Fixies and knees
 

I usually ride a road bike but have a bug to get a SS/FX. The guy at my LBS told me to stay away from fixies because they are tough on knees. I plan to use it only for flat to rolling terrain with the occasional RR bridge or highway overpass. Do any of you have experience with fixies that can comment on their effect (if any) on knees.

I don't know about fixies, but I do have bad knees. Hills are hell and it is obvious that long term hill riding will lead to more deterioration. Being able to gear down doesn't eliminate the problem. Listen to your LBS guy, and leave the fixies to younger riders. bk

To the OP, how long have you been riding? If for a moderately long period, say five to 10 years, then your knees might be OK. Are you a masher or spinner? The answer to that could determine which gear would suit you -- and a masher is, in all probability, likely to have strong knees.

Irrespective of that, next time you ride your geared bike, check the chainring and rear cog that you spend most time in at the cadence that's most comfortable. That combination is likely to be the one that would suit your fixed/SS ambitions. Experiment a little. Leave it in that gear and see how you go taking off from a standing start; at speed keep pedalling so there is the faintest pressure on the pedals to emulate the cadence at that speed for a fixie.

The thing many people forget about single-geared bikes is that you have every right to get off an walk if the hill becomes too steep to pedal up comfortably.

+1
Knee problems on a fixie start when your trying to get the bike stopped. You can control how much pressure your putting on the pedals when starting and riding but when your trying to slow or stop your weight, forward momentum, and gravity are in control. My single speed bike is fitted with a coaster brake hub and front brake. Instead of putting undue pressure on my knees slowing or stopping as will happen on a fixie a coaster and front brake take that pressure. Never depend on just a coaster brake hub! Always fit a quality front brake system just in case the coaster brake or chain fails. I found a nice NOS Shimano CB-110 coaster brake hub languishing in a dusty box at the LBS. I purchased it for $4 because it was missing the cog, lock ring, lock nut, and wheel nut. I had a busted coaster brake at home with those parts. Here's my new coaster brake hub.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...u/dsc00019.jpg

Here's an example of why you never depend on just a coaster brake.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...WebBrowser.jpg

Appropriate gearing is the best friend your knees can ever have. There is no way a single gear ratio can cover all of your needs efficiently. Gears are good. Fixed gear is OK if that is your thing (it is decidedly not mine) and your knees can handle it. Single speed freewheel is completely pointless and without merit -- sort of the worst of both worlds.

FWIW, I built up a fixed gear bike a couple years ago just for fun. I ride it occasionally and enjoy it when I do, although I generally ride it only on relatively flat terrain which is what I think they are intended for. It has not bothered my knees a bit. I agree that knee problems are aggravated by using only the pedals to slow down or stop while descending hills. This can be remedied by installing brakes.

Fixies never gave me any trouble so long as the steep bits were fairly short. From where I'm sitting I have 50 ft of 25% before I get to the roads I ride. So all my bikes are geared for dead cold 25%!!

I imagine with strong knees and good skills and relatively short hills, there wouldn't be excessive risks. My knees get stronger and stop hurting when I do regular sprints and intervals at high spin and power. That sort of describes much of fixie riding.

I've been considering a single speed myself, for use with hill walkup shoes!

If you are concerned about your knees, ride SS. I'm 56 ride a schwinn Madison on club rides to 40 miles, my limit, any terrain setup as a SS with two brakes. I only ride it fixed for short rides when it's flat. There is no reason to go and hurt yourself trying to keep up with the kids.

Ah, I note that the old codgers here are beginning to lose the knowledge of riding fixed gears.

I have been riding fixed gears for about 37 years now. When I was a young racer, I rode fixed gears in the winter as part of my training. The past few years I have been riding fixed gears just about all the time (except when I'm on the tandem). Mastery of a fixed gear will definitely make you a better cyclist, but there are a few misconceptions that need to be cleared up:

Rule number one: (especially if you want to save your knees) Never, never, ever backpedal a fixed gear to slow down! You should be able to ride a fixed gear without a lock ring (don't get me started on lockings, the most useless (and possibly dangerous) piece of cycling equipment ever invented). You use your brakes to stop. I prefer mounting both front and rear brakes. This comes from my days of riding in the winter, where a rear brake comes in very handy on icy or snow-covered roads. Even when you ride on the track with no brakes, you stop by merely letting the bike slow to a stop (or having your loopie catch you like a Navy fighter jet landing on an aircraft carrier).

Climbing hills: I ride a 70" gear (42x16), and I can get up most hills as long as I do it slowly. If you want to save your lower back, you need to be out of the saddle. There is a secret technique that nobody ever tells you about that will improve your climbing. Since you are reading this far, I will let you in on it: when out of the saddle, make sure you are as far forward on the bike as you can get with your elbows bent at about 90 degrees (the strongest position - they teach you about 90 degrees in xc ski racing), and most important, make sure you straighten the pushing leg before the pedal gets to 3 o'clock. That's it. You'll find most uneducated climbers don't straighten the leg until it's just about at 6 o'clock, and they wonder why climbing is so hard. When you straighten the leg by 3 o'clock, you are basically not doing any work - you are letting your body weight drive the pedal, and you are resting on skeletal structure instead of muscular structure, which is why it will be far less tiring. So now you know... (and if you want to increase your speed on the climb, you merely pull up faster with the back leg) (And don't rock the bike side to side! It goes faster when it's held straight! Rocking slows you down (increased friction at the tire).)

If you want to develop a beautiful cycling technique, ride a fixed gear. It will not wreck your knees as long as you ease into it. Even spinning downhill at over 120 rpm's, you will find that it teaches you to relax, and it will make you a far better cyclist.

L.

+1

I believe if you have the correct gearing, riding fixed is no harder on your knees than riding geared. However, I also use 2 brakes-- and I have ridden the fixie in centuries, in the mountains, all over. It is my main commuter, and if you use the brakes to stop, your knees will be fine.

Not using brakes on a fixie will wear out your tires, wear out your chain and wear out your knees... I think most young guys riding fixed today with no brakes are going to have knee problems in 20 or so years. If you use brakes, your knees will love you and you will become a better cyclist-- also riding fixed is a lot of fun :)

train safe-

Indeed. This is my 44th year of riding fixed-gear bikes. My only racing bike in the mid-'60s was a fixed gear; at that time, the ABLA rule book said only that fixed-gear bikes used for road races must have at least one working brake. I'm still using the same 72" gear I used for training back then (51 x 19 on one track bike and 48 x 18 on another). I was getting some pain in my left knee last winter that had me worried, but I rode the track bike almost exclusively this spring and summer (on many 4- to 7-hour extremely hilly rides) and found that the pain slowly went away (no knee pain now). Coincidence? Who knows?

Using a pulsemeter to limit my efforts on climbs (starting this spring, I decided to try stay as close as possible to a constant 155 bpm throughout each ride) may have helped. It definitely helped me to get stronger than I've been in years. Just last Saturday I caught up with a guy who first said, "You snuck up on me!" (I thought but did not say, So you didn't see me in that eyeglass mirror and just happened to accelerate when I was about 50 yards behind you?) The next thing he said was, "I smoke everybody in 30-mile time trials!" Gratifying.

I'm riding single speed (44/17), with a little bit of arthritis in my knees. I went with SS instead of fixed because I didn't want to be locked into constant motion (I converted my bike from a 10-speed). Some claim that having to pedal constantly is good for flexibility, but I'd rather have the option of coasting down hills rather than spinning really, really fast.

The single-speed will probably become my backup/errand bike when I've built up stamina/strength for longer rides, but it's just the thing for conditioning in flat or gently hilly terrain.

I realize that the fixed-gear has it's enthusiastic advocates.... Not for me. The more gears the better. When our old friend Tullio Campagnolo invented the modern derailleur back in 1933...That was a great day.

I fail to see why one cannot develop an "elegant" riding style without resorting to fixed gears and single speeds.
A well-adjusted gearset, snicking positively from gear to gear to allow precise adjustment of pedaling pressure....Seems right to me.
Perhaps someday prior to my knees turning totally to dust someone will invent the elusive drive system that allows perfect adjustment of gearing across the range...

Bikewer makes a case for the benefits of a virtually automatic drive system, and yearns for the day when it would become fully automatic. There is no disputing the intelligence of the derailleur over what had existed previously, and that it has to be viewed as an advancement.

I ask you however to envision a simple drawing of a hill in your mind. Now, sketch a line going from the base to the top at a slight angle; and then another with multiple switch-backs from the base to the top. The road with the switch-backs is analagous to applying gears to the problem of the hill. The road with the straighter path to the top is analagous to a fixed-gear application. Now, take away the scenic benefit of taking the longer path with the easier grade. I would think that some of us would prefer to take the more strenuous route on occasion. on other days, we would be more inclined to take the more gradual longer path, where the extra distance the pedals travel serves to slice the hill up into more manageable pieces. By the application of gears offering 30 choices, it is possible to reduce the hill to flat-ground status, as Bikewer advocates. The other option would result in the hill being felt through the pedals much differently than would flat ground riding. But, is this bad? Do you really want to shave the hill mechanically down to a point where you do not experience it differently than casual flat ground riding?

I am 59, and ride two fixies, one with a 49/17 and one with a 50/19. Something like 72" and 78" or so, if I remember. I ride them in a moderately hilly area in a prairie povince. I also have a good quality geared bike. You know whether you really prefer to ride fixed, if you have the option and you select the fixed offerings most of the time; and I do.

Things I have discovered in fixed riding:

1-You have an anvantage in moderate hills. This is the most ironic. The justification of gears is frequently given as a huge advantage in ascending. What you discover is that not only do you build power in training in the hills, you approach the hill more aggresively, capitalizing on momentum and climbing techniques that you may never discover if the derailleur is your best friend. If you then switch to your geared bike and ride in a pack, you may find yourself going ahead of your mates as the road inclines, even if it is not your intention, they are not used to applying that incremental power increase to that situation. For myself, I love the hills. I can honestly say that I almost never would wish them away, and that hell is a dusty road with nothing but more flat road on the horizon. I love that feeling when the body recognizes the demands of the hill, and the breathing reacts accordingly, and the sweat starts to crawl down the tip of my nose. I credit the hill for that. Sure I could throw the derailleur on and arrange it so that there was virtually no effect on me physically, but why would I want to do that?


2-Coasting is pernicious ( as Sheldon Brown maintaines.) Shedding this habit as it is practised in anything other than steep decents is an advantage to your overally riding technique

Fixed gear riding offends some. Not sure why that is. Linking back to the way riding was prior to 1904 is interesting to some, but rediculous to others. I think it has to do with the difference between those who think progress is linear and those who think things are more complex than that.

I didn't mean to imply that I thought that fixed-gear/singlespeed bikes were "bad" in any way. For those that are willing to put up with their foibles, I'm sure they're great.

Just not for me. Surely you'll concede that these bikes are somewhat "rare" in the overall scheme of things. I recall bringing one into the station (a student had left it insecured) and trying to explain to the other bike officers exactly how you went about riding one. They just shook their heads....

Different strokes for different folks. If you want to see "different", I'll post another pic of my home-made recumbent. There's about 5 bikes running around in this one.....

Bikewer-Your post was succinct and reasonable. I totally understand your position on derailleur systems. A quality one, well adjusted is a joy. And it was not really you who I was thinking about in my last paragraph concerning those who are offended by the idea of fixies, and feel obliged to challenge the concept whenever it is proposed. After sending my post, I was thinking that I yet again made a weak argument, since most of the benefit cited could be achieved by electing a higher gear for climbing with a geared setup. To the original poster, Sheldon Brown makes a case for fixies far better than I ever could. If you have this itch and wonder if it is for you, you might as well scratch it and go for it. As far as concerns about preserving 50 year old knees-there are countless sets of pristine NOS knees that have never been maxed out in cemetaries all over the land. The new report on running for instance, which compared runners to non-runners over 20 years or so, found that even in the hip and knee areas, runners had less issues than sedentary folks. This to many seems counter-intuitive and flies against what many have been advocating for years now. Field sports seem to be the area where knees come under more harm, probably since the leg is spiked into the turf, and torque may be applied from the side. If one does elect to fry fixed-gear riding, my advice: choose a reasonable gear at first-68" may be in the range, and be careful. Also, do not clean a moving chain on stand-you may get your hand drawn into the chainring.

I'm a total noob--having bought my first fixie yesterday. One selling point: It is set with up low gearing for the hills around here, so that could be an option for the OP. With a flip-flop hub it offers the option of going as a freewheeling singlespeed. I see it as a bike for mostly short, around-town jaunts. We'll see how it all works out.

Oh yeah, Tulio Campagnolo and I share the same birthday, and I do loves me triple chainring and super granny gear.