EastOfMidnight

After crashing my Felt F3 twice - each time with broken bones in my shoulder, I'm ready to concede that the bike with its light weight, aggressive geometry, and very quick steering is too much for me. I like to ride hard and in a pretty aero position, which on this bike means I'm going pretty fast most of the time. Latest wreck was over 29 MPH resulting in a fractured clavicle and ribs. Es muy painful, not to mention that it keeps me of any bike for 6+weeks.
My dilemma is to find something to ride hard that is not so fast. I really like the Dura Ace, etc. components that make good bikes a pleasure to ride. Am thinking of getting a steel frame (which I really like) and swapping out all the goodies from the Felt. An older Colnago Master or something similar could do the trick. Or maybe a Huffy with balloon tires and handle bar streamers...
The irony is, after years of heavy duty kayaking, flying airplanes, racing cars, and teaching high performance driving with nary a scratch, this bicycling thing is doing me in...

Cone Wrench

Not that ironic. None of those activities require the kind of upright balance that things like bicycling and downhill skiing demand. I'm not saying that any klutz could race cars and fly airplanes, but it is a different skill set. Bicycling is a very direct sort of sport. Once you're a skilled kayaker, an eskimo roll is no problem (or so I've observed). In a plane or a car a slight glitch won't necessarily take you into a wall or the ground if you have the required skills. On a bicycle, even the most skilled riders often don't recover from a loss of balance caused by some external force. And if you lose it in a high speed turn, pain will follow. No roll cage. No seat belt.

A slightly heavier road bike is only going to take a couple of mph of your speed. If you ride hard, accidents happen. I hate breaking bones so I don't ride hard. And if you always stop for pie, that will reduce the risk of accident.

Of course, if you posted this over on the Road Bike forum they would just tell you to HTFU.

John E

I strongly endorse either touring or very old racing frames. Look for a longer wheelbase and perhaps 72 degree frame angles. Here is a bike which is stable and extremely comfortable on a long ride. It is not as quick on a sprint or a climb as my (relatively) more modern Bianchi, but it is fast and sporty, and always a pleasure to ride and to look at. If you are not into genuine retro, Rivendell and a few others make new frames in the old tradition. The Bianchi Eros or a good cyclocross bike might be to your liking.

10 Wheels

"My dilemma is to find something to ride hard that is not so fast."

Your Felt is a nice bike. Keep it.
Try this. Adjust your brakes to rub the rims. That makes for hard riding, but not fast.

Fixitman

I ride darn near as fast and as heard on my heavey steel touring bike as I do on my "light fast bike" Changing bikes may not make much of a differance. What have the causes of your crashes been? Unless something failed on the bike it's not very likley the bike was the "cause" of the crash.

Fixitman

..... and worn out brakes & rims

EastOfMidnight

I think my basic problem is the steering is just too quick for me. If I hit a pot hole or bump that lightens the front wheel and I end up with a little wobble and come off sideways (typically to the left) rather than over the bars. I just don't think I'm quick enough and precise enough to recover properly. (I can do it all day long in a car, but I have not mastered it on a bike and I'm running out of bones!)
I love the carbon Felt but it strikes me as a bit jittery and a little nervous for my liking. I think my desire to go fast on it makes me a little reckless, given my slowing reflexes, less than perfect vision, and other 61 yr. old constraints.

cyclinfool

The bike might just be twitchy and combine with what is probably hesitation from you (remember bike & rider work as a system) you probably go into oscillation quickly. Stiffness in the rider can send a bike into wobble.

My steel Simoncini is a bit twitchy, I need to pay attention when I ride it, every time I have crashed it (and it has been the only bike I have crashed in 40 years) it was because I was tired and unattentive. The Simoncini is a soft riding bike. Now my Tarmac which is a CF bike is a fast sprinter - it is rock solid stable. I have not problem doing a rapid decent at over 40mph on it.

Sooo - what I am saying is that it may be the bike/rider combination but I don't think you need to give up performance to get a more stable bike.

cranky old dude

Maybe you can just mount the Felt F3 into a trainer?

Really, if it were me, I would just slow down until I sensed that sweet feeling
where "bike and rider have become one".

stapfam

May be a similar problem to what I had on the TCR. The wheels were the problem. Radial laced with 23 tyres at 140 psi. Changed to a Wheel- laced X 2 and cut the pressure to 120 psi. That made it more stable when I hit manhole covers- ruts in the road- potholes or Pebbles. Can still go fast but a change of wheels and pressure made it ridable.

So what wheels are fitted right now- what tyres and what pressure?

EastOfMidnight

You might have a point. I have Mavic Aksium Race wheels with Vittoria Rubinos @ 120 PSI. If I softened them up, changed my stem to something a little higher that made me sit up a bit, and slowed the hell down...

late

IMHO,
you were right the first time. How tall are you?

EastOfMidnight

I'm 5'11", 190 bs. Bike is a 58 cm. I've had it 14 months and ridden it about 2500 miles.

jay1680

Just bought a new bike after a riding hiatus due to an injured back. Substituted a SOMA ES Smoothie frame for a more aggressive smaller Lightspeed frame. The longer wheelbase and less aggressive geometry of the SOMA frame make the bike much more stable on high speed descents. The Salsa Casserole frame is a similar concept. Switching from 23 mm to 25 mm tires have also added to comfort and stability.

jwbnyc

Surly Pacer frame, add the parts from the Felt.

The geometry is more relaxed but not so relaxed that you feel like you are riding a boat.

Donegal

Try one of three things.

Get a fork with more rake, it will lengthen the wheelbase and ease the twitchiness; I have an Aegis Victory, a stiff mother with a slightly further raked fork. I love it at 50 mph, solid as a rock.

Get a frame with longer top tube. It relieves some of the weight bias on the front wheel, helps the solidity also. I ride the largest frame I can throw a leg over. I am 5-71/2 and riding a Kuota Large with a 55.5 top tube. Technically the frame is too large for me, but it feels great. Eddy Merckx allways rode a larger frame. They keep you stretched out and are more stable.

Check out frames with taller head tubes. That's how I originally found that I like a larger frame. I started buying larger frames based upon the length of the top tube and the height of the head tube.

Lots of folks ride smaller, tight,, twitchy frames. I am not one of them. I am 52 years old and enjoy my comfort while riding longer distances and I feel I get more power stretched out to where I can breathe. I am not happy doubled over with my knees in my chest.

mandovoodoo

I see the Felt is a pretty standard modern bike. With a fairly steep head angle. That and your fit is likely the problem. While I like those bikes in general, they tire me out. I ride a bike with a more old-school Colnagoesque geometry these days. Carves turns rather than diving. Still corners incredibly well, but tracks better over junk.

I'll assume a 56. Felt 73.5 square, 56 cm TT, 410 CS, 43 rake.

I'll assume the bars are far enough forward. That also gives instability, too short a stem, too big a frame. Light front end. 56 stock stem is a 100, which looks like the short end of things. I'd expect a 110 or 120 on a 56 set up for speed. But there you go, that's pretty typical.

I'll assume you're on a 56 with a 100 mm stem, front end just a tad light and pretty twitchy. Think left, moves left NOW. May understeer a little on corners if you're light on the bars.

So. 56 + 10 = 66. Let's presume that fits. Now let's put you on a Specialized Roubaix. High performance with old school geometry. I'm looking for a shallower head angle and a longer stem. 120 mm stem plus 54 TT. Imagine just pulling back the top of the head tube, leaving the bars and tire contact patch where they are. OK, I'll put that rider on a 54 - gives a 54.8 head tube, put a 110 and then a 120 stem on it. See how it feels. Long rake, 72 head. Slower turn in, carves turns nicely. Should be enough weight on the front. For an aggressive ride, drop a size down. Tall head tube might let it work. 53.7 w 120 stem, move the saddle back. Tuck the wheels under a bit. Nimble, but good directional stability.

That's about the ride I like. Takes care of me when I get distracted. Except for bad nuts, I'd be riding 54.8 TT 125 stem, 8.5 cm drop, saddle back a long way. I end up with about 4 cm drop because of my nuts. My frame has that laid back head tube and is otherwise quite nicely modern. Perfect handling for the rough conditions I face, still lets me crank corners as hard as I want.

So I suggest aggressive design causes part of the problem. If the frame is a little bit big, then that really makes things touchy.

will dehne

This thread reminds me of the problem I had a few years ago. I could have written the same as the OP.
I found out later, much later, that the bike frame was a few inches too big for me. A ruthless (going out of business) LBS sold me that expensive road bike. I relied on the advise of fellow bikers. Took years to get that straightened out and lots of money.

Hermes

I suggest a skills course. I am sure they are available locally from one of the bike clubs.

wrk101

Back your pace off a tad recognizing we all heal slower, and reaction time slows with age too.

It worked for me with motorcycles (at least so far).

Try some other bikes out, with the geometry others are suggesting.

As far as the injuries versus other activities, I am not too surprised either. Whether you are on a motorcycle, a bicycle, or a horse, its all about the fall, and the landing onto something hard (like pavement). Your other activities do not have that issue. And two wheels are less stable than four. Lose control, grip, traction or whatever, and something bad will happen

big john

I have seen too many times where new riders who are strong and fit crash their bikes because their ability to go fast exceeds their bike handling skills. This happens sometimes with ex-runners and others who are very athletic. They climb well and hammer the flats but don't have the skills/reactions to avoid crashing. Take your time, learn the skills.

BluesDawg

A bike with more relaxed geometry might be a good idea, but I think the true answer is to develop good handling skills and to ride within your abilities as you develop them. On the other hand, you may have just been unlucky.

BCRider

I seriously doubt you'll enjoy riding slower for long since you obviously enjoy the speed. And I tend to agree that a lot of the racing bikes are a little fast and sensitive on the steering. That sure doesn't help with speed wobbles and crashing. And with the condition of the roads in many areas you're going to hit ridges, raised patches and even potholes now and then if your area is one of those with problem roads.

I think you're sort of onto the right answer by switching bikes. But instead of the Huffy and streamers look for a road or near road bike that is that extra little bit more stable through a less agressive geometry. It may be a road bike of a different maker or it may be a cyclocross frame or it may end up being a touring frame set up for a serious lean forward posture. But I think you can ride the way you want and just find a setup that isn't so sensitive. Something that steers a little slower and will float through life's rough spots rather than setting up a wobble on you.

Mind you don't ask me which that is. On a fast downhill a few months back on my very old school Canondale touring bike that I would have easily said was the epitomy of stability itself at around 40 mph I felt like I was an eyelash twitch away from something biblical happening to the bike and thus to me. I rode it out and nothing wobbled so perhaps it was just due to riding it so fast but I sure knew that it wasn't my track motorcycle under me at that point. I'm used to the motorcycles getting MORE stable with added speed thanks to the heavy wheels and tires acting like flywheels.

stapfam

Mavic Aksiums-Michelin PR2's are what I had. Kept the tyres- cut the pressures by 20 and changed the wheel to a hand built Mavic CXP33 rim- and 36 spokes crossed X 2 laced onto 105 Hubs. I honestly thought that the TCR was not for me untill I made this change a couple of months after I got the bike.

maddmaxx 

Mandovoodoo's assesment pretty much hits the mark and he was assuming a 56. Although you did not indicate any other dimensions like inseam height, a 58 bike for a 5'11" rider appears to be too large. The 56 gives a 0.5 better head tube angle and the 54 even another 0.5. The 54 also changes the fork rake to 45 from 43.

When I first began playing with TT bikes I was very uncomfortable and after some experimentation I determined that for years, the 58cm bike frame that I favored was just plain too large. At 5'11" (6'0" when younger) I now ride a 54 and the performance and handling are noticably better.

There are a lot of riders on large bikes out there but my observations are that most of those are old school road frames. It is not unusual to hear of 6' riders on a 60 or a 61. I can only attribute my opinion on the shorter frame to changes in geometry in the newer styles of bikes.

I'd have to disagree with some posts here. With 2500 miles on the bike you should have struck a bargan with the frame by now as to how the two of you are going to get along together. On the other hand my adaption to the TT bike has been hindered by what appear to be age related reductions in my balance. I like you am a former race car driver and athelete (minor carreer as a professional soccer player) and I have trouble with the thoughts that I may not be as good as I once was. On the TT bike, I have had to take the learning curve very slowly as I find it necessary to substitute some visual and other clues for what my inner ear used to tell me. Even while driving I find that I must be much more precise with my spots and visual clues because some of that instinctive inner sense is absent.