Discouraging LBS experience
 

OK, I know it's a business for them, but I always want to enjoy the vehicle purchase experience. I also tend to go into a dealership knowing exactly what I want, and I'm willing to wait for it if necessary (I usually factory-order my cars exactly as I want them, even if I have to wait a few months for them to ship from another continent!).

So yesterday I went into an LBS that I've had a favorable impression of, wanting to talk about a particular bike model -- possibly setting up a test ride -- and made the mistake of saying that I might not actually buy one until next year, but wanted to see if it would be worth waiting for. You'd think that, having been in existence about 90 years (no typo!), this shop would know the value of building long-term relationships, but this guy obviously was determined that he was going to get me to buy something today, which wasn't about to happen.

So instead of discussing the bike I was interested in or seeing if he had an equivalent model for me to ride, he started trying to sell me various old stock that they are trying to move off their floor. When I pointed out that the first one was not only ugly but had a double crank, he questioned why I wanted a triple. Another bike had a "sold" tag on it, but he said that no money had been deposited on it yet, so I could have it that day if I wanted it.

I'm not argumentative, so I tried to deflect him by saying I'd have to start "saving my pennies," and that launched him into talking about how I could get another credit card or look into financing. The whole experience was rather disappointing, especially since I really wanted to like this shop. They definitely are the most road-oriented shop in the area, with the most selection and fitting expertise. But at this point I've pretty much talked myself out of even considering a new bike for a while.

It's also really annoying when a salesperson starts out a sentence with "What you really want is this..." No, if that's what I really wanted, I'd have said so!

You Sir, are obviously misinformed regarding your preferences. I just love it myself when someone I have never met tries to tell me what I want. Now asking if you know this or that about something that you have asked after, and maybe offering an opinion about an alternative - that is welcome input. But to tell someone what they really want is... bad salesmanship. Maybe try another salesperson on another day?

This is a superb example of pushing short-term income at the expense of long-term fiscal sustainability. I suspect sales are down or the manager or distributor is offering some sort of "spiff" on certain models. I don't blame you for being turned off by the experience.

Having said that, I also note that buying leftovers during a model change/update is often a good consumer strategy -- that's how the first owner got my Bianchi, and that's how I bought the 2001 VW Passat wagon, right before the 2001.5 facelift. (I can live without the vastly improved cupholders and the added chrome bling.)

I can apprecaite your sense of disappointment. I would encourage you, however, not to judge the entire shop/store based on this singular experience. As you know from other areas of your life, building a relationship means working through rough times as well as enjoying all the smooth ones. There are many reasons that could easily explain the interaction you had with this person. Yet, if the shop has been around for 90 years, they must be doing something right.

If it were me, I'd make a return trip, and attempt to talk with the same person again when the shop is not busy. I'd let him know that I was looking for a shop with which I could build a long term relationship, and was just a bit put off by our last encounter. I'd probably say something like, "I just wanted to make sure that I followed up with you, so that when we interact again you'll have a better idea of who I am as a potential long term customer."

If this bike shop has been around for 90 years, they must be doing something right.

I wouldn't bother talking to that sales rep again until I spoke with the owner of the shop.

If I owned a business, I would want feed back, good or bad, as to how my sales reps were doing on the floor.

I think a casual conversation w/ the owner would accomplish this plus it may establish a long term relationship you are seeking.

One of the first rules in sales is listen to what the customer wants. Obviously, this sales rep was absent from his Sales 101 class that day.

Good luck,

BR

And that could be going for the fast buck and doing whatever it takes to close a sale the first time a customer walks in the door.

There's an LBS nearby that has a similar history and a similar selling strategy. I bought my first bike there only to discover a couple of months later that it wasn't a matter of "getting used to it", it was too small. They got $380 out of me for the bike, and another hundred or two in accessories.

At the next-nearest shop, they've been in business less than five years. I didn't buy a thing the first few times I visited. Yet, they remembered me from one visit to the next. I went on a few of their shop rides and eventually switched there for service.

Eighteen months after I walked in the door the first time, I rode out on a $1,700 bike and about a grand in accessories. Interestingly, the bike I bought had been there on the floor the whole time.

My LBS has a more subtle tactic.
I went in looking for a nice new road bike to replace my 35-year-old steel frame Apollo. I was looking at some of the medium to low end Treks and the sales person said they could order whatever if they didn't have it in stock.
On the other side of the rack were the Madones and I remarked that they looked like nice bikes. He merely took down a 5.2 and let me run my hands over it. No sales pitch was necessary. I was hooked and fiscal responsibility was the first casualty.
So if your LBS was smart they would recognize you as a serious cyclist and realize that they just have to dangle pretty, shiney, ooh-la-la stuff in front of you and you will buy.
Or maybe that's just me.

Just to give you another persceptive since I have friends that own bike shops... most shops, not attached to the big chains, barely get by, few are very sucessful and profit margins are slim. Most shops are operated by owners and a few trusted employees. Those few have to manage customers, merchandise, inventory, sales and repairs. To say the least, the employees are generally very busy.

So in comes someone who just wants to chat. They are not a regular customer, have not purchased anything in the store but are just looking for free advice and information. They make the busy employee spend 10 - 30 minutes with them answering questions, going through catelogs, even setting up test rides and then find out "oh I'm not buying, just looking, trying to get information..." and 9 times out of 10 the person then goes and buys a bike someplace else after then figure out what they want and find the cheapest price. By the way understand how most shops operate. The owner has to put out money for the bikes and merchandise it has on the floor. They don't and can't think in terms of future sales and ordering product the following year. In order for the shops to stay in business it must sell the product it has. In addition, if it's a target store for say Trek, it has to sell what it has before Trek will give it more product.

Not saying this was your intent or experience but just saying this happens all too often. I have this philopsopy... if just looking and trying to get information... I use the internet and forums such as this. If I am seriously looking then I will spend time in a bike shop, trying not to waste the clerk's time if I have no interest. I believe taking up someone's time to get free advice with no intent in buying is wrong.

Now there are shops I've have invested enough money in here I feel I have earned the privilege to some free advice. What I suggest is start patronizing a shop, buy some things and then ask for that free advice.

BTW the best way to get information about bikes is join a cycling club. Speak with the members about their bikes and they might even let you test ride. That's how I decided on all mine.

My LBS owner asked me if I wanted to buy his store. I told him I was crazy but not nuts. This is one tough biz to be in. Constantly changing tastes, everyone wants the price they can get on the net but you better have it in stockin every size made, the list is endless.

I prefer dealing with the owner at the LBS I go to. He's roughly my age, an experienced cyclist, and he's been in the business for years.

Good points, and in a way this is what I was doing. But I really need to ride a carbon-frame bike to see if I like it enough over my current aluminum bike to be worth the $2K+ that it will cost me. And in any case, this shop carries Cannondale but not Specialized. I'm interested in models from both those mfrs, so even if I were ready to buy on a given day, I would still not commit to anything on the spot.

I have had good experiences on my visits to the shop, and they were very accomodating last fall in holding a particular model & size of bibs just on my say-so over the phone, so I am sure that I'll return there in the future for some of my needs.

I concur -- you are contemplating a major investment, and you simply want to make sure you are going to derive $2K of value from the contemplated purchase. (I have trouble believing you will, but that's my own Scots DNA speaking. :) )

My LBS do not have to try and sell me stuff. I just seem to empty my wallet everytime I go in there.

They know what I like and if they have anything that may interest me- They just point me in the direction.

Having bought a road bike in june 06- I shocked them by buying Boreas in june 07. They were convinced that I was still MTB minded. Then in November 07 they told me they had a bike I ought to look at. A Giant MTB Hardtail. It was not an improvement over my Bianchi and I fooloishly said that If I were to buy another bike- It would be a road bike. No problem- Straight over to the computer and they sorted a frame at the right price- Then looked at the TCR's for complete bike prices and came up with a price that no one in their right mind would refuse. Now all I had to do was tell the wife.

Picked up the 2nd bike in 6 months two weeks later- but I had an early afternoon and popped in to the shop to see if it was in- and they pulled the frame off the shelf- Then the box of bits they had selected. We built it up that afternoon with just a few hundred extra dollars going on the Agreed price as I upgraded on the build.

My LBS definitely know me and my wallet size.

I had a bad experience at my LBS last year and stayed away for
over six months. We've got a few shops in this city so I just went
elsewhere for my parts etc.. Well I needed a Crank Nut tightened
recently and didn't have the right tool. At 4 bucks a gallon, I chose
to return to the offending shop for the repair as it's the closest.

Wouldn't ya know.....they we very busy, very freindly, very
accomodating, and they popped my bike up onto the stand and
fixed it right then and there. Some guys just won't let you stay
mad at them. :(

As a few have already mentioned, timing is everything. Give the shop
another chance some day...you may get different treatment.

Happy Trails

I say give 'em another chance. That jerk might not even be there when you return.

+1
One cannot expect that every employee is a well rounded, intelligent, sensitive and always in top form sales person. If that is what we are aiming for we need to look at robots in place of people.:):)

And as Louis's tag line says.... Nothing goes right when your underwear's tight...


So maybe your sales rep's underwear was too tight that day!:)

" I also tend to go into a dealership knowing exactly what I want, and I'm willing to wait for it "
Your words not mine. Order the bike You Want. Then ride the tires Off of it.
Why bother a LBS?

If it will make you feel any better, the salesperson is probably disappointed too. His objective was to sell you a bicycle, that's what he is being paid to do. Insted he spent his time with a person who was only interested in looking, talking and test riding - not buying.

I would make a point of picking a different sales person assuming the person you were dealing with isn't the owner. It if is the owner, find a new LBS. If not, that person is just some guy that is trying too hard. I agree with the suggestions to do most of your research online, but there comes a time when you need to lay hands on the bikes and put your feet to the peddles. When that time came for me I ended up buying a different model than I had thought I was interested in. Strongarm "buy something today" tactics may be appropriate for someone looking at $300 bikes. People looking at bikes that cost in the thousands should be seen by a store owner as long term revenue streams and treated as such. I know the bike store business is tough, most small businesses are and always have been. Building a customer base sometimes involves an investment in time even before money changes hands.

With all due respect, I disagree completely. Customers who walk into the store are NOT a waste of the clerk's time, even if they don't buy today. If they're treated right, they'll buy tomorrow. If the store feels like they don't have to spend quality time with people who aren't buying today, then they've got a short sighted definition of salesmanship and customer service.

Part of the cost of doing business is dispensing "free advice." Customers don't have to earn the right for free advice. We can ask all we want, and we are still under no obligation to buy a thing. Good LBS's, just like good retailers in any business, treat people well, especially those who are just "asking questions," and they earn our business. We shouldn't have to earn the right to bend their ear.

I have spent most of the past 20 years in retailing in one form or another and spend a fair amount of time visiting bike shops as part of my hobby. As a biker/retailer, I love bike shops -- for the most part, the sector is still dominated by small independents, and they are sometimes as quirky as their neighborhoods.

I have to agree w/DeeGee (gosh, why does it pain me to say that?) -- dispensing "free advice" is part of what comes with the territory. Furthermore, anyone getting into any enthusiast-oriented business (home theater store, bike shop, fly fishing store, quilting supplies, gun shop, boating store, etc.) has GOT to know in advance that they are sometimes going to fill up with lookers on a busy Saturday.

What I've noticed is that the really deft salespeople are able to separate the time-wasters (going to burn up a lot of time asking questions) from the "serious lookers" (not going to buy today but spends a lot of money on the sport) from the "hot prospects" (ready to spend money today). Bike shops who can't figure out how to do that are on their way to going out of business, I suspect.

On the other hand, as an enthusiast, it pays to be a smart shopper. I never judge a bike shop (at least completely) on the first visit. Anyone can have a bad day, or put an untrained sales person on the floor. Also, if I really want to ride something, I call in advance and find a convenient time (for them and me) for a test ride. Finally, if I burn up a lot of sales person time asking questions I *always* buy the item in the shop instead of running home to order it off the web for $5 less.

As for the OP's story -- that kind of hard-sell, "we know what you want" attitude drives me nuts. I went into the a shop recently for some part for my commuter bike and the guy started hard-selling me a set of close-out Zipp wheels from 2007. Huh? I'm going to spend $1500 on wheels for my cast-iron, bajillion-pound touring/commuter bike?

On the other hand, this particular store is a pretty big store, and I've learned that their help ranges from world-class to spotty, depending on who's on the floor. On the positive side, it stocks a huge amount of inventory, in both bikes and parts, and that earns them some business. I go elsewhere, to a smaller "pro" shop when I know I need 100% reliable advice -- I go to the big bike shop when I need to know they have something basic in stock that I need that day.

That's the art, getting enough conversation in for the lookers to come back. If I didn't guide the talkers and pretty soon cut them off I'd be out of business. I know someone who starts "I don't want to take up too much of your time" will start off with Aunt Mary moving out west in 1875.