I'm in this position with
50K /yr coming in (which I admit isn't a lot, but it's better than many get), then what
will become of us all? Gotta keep my health, can't stop working, must earn money.
I'm gone, outa this thread before I turn my bike into the front a truck.

solveg

I think that's what I find unbelievable. $50k is very respectable wage. Take out state, federal, and property taxes. Take out health, auto and home insurance. It's impossible for a family to get by with a single wage earner nowadays.

I'm hoping that with all the huge mcmansions going into foreclosure, people will start forming small communes again, like they did in the 60's and 70's. Most of these homes are easily big enough for 2 families. I think it would be good for our society in general, especially if it's extended family who do this. There could be all kinds of benefits from this.

Big Paulie

+1

I had essentially the same thought just a few days ago.

Artmo 

That's sad state of affairs and you have my sympathy, although I am sure you are not alone in such a predicament.

You know, a lot has been written and spoken in the US about how awful socialized medicine and socialism (not communism) are in general, but they have their good points, especially in retirement. For example, in the UK, if you are over 60, prescriptions are free, and medical/hospital treatment is always free. Admittedly, if you need some kind of joint replacement you might have to wait, but if the ailment is life-threatening it's taken care of immediately. If you can afford it, you can also have private insurance which will get you faster, not better, attention for joints etc (everyone is covered by the National Health system). Taxes are higher, but in my view, in the long run it's worth it. Some might say, "why should I pay more taxes to support Joe Blow who is struggling?" To me that's the essence of a civilized society and especially one which makes so much of Christian values.

In the UK, if you become infirm, can't take care of yourself and have few if any assets, the state will put you into a very nice nursing home to be taken care of for the rest of your days.

People in the US are brainwashed into thinking that this is shangri-la and for the "haves" it is, but for the "have nots" it is a very uncaring society. I don't buy into the premise that everyone has the same opportunities to succeed here; they don't for a variety of reasons, such as intellect, illness, disability, social background, family finances, location, etc, so there needs to be some kind of net to catch and help the less fortunate. Of course there are those who would abuse the system, but they would be in a minority

To not have cost of living pay increase is almost unheard of in western Europe and to be summarily fired for no other reason than not liking the color of your tie (right to work states) is against the law.

Vacation entitlement in the US is Victorian, except in some of the bigger multinationals - one week after one year of service!! That's unbelievable to Europeans where three weeks are dictated by law in the UK , for example. And, no, I don't think the American worker is any more productive. He works longer hours, but is no more efficient. He is screwed by his employer and his benefits, if any, are pathetic and almost always to the advantage of the employer/stockholders. I've lived and worked in three European countries, by the way.

Fortunately for us, I am one of the "haves," as I worked for a very enlightened US multinational when it came to employee care and benefits.

I've rambled long enough and it probably doesn't help you at all. Good luck anyway.

jm01

That's both shocking and astounding...that America, the richest country on earth, has allowed situations like this to happen...

...if you were in Canada, you would have free health coverage, most employers offer very inexpensive (<$50.00/month) group family plans for prescriptions, dental, life insurance, etc (inexpensive because all medical is covered under OHIP), you would have inexpensive LTD...and at $50K, pay very little income tax...and university tuition is heavily subsidized by our government.

It looks like Americans have reached a tipping point, where it will take a major electoral upheaval to turn this ship around. Last time it took a revolution.

At our age it's sad to think that our kids will be the first generation that will have a lower standard of living compared to the preceding ones, also a shorter life span is predicted.

What will it take to get the middle class to be heard?

crtreedude 

What will it take for the middle class to be heard? Change the system to where the middle class actually matter. Since elections are now won by money, the middle class is lost in the selling of votes to special interest. The middleclass, by definition, doesn't have any special interest.

Except perhaps eating.

Artmo 

<< Since elections are now won by money, the middle class is lost in the selling of votes to special interest>>

And once they, whoever they are, are elected, they are still controlled by big business, special interests etc and this is democracy?

bigjim1

Doesn't sound that bad to me. No stress, junk mail, bills, threatening letters, taxes.... Especially if you have the supporting partner and good friends on hand. Anyway it does not have to be that simple. Just get rid of some of the crap. Travelling apart from on a bike or foot is becoming a nightmare. Here in the UK the roads are continually blocked. Price of fuel is crazy and don't get me started on airport queues, plane seats, etc. And trains? Hah!

Jim

Terrierman

I'd like to see something done about health care. I surely do not trust our current federal government to accomplish that mission. I also am at a loss as to how it might be accomplished any other way.

I too am amazed by the new homes being built. Most are amazingly large and way too costly for me to justify. I spend a lot of time wondering how the younger couples that are buying them and the two new Mercedes SUVs in the driveway would be able to deal with any sort of hiccup in their lives. Actually, I know how, and it is not pretty.

Lovey and I have a very comfortable life style, but we make it a point to live well beneath our means. The comment that future generations may have a lower standard of living than we enjoy is a bit distressing on the face of it, but not so much when you think of the rampant consumerism that has been the hallmark of the late 90's and the 00's. A return to more reasonable expectations along with a sense of more personal responsibility and less "well, somebody will take care of me, so why worry" would not be a bad thing. And it seems there is a bit of movement in that direction on some fronts. I hope it comes soon enough to keep America sound.

solveg

Sounds good to me, too, with the caveat that I have the choice* to live simply. It can be fun when it's not a survival issue, but the fun would fast be sucked out if I felt the lack of money was about to do me harm.

That's where it gets tough, at what stage of life do we say "no" to allow more "yes's" at another stage. Looking back, I know I've said "no" to myself too much in my 30's and early 40's, when I had the body and stamina to do exciting and fun things. The possibility of winter camping is pretty much done with at my age.

But I guess I won't be able to tell how good my decisions were until I'm on my deathbed. Only then will I know if the delay of immediate gratification paid off.

jm01

There's been a radical shift in the economy of the United States which at one time was the economic powerhouse of the world, focused on wealth creation through manufacturing , resources, and technology...taking things of little worth and creating products of enhanced value.

Corporate America saw the benefit to their bottom line in off-shore sourcing of their products and moved their production and jobs to the lowest cost producers. Started with the steel industry (rust belt), then consumer goods, electronics, textiles, computers, software development...even call centres are now off-shore...it's now reached the point that only service sector and hospitality jobs are available for which Americans have to compete with those that will work for less than minimum wage.

I've heard it best described as "an addiction based" economy, based on the belief that the American consumer will continue to spend.

A good analogy is that of a village where the population earns their living by washing each other's laundry...the same dollar makes the rounds with a few pennies being sent to another village to buy soap with every load. Eventually, the other village will have it all.

The curious thing is that the American government let this happen...it knew the long term ramifications of this strategy and did nothing to stop it. As money for American corporate capital spending dries up, what's left of their assets will have to be sold off to those that have the money...all foreign companies that will buy America at sacrifice prices...didn't Citibank just get a $8 billion bailout from Dubai, the Chinese bought most of IBM?...its going to be a long list.

I'm glad that I'm now retired with great benefits in a country that still provides for us...it won't be fun for our grand kids

BluesDawg

just sayin'

Terrierman

That is about as succint as it gets. The problem is seemingly complex but in reality is very simple at the root. Global economy my dying a55.

jm01

BluesDawg

I don't necessarilly agree or disagree with the points being made. I just don't come here to the 50+ bike forums to read about politics and economics. Retirement planning for wealthy people was far enough off topic. Now it is getting absurd.

Terrierman

^^ May I suggest that you might stop reading the thread rather than trying to shut off conversations that others find interesting and very much on topic for being 50+.

BluesDawg

Yes, but it will not change my reaction. I found the original topic interesting. But as topics drift farther and farther from any relation to bicycling, I don't see any reason to have them on a board for 50+ bicyling discussions.

You may, however, ignore my comments to your heart's content.

Terrierman

^^ Permission granted to ignore my suggestions as well.

Artmo 

Yep, I know what you mean about the UK. I'm originally from there and get back every year and love it, but I'm not sure I'd want to stay mainly because of the weather, traffic and high cost of living. As for the medical sytem, I can't fault it based on a couple of experiences I've had in the past couple of years. Once in the A&E (Emergency) at no cost and once at a GP's office at no charge. Prescriptions were also no charge.

Artmo 

Well said. It's apparent that a number of people find the topic of interest and it is related to the original question on retirement.

Tom Bombadil

The topics of biking and retirement are not completely unrelated to me. If I could retire, I would certainly ride my bikes more. And the prospect of riding more makes retirement more compelling. This gets me back to finances ...