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Probably off-topic, but you're all wise

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Probably off-topic, but you're all wise

Old 11-27-07, 09:51 AM
  #1  
wobblyoldgeezer
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Probably off-topic, but you're all wise

I've just been offered a new job. Still Middle East, twice the money. I don't get any retirement plan as a Brit ex-pat, so double the money means half the time before I can exit to do what I really want, which is move to Santa Cruz CA. and ride among the Coastal mountains. So far, so simple.

But my work team here likes me, I feel a loyalty to them, and I really really like the cycling friends here. And change is unsettling, and I really have a good gig here, professionally and socially. I don't have to prove anything any more as a newcomer.

Hmmm. Any career councillors here?
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Old 11-27-07, 10:04 AM
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Fastest way to retirement without hanging it out in a dangerous situation.......

Nice as your piece of the middle east seams, there are outside forces that make viewing the future next to impossible.
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Old 11-27-07, 10:11 AM
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No easy way out, I think you have to decide this one for yourself. That is my word of "wisdom".
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Old 11-27-07, 10:14 AM
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Take the money.
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Old 11-27-07, 10:23 AM
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Having good people to work with is a rare situation...at least in my experience. And, if twice the money is offered for the new job, there must be a reason. And it isn't a good one!

The older I get, the less future oriented I get. My vote is live in the moment and stick with what's working.

Just my personal perspective and values.

Last edited by Big Paulie; 11-27-07 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 11-27-07, 10:44 AM
  #6  
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How long would the stint be and would you be able to retire afterwards? Trying to get a feel if we're talking a couple years or 10-15 years..........

And would agree that you can't buy relationships........but you can try me if you'd like!!
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Old 11-27-07, 10:49 AM
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Wise...here How long is twice as long? If getting twice the money means you work for two years versus four years in a riskier environment (assume middle east is but that may not be true for you) then I would take the money thinking I could endure most anything for a couple of years. If it is 5 years versus 10 years, then that is a different scenario also. No one can predict where us 50+ will be in 10 years. IMO, both scenarios favor the new job BUT only you know yourself and what makes you happy. For you working 10 more years before retirement no matter what the outcome at your current job may be the best choice.

I think the main point is that you do the retirement math correctly i.e. how much money you need and assess your capability to work in new situations. If you can work for two to three more years in the new job and retire then go for the new job. My international business experience in emerging markets and the middle east is that the future is unpredictable and it is better to think in short time horizons.

Edit: We do not know your current situation. You may be living the life of pleasure with a large harem making oodles of money. In that case, forget Santa Cruz and stay there for 20 years in your current job.

Last edited by Hermes; 11-27-07 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 11-27-07, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Wise...here How long is twice as long? If getting twice the money means you work for two years versus four years in a riskier environment (assume middle east is but that may not be true for you) then I would take the money thinking I could endure most anything for a couple of years. If it is 5 years versus 10 years, then that is a different scenario also. No one can predict where us 50+ will be in 10 years. IMO, both scenarios favor the new job BUT only you know yourself and what makes you happy. For you working 10 more years before retirement no matter what the outcome at your current job may be the best choice.

I think the main point is that you do the retirement math correctly i.e. how much money you need and assess your capability to work in new situations. If you can work for two to three more years in the new job and retire then go for the new job. My international business experience in emerging markets and the middle east is that the future is unpredictable and it is better to think in short time horizons.
That's really what I meant when I said take the money.
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Old 11-27-07, 11:14 AM
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Keep 'em coming - I like having the views of my virtual friends.

Possible new - Head of Training and Development for Qatar Gas. Present - Acting Manager of Training and Development for Bahrain Petroleum. 'Acting' means I'm doing 3 jobs whilst being paid for the most junior of them

Neither place is particularly risky in terms of political threat - I wouldn't even consider Saudi, Iran or Kuwait, places that I've previously worked and not enjoyed

So far, I think we've got 1 'Stay' 2 'Go', and 1 'sort yourself out'

Of course I'll figure it out for myself - but I really appreciate having this sounding board
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Old 11-27-07, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jppe View Post
And would agree that you can't buy relationships........but you can try me if you'd like!!
Much as I like you --- Naah
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Old 11-27-07, 11:51 AM
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Money is just money. It's the relationships you make that get you up in the morning and get you to work. If it was me I would consider what kinds of people are at the new place.
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Old 11-27-07, 11:57 AM
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Will you keep those relationships after you retire........?
Will you form new relationships at the new job...........?

If both jobs are safe my first impressions is to get on to retirement as quickly as possible. We are all too old to be wasting time...........
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Old 11-27-07, 12:32 PM
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Look at it this way, any place in the middle east is unsafe, get out as quick as you can.
And when you retire use this as you motto "FTA".
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Old 11-27-07, 12:54 PM
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I am not happy in the job I am in so if I was offered a better position that I would enjoy- with the same money- I would go. To be offered more-I would have to think a bit. Is the new job secure- Can I do the job- What are my superiors going to expect me to do and What are the superiors like.

If the new job looks enticing on all my questions then it is a No-Brainer. Take the money and retire earlier.
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Old 11-27-07, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by wobblyoldgeezer View Post
I've just been offered a new job. Still Middle East, twice the money. I don't get any retirement plan as a Brit ex-pat, so double the money means half the time before I can exit to do what I really want, which is move to Santa Cruz CA. and ride among the Coastal mountains. So far, so simple.

But my work team here likes me, I feel a loyalty to them, and I really really like the cycling friends here. And change is unsettling, and I really have a good gig here, professionally and socially. I don't have to prove anything any more as a newcomer.

Hmmm. Any career councillors here?
As a headhunter this is a situation that I've encountered too many times...the one thing that I've learned is that money is the wrong reason to run to a new job..a situation mitigated in your case by the ulterior motive, relocation to Santa Cruz.

So, I've always advised my candidates to draw a line down the page and list the pros and cons of each option, and to follow your heart. It's critical, however, to allow your family to participate in making the decision and to listen to them and take their feelings into consideration.

Like my mom always says,"you'll never know the meaning of true misery until you have a job you hate"
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Old 11-27-07, 01:52 PM
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The other job is a solid offer, right? What's wrong with having a heart-to-heart with your current employer. Tell 'em, "I want to stay, but double the salary is a huge difference." Maybe they'll decide that it's time to remove the 'interim' from your current job title and give you a raise to make staying easier.
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Old 11-27-07, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by BlazingPedals View Post
The other job is a solid offer, right? What's wrong with having a heart-to-heart with your current employer. Tell 'em, "I want to stay, but double the salary is a huge difference." Maybe they'll decide that it's time to remove the 'interim' from your current job title and give you a raise to make staying easier.
This is the approach that I would take.
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Old 11-27-07, 03:01 PM
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I know 4 guys that went over there and they had to stay at least 18 months, one finished his contract.
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Old 11-27-07, 03:13 PM
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I took a ExPat assignment in Cebu Philippines , 5 months ago, best career decision I ever made. I'm headed back thursday, been in US since Nov 1st. BTW- they would not negoiate on Money, a 15 % 'kicker' but they provide house (with 24 hr guards), supply a SUV w/personal driver/body guard (my own SAG Wagon) and I insisted on 4 trips back/forth a year IN WRITING and 2 round trips for the wife (she teaches at local university so she is with me half the time.)

But I wanted to do this job, else I'd of retired. I didn't think i could ride a bike, but I put 500 miles on them (took 3) from Jul 7th to end of Oct.

I'm 60 and will be 62 when I'm finished - big decision then, I don't even think of retirement.
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Old 11-27-07, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by BlazingPedals View Post
The other job is a solid offer, right? What's wrong with having a heart-to-heart with your current employer. Tell 'em, "I want to stay, but double the salary is a huge difference." Maybe they'll decide that it's time to remove the 'interim' from your current job title and give you a raise to make staying easier.
not necessarily the best decision...many employers see this as an ultimatum and, if they're happy with your work, will counteroffer and keep you on board just long enough to find a replacement. You see, you've broken that bond of trust if you do this, and from then on, every time you say you have a doctor's appointment, they'll think that you're going to a job interview.
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Old 11-27-07, 04:00 PM
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Stay.
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Old 11-27-07, 04:10 PM
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If you take the higher-paying job and find you don't like it, have you closed off all possibility of returning to you old job?

-soma5
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Old 11-27-07, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Baron View Post
I took a ExPat assignment in Cebu Philippines , 5 months ago, best career decision I ever made. I'm headed back thursday, been in US since Nov 1st. BTW- they would not negoiate on Money, a 15 % 'kicker' but they provide house (with 24 hr guards), supply a SUV w/personal driver/body guard (my own SAG Wagon) and I insisted on 4 trips back/forth a year IN WRITING and 2 round trips for the wife (she teaches at local university so she is with me half the time.)

But I wanted to do this job, else I'd of retired. I didn't think i could ride a bike, but I put 500 miles on them (took 3) from Jul 7th to end of Oct.

I'm 60 and will be 62 when I'm finished - big decision then, I don't even think of retirement.
I turned down jobs in the US that I did`t have to have a body guard around me 24/7.I may step on some toes but New Orleans, East St Louis, and Detroit come to mind for the top three.The guy that took the job in Detroit that I turned down got his Auto and every thing he had with him stolen the first night there.
So money is not every thing.I retired at 55 with maybe a little less than if I had put up with some of the other jobs all with in one company.But had piece of mind while I worked also.

Just my two cent`s Wink
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Old 11-27-07, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jm01 View Post
not necessarily the best decision...many employers see this as an ultimatum and, if they're happy with your work, will counteroffer and keep you on board just long enough to find a replacement. You see, you've broken that bond of trust if you do this, and from then on, every time you say you have a doctor's appointment, they'll think that you're going to a job interview.
As a manager who does a lot of hiring and firing, this is spot on. When I hear "give me a raise or I will (fill in the blank)," I ALWAYS choose fill in the blank. It is one of the very best ways to find the door.
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Old 11-27-07, 04:58 PM
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My advice as a former resident (for 18 years) of Santa Cruz county is take the route that will get you there the fastest. You said this new opportunity is also in the Mid-East at twice the salary. There are many places in the ME where I wouldn't go for 10X the salary; on the other hand, my brother-in-law with Blackwater will go anywhere and do any job for the right price.
The issues to weigh above $$$ are (IMHO): personal security, job security, job satisfaction, family considerations. Personally I've always gone for the money in my career and that may not have been the wisest financial choice on a few occasions, but I've always liked a new challenge and I generally make friends of new collegues. Now 56 years old, with a wife of 20+ years and 2 older teenagers I weigh the family considerations more seriously. Assuming you make a good salary now, 2X (if the new location is safe) sounds like a no-brainer.
There are too many excellent rides in the Santa Cruz mountains to NOT make getting there soonest a priority. Where do you want to live? I was in Scotts Valley.
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