Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

The dreaded intervals!!!

Reply

Old 06-25-09, 09:48 AM
  #1  
jppe
Let's do a Century
Thread Starter
 
jppe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 7,242

Bikes: Pinarello Prince/Campy SR; Cervelo R3/Sram Red; Trek 5900/Duraace, Cervelo P2C/Duraace, Cannondle Tandem/Ultegra, Lynskey GR260 Ultegra

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 281 Post(s)
The dreaded intervals!!!

Only FOUR of us show up Tuesday night for our regular ride. Two of the riders were on their pattern for doing an easy, recovery ride.......so we last saw them at about mile 2.

The 4th rider had just gotten a 14.5 lb Fuji SL1 (very small sized frame but the weight includes wheels, pedals, saddle, cages, SRAM gruppo etc) and he wanted to see what his new ride would do. I wanted to ride a good pace and get in a few interval workouts. The fellow with the new bike is about 10 years older than me and I can normally drop him by really pushing the pace on the hills.

The route we selected (we kept adding to it as we went) was just short of 40 miles. He decided he'd just motopace off my wheel and just hang on as long as he could. There were 10 places where there was sufficient enough of a climb to get my HR to 85%-90% of max-the longest hill being about 1.5 miles. I hit every one of those hills as hard as I could.....from the bottom to the top. My HR zoomed up to where I was close to throwing up on every hill.....you know the feeling.

I never could drop the rascal-in fact I don't think I ever came close. It was a sunny day and I could see his shadow right behind me the whole time........on every hill........so I'd just push harder.

We averaged just shy of 22 mph for the 40 miles. Even though I backed off and let my HR come back down after the hills it still averaged WAY above what it normally would.

I think I've found a new way to do the dreaded intervals.......

And my riding buddy has picked up one heck of new bike!!
jppe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 12:58 PM
  #2  
Hermes 
Version 3.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: La Jolla, CA
Posts: 11,000

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 270 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Great way to improve! I must be a mutant but I like interval work and riding the trainer. I find intervals and trainer work one of the few areas where the effort pays large consistent dividends.
Hermes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 05:05 PM
  #3  
George
Senior Member
 
George's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Katy Texas
Posts: 5,494

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
I was doing about the same thing with my neighbor. I was following him though. After 30 miles I averaged a heart rate of 50 bpm. My max is suppose to be 58. It felt pretty good when we were done, but not while we were doing it.
__________________
George
George is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-09, 08:43 AM
  #4  
NOS88
Senior Member
 
NOS88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montgomery County, Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Great way to improve! I must be a mutant but I like interval work and riding the trainer. I find intervals and trainer work one of the few areas where the effort pays large consistent dividends.
+1 on liking interval work...not crazy about the trainer though. With intervals you know they are going to be over. With the trainer, it seems like it will last for ever. Who was it that first said, "The only way to get faster is to ride faster."?
__________________
A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. - S. Wright
Favorite rides in the stable: Indy Fab CJ Ti - Colnago MXL - S-Works Roubaix - Habanero Team Issue - Jamis Eclipse carbon/831
NOS88 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-09, 09:06 AM
  #5  
roccobike
Bike Junkie
 
roccobike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: South of Raleigh, North of New Hill, East of Harris Lake, NC
Posts: 9,548

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Specialized Roubaix, Giant OCR-C, Specialized Stumpjumper FSR, Stumpjumper Comp, 88 & 92Nishiki Ariel, 87 Centurion Ironman, 92 Paramount, 84 Nishiki Medalist

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
JPPE, I'm really impressed with your speed and you've got my full attention. After a dismal start this year (15 avg speed at a charity ride) I'm riding with three groups each week and have worked my way up to a consistant 17.7-17.9 MPH avg speed (based on cyclometer computation) including hilly group rides, over 30 to 40 mile distances. I've lost over 15lbs and I'm sure that helped. How are you approaching the interval rides and what would you recommend for someone like me trying to break into the 19-20 range?
__________________
Roccobike BF Official Thread Terminator
roccobike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-09, 09:16 AM
  #6  
Hermes 
Version 3.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: La Jolla, CA
Posts: 11,000

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 270 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Originally Posted by NOS88 View Post
+1 on liking interval work...not crazy about the trainer though. With intervals you know they are going to be over. With the trainer, it seems like it will last for ever. Who was it that first said, "The only way to get faster is to ride faster."?
When I ride the trainer, there is always a training objective and the session is broken up with different cadence, power, recovery periods and short 2 to 3 minute objectives. So I am focused on the short term objectives and the time goes fast. I used to ride the trainer for an hour at some level with the objective of logging saddle time so that I do can be better on the road. For me, that is too broad an objective and I become totally bored. I am convinced that if used properly the trainer can be superior to the road. Once you get that mindset and prove that it is true, the trainer become a useful tool to enhance your road experience.

I am training for the 2K pursuit District Championships in two weeks. Last night, I was in the cycling gym doing intervals on my track bike. In fact, I had my TT bike set up on one trainer and my track bike on another. I warmed up and recovered on the TT bike and then my coach supervised VO2 max constant power intervals on the track bike. It would not be possible to push as hard as I did on the trainer with my coach offering encouragement on the track at speed. On the track, you have to maintain some sense of wits about you or you may crash. On the trainer, you can go very hard in a very safe environment.

I still need a lot of track / road time but the trainer offers a unique safe way to get training done.
Hermes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-09, 10:55 AM
  #7  
SSP
Software for Cyclists
 
SSP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Redding, California
Posts: 4,618

Bikes: Trek 5200, Specialized MTB

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hey, Hermes...approximately how much total time per week do you spend in the Red Zone (zone 5 and up, per Friel)?

I'm sure it varies with your training goals, but I was wondering how much total time is spent in high intensity intervals, and how many sessions per week those represent.
SSP is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-09, 11:55 AM
  #8  
Hermes 
Version 3.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: La Jolla, CA
Posts: 11,000

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 270 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Originally Posted by SSP View Post
Hey, Hermes...approximately how much total time per week do you spend in the Red Zone (zone 5 and up, per Friel)?

I'm sure it varies with your training goals, but I was wondering how much total time is spent in high intensity intervals, and how many sessions per week those represent.
One track workout per week, which after the 30 lap warmup is all "interval" style work. For example, Tuesday:

4X100 meter jumps. This trains the ATP-CP system. It is a max sprint from a 10 mph roll for 100 meters. This is done at max effort and shut down within 7 seconds. We roll around the track for 3 slow laps to recharge the ATP-CP system and do it again. My HR does not go above 135. So this is not the red zone per se. I think this is predominately a track thing. I do not see road cyclists practice these. However, they are great to increase your acceleration from speed. The ATP-CP system is a one shot system that must be recharged after use.

5XFlying One laps. This is a neuromuscular / leg speed power builder. 1/2 lap windup and then max effort for one lap 330 meters. The average speed is 34 mph and I get close to max HR. Duration is 20 seconds. These are very difficult and we take 5 minutes rest rolling around the track between efforts.

4x4 lap pursuits. This is done on the aero bars at slightly above TT pace but in the red zone with 5 minute recovery between sets. Each set takes about 2 minutes.

3x1 standing start. This is standing start in a pursuit gear. Max effort to get started and shut down in 100 meters. 3 to 4 laps rest between starts. This is very tiring and feels like doing leg presses.

Last night was 3X2 VO2 max with a long warmup and a 2 minute lead-in interval with a minute rest followed by VO2 max. 5 minutes between efforts.

I workout 5 days a week with two of the five devoted to interval work of some kind. So one could say I am 40% in the Z5+ but that may be misleading. If I were training for TTs, I would be motor pacing and doing more Z4 work / TT practice.
Hermes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-09, 12:18 PM
  #9  
SSP
Software for Cyclists
 
SSP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Redding, California
Posts: 4,618

Bikes: Trek 5200, Specialized MTB

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks, Hermes. That sounds like a pretty intense training regimen, but for racing that's what you've got to do.

And if you enjoy intervals on the trainer, then Yes...you are a "mutant".
SSP is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-09, 01:45 PM
  #10  
Hermes 
Version 3.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: La Jolla, CA
Posts: 11,000

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 270 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Originally Posted by SSP View Post
Thanks, Hermes. That sounds like a intense training regimen, but for racing that's what you've got to do.

And if you enjoy intervals on the trainer, then Yes...you are a "mutant".
Here is my advice to my 55+ competitors in the NorCal/Nev district...
  1. Take it easy, you are getting old.
  2. It is time to slow down and smell the roses.
  3. Trainers are boring and useless.
  4. Limit your HR to 125 max.
  5. Eat, drink and be merry.
  6. Pie is your friend.
Hermes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-09, 02:01 PM
  #11  
SSP
Software for Cyclists
 
SSP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Redding, California
Posts: 4,618

Bikes: Trek 5200, Specialized MTB

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Here is my advice to my 55+ competitors in the NorCal/Nev district...
  1. Take it easy, you are getting old.
  2. It is time to slow down and smell the roses.
  3. Trainers are boring and useless.
  4. Limit your HR to 125 max.
  5. Eat, drink and be merry.
  6. Pie is your friend.


BTW - were you at Sattley? If so, were you in M55+? And what was your time?
SSP is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-09, 02:11 PM
  #12  
Hermes 
Version 3.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: La Jolla, CA
Posts: 11,000

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 270 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Originally Posted by SSP View Post


BTW - were you at Sattley? If so, were you in M55+? And what was your time?
No. I missed Dunlap and Sattley and I would have been in the M55+. I came down with a chest cold and it was bad. On the day of the Dunlap race, I had congestion and tightness in my chest. And this hung around for 3 weeks. This was the first week that I was back at full lung capability. My wife had the same thing. Just a bad cold, no fever and etc. but very limiting.
Hermes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-09, 02:20 PM
  #13  
SSP
Software for Cyclists
 
SSP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Redding, California
Posts: 4,618

Bikes: Trek 5200, Specialized MTB

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, I hope you're getting better then.

The times at Sattley were pretty amazing. I set a PR (58:28), but that was only good enough for 6th out of 10 in 55-59.

A guy in 40-44 set a new course record - 49:35!! I think that works out to just over 30 mph for the 40K!
SSP is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-09, 02:55 PM
  #14  
Hermes 
Version 3.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: La Jolla, CA
Posts: 11,000

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 270 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
The race reports I read from our club indicated that the wind was light. Of course, this is the year I miss. The two previous years, my wife and I rode our tandem in gusty strong winds.

JPPE...sorry for the temporary highjack of your thread.
Hermes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-09, 07:12 PM
  #15  
jppe
Let's do a Century
Thread Starter
 
jppe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 7,242

Bikes: Pinarello Prince/Campy SR; Cervelo R3/Sram Red; Trek 5900/Duraace, Cervelo P2C/Duraace, Cannondle Tandem/Ultegra, Lynskey GR260 Ultegra

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 281 Post(s)
Originally Posted by roccobike View Post
JPPE, I'm really impressed with your speed and you've got my full attention. After a dismal start this year (15 avg speed at a charity ride) I'm riding with three groups each week and have worked my way up to a consistant 17.7-17.9 MPH avg speed (based on cyclometer computation) including hilly group rides, over 30 to 40 mile distances. I've lost over 15lbs and I'm sure that helped. How are you approaching the interval rides and what would you recommend for someone like me trying to break into the 19-20 range?
Ride with faster guys-stay with them as long as you can.......build up to stay with the faster guys longer. You will get there-be patient. There will ups and downs.........then one day you make a big step forward.
jppe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-09, 10:54 PM
  #16  
Red Rider
Don't mince words
 
Red Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Vacaville, CA
Posts: 6,967

Bikes: '16 BH Quartz, 2017 Calfeecustom carbon tandem, Fuji D6 TT bike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Originally Posted by jppe View Post
Ride with faster guys-stay with them as long as you can.......build up to stay with the faster guys longer. You will get there-be patient. There will ups and downs.........then one day you make a big step forward.
After being dropped in the last 3 of my 4 group rides, this is my mantra.

Recovery continues.
Red Rider is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-09, 11:21 AM
  #17  
Terex
Senior Member
 
Terex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 7600' Northern New Mexico
Posts: 3,608

Bikes: Specialized 6Fattie, Parlee Z5, Scott Addict

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Red Rider View Post
After being dropped in the last 3 of my 4 group rides, this is my mantra.

Recovery continues.
This is my mantra: bring maps.

I didn't need them this week.
Terex is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service