Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Fifty Plus (50+)
Reload this Page >

How to Climb Hills - Going from 27-speed to 12-speed

Notices
Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

How to Climb Hills - Going from 27-speed to 12-speed

Old 07-09-09, 12:49 PM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Rixtory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bloody Hills of Saucon Valley
Posts: 103

Bikes: 1986 Cilo 12 Speed, 2003 Trek 7700 FX, 2016 Specialized Diverge, 2020 Specialized Turbo Vado 5-SL

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
How to Climb Hills - Going from 27-speed to 12-speed

Hello....
I started riding again hard this spring and am down 65 lbs so far. I ride about 12-15 miles a day and attribute much of my success to my love/hate relationship with all the hills around me.
I have a questions for those with older 12 speed bikes. I got my old 1986 12-speed Cilo out again (105 Biopace grouping) and put new wheels on and cleaned it up (I keep the old as a set of spares).
I am now riding this bike as much as possible and really am enjoying it over my Trek FX 7700 27 speed.

My problem is this - I have some serious hills near me (600-700'' in a mile rise) and I cannot tackle them with my 12 speed. Depending on my route I need to use my 27 speed Trek Hybrid.
Has anyone else gone back to a 12-speed and found the gearing (52T/42T) just too difficult for hills?
I am wondering what everyone does....
Thanks
Rick
Rixtory is offline  
Old 07-09-09, 12:53 PM
  #2  
Time for a change.
 
stapfam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 6 miles inland from the coast of Sussex, in the South East of England
Posts: 19,913

Bikes: Dale MT2000. Bianchi FS920 Kona Explosif. Giant TCR C. Boreas Ignis. Pinarello Fp Uno.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
That will put the hills at around 12 to 15%. For me that is 34/27 gearing but I also have a triple with a 39 middle ring. I can just about tackle them on 39/27 but not too many on a ride.

So lower your gearing or take the triple off the FX and fit that to the Cilo.
__________________
How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


Spike Milligan
stapfam is offline  
Old 07-09-09, 01:17 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Far, Far Northern California
Posts: 2,873

Bikes: 1997 Specialized M2Pro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I stand up. For long, steep grades, I need to take breaks.
TromboneAl is offline  
Old 07-09-09, 02:01 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,528

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5219 Post(s)
Liked 3,564 Times in 2,331 Posts
Yes, I faced this, this spring. I just got it in my head that this is the bike I have and these are the hills I have. One double hill in particular was very difficult. I just made sure to rest before the hill, get into the lowest gear beforehand, pedaled slowly on the approach and worked it to the best of my ability. I never stood and just went slowly. I can do these hills how much better than when I started.

I've taken a break due to work schedule and vacation time and when I get back to it I will be using my 21 speed and I'm curious how that switch will be. Will I go to the lowest gear? I shall see.
rumrunn6 is offline  
Old 07-09-09, 02:23 PM
  #5  
Banned.
 
Mr. Beanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Upland Ca
Posts: 19,895

Bikes: Lemond Chambery/Cannondale R-900/Trek 8000 MTB/Burley Duet tandem

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
My wife has an 84 Bianchi. We swapped the bio pace rings for a 52 big ring and a 38 inner ring. Then slapped on a 11-28 cassette. Does fine on the climbs.
Mr. Beanz is offline  
Old 07-09-09, 02:43 PM
  #6  
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,765

Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1384 Post(s)
Liked 1,294 Times in 819 Posts
You failed to indicate the size of the freewheel cogs on your 12-speed. If you have a 13-23 cluster like mine, switching to a 13-26 will make a noticeable difference, generally without forcing you to buy a new derailleur. I have run a 13-15-17-19-21-23-26 7-speed freewheel on the Bianchi, which replicated my original 12 gears while giving me the additional granny.

Mr. Beanz has a good solution for those with a 130mm or smaller BCD. If you have a 144mm BCD and are stuck with a 42T minimum chainring size, then your cheapest option is a larger freewheel and, if necessary, a new rear derailleur. (The other option is a new bottom bracket, or at least a new spindle, and a tripleizer.) I use a 42/26 = 43.6" gear for the local 13 to 16% grades, because that's the bottom end on most of my road bikes. (Capo #1 has a near-equivalent 38/23 granny.)
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069

Last edited by John E; 07-09-09 at 02:47 PM.
John E is offline  
Old 07-09-09, 06:44 PM
  #7  
gone ride'n
 
cyclinfool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 4,050

Bikes: Simoncini, Gary Fisher, Specialized Tarmac

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Rixtory
My problem is this - I have some serious hills near me (600-700'' in a mile rise) and I cannot tackle them with my 12 speed.
Those are some serious hills - usually anything over 8% for more than about 100yds is beyond what most highway departments will accept. South of Bethlehem it's either up or down with not much in between. There is stuff in there that's easily 12% and in some cases 20% I think I'd get some low gears and learn to spin - your other option would be to find a good surgeon for your knees.
cyclinfool is offline  
Old 07-09-09, 07:17 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Rixtory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bloody Hills of Saucon Valley
Posts: 103

Bikes: 1986 Cilo 12 Speed, 2003 Trek 7700 FX, 2016 Specialized Diverge, 2020 Specialized Turbo Vado 5-SL

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks all for the replies. C-Fool - I grew up on the shores of Lake Ontario and only really had to worry about the wind (in one direction) on my rides. I am now just S of Beth and the hills here are no joke. LOL...Our highway department hasn't yet found a grade they can't pave. And it is 2.4 MPH up and 41 MPH down. Legs and lungs get a great workout, but the curves and road grades make it very scary sometimes - especially with animals near dusk. It means riding the brakes all the way down to stay under 30MPH.
I will look at the teeth on my freewheel. I hadn't thought about replacing the 6 speed 105 freewheel with a 7 speed freewheel. The bike is chromoly (Cilo) so I think I can widen the rear dropouts a little.
I have looked at new road bikes, but I bought this bike new in 86 and it was my P&J for many, many years.
I had it in the basement for a few years and am extremely happy to have pulled it out and restored parts of it...
Rixtory is offline  
Old 07-09-09, 07:18 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,853

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1851 Post(s)
Liked 654 Times in 498 Posts
Originally Posted by Rixtory
Hello....
I started riding again hard this spring and am down 65 lbs so far. I ride about 12-15 miles a day and attribute much of my success to my love/hate relationship with all the hills around me.
I have a questions for those with older 12 speed bikes. I got my old 1986 12-speed Cilo out again (105 Biopace grouping) and put new wheels on and cleaned it up (I keep the old as a set of spares).
I am now riding this bike as much as possible and really am enjoying it over my Trek FX 7700 27 speed.

My problem is this - I have some serious hills near me (600-700'' in a mile rise) and I cannot tackle them with my 12 speed. Depending on my route I need to use my 27 speed Trek Hybrid.
Has anyone else gone back to a 12-speed and found the gearing (52T/42T) just too difficult for hills?
I am wondering what everyone does....
Thanks
Rick
I have all vintage bikes. You can lower your gear range a few ways.

First, most cranksets that will accept a 42 tooth ring will accept a small ring of 39 teeth. It's not a big change, but it will help.

Second, if your rear frame spacing is 126 mm (measure with a metric ruler) and not 120 mm, you can replace your 6-speed freewheel with a Shimano Megarange 13-34. That will give a very low bail-out gear that will at least get you up most hills if you don't have a heavy touring load. Your bottom gear will then be 26*39/34 = 30 inches. You'll probably need to get a wide-range rear derailleur and add some chain length. It should all work with friction shifting.

I used a setup like this here in Michigan and it helped build my wind so I could survive slogging uphill. A few years later I'm a bit lighter and somewhat stronger, and I'm going up them in 39/26, for 39 inches. I'm also a bit faster, since I'm spinning this gear fast enough to avoid knee pain.

I think going to lower gears at this point will help you. You can change back to taller gears later on, if you like.

I can't tell you how to climb. But this is part of what helped me learn to climb.
Road Fan is offline  
Old 07-09-09, 07:22 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,853

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1851 Post(s)
Liked 654 Times in 498 Posts
Ok, your hills are a lot bigger than mine, but I still think getting more mechanical advantage will help you keep going. Might still be 2.4 mph uphill, but easier on your knees.

What are your freewheel tooth counts?
Road Fan is offline  
Old 07-09-09, 09:36 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
At a rear spacing of 126mm, I think you can fit a 7 speed freewheel on without stretching the distance of the dropouts. I did it on a 1985 Trek with no problem. I don't think 8 speed will work.
professorbob is offline  
Old 07-10-09, 05:36 AM
  #12  
just keep riding
 
BluesDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Milledgeville, Georgia
Posts: 13,560

Bikes: 2018 Black Mountain Cycles MCD,2017 Advocate Cycles Seldom Seen Drop Bar, 2017 Niner Jet 9 Alloy, 2015 Zukas custom road, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 22 Posts
+1 on the seven speed freewheel and the 13-34 megarange. I made that change on my '80 Fuji without needing to widen the rear dropouts. It already had 126mm spacing. I was surprised to find that my Suntour rear derailleur could handle the larger cog with no problem. I only needed a new longer chain.
The drawback of the megarange freewheel is the huge jump from the 34 tooth cog to the 24 tooth second cog makes it hard to adjust your speed as the slope eases. You just have to stay in the 34 until the slope is gentle enough for the 24.
BluesDawg is offline  
Old 07-11-09, 05:54 AM
  #13  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Rixtory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bloody Hills of Saucon Valley
Posts: 103

Bikes: 1986 Cilo 12 Speed, 2003 Trek 7700 FX, 2016 Specialized Diverge, 2020 Specialized Turbo Vado 5-SL

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
OK All, I finally got a chance to look at the freewheel.
It is a Shimano MF2012 6 speed with 13-15-17-19-21-23 teeth combo.
My Rear dropout spacing is 126, so I think I can easily add this 13-34 Megarange (they seem to be somewhat abundant and rather inexpensive).
I replaced my 6-speed chain last week and cleaned up the old one with brake cleaner and then a bath in WD40, so I can grab a couple of links off that and add them to the new chain (unless this isn't a good idea. Does anyone know how I would calculate the needed chain length if I add the megarange 11 teeth more? I don't think it is as simple as adding 11 links. is there a method of calc?

Also, I noticed on the old freewheel that most of the cogs have what looks like 1 half-tooth - are these worn teeth, or are they part of Shimano's uniglide system (I think that's what it was called back then....)?

Thanks again for all the expert help here.....
Rixtory is offline  
Old 07-11-09, 06:52 AM
  #14  
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
your lowest gear at the moment is approx 49.3" ie 42x23
If you do nothing else but swop your 42 chainring for a 38 it will give you 44.6" a very useful decrease of nearly 5" which is practically the same as adding a 26t sprocket to your cassette.


if you also fit a 12-27 8 speed cassette you'll get a total decrease of 11.3" which will effectively be 4x gear changes which is huge.

Your current rear mech should cope happily with a 27 sprocket and your chain may not need much adjustment as the extra length required for the 27t sprocket will mostly be negated by the change from 42 to 38 chainring

A 38t chainring will give you a bigger jump between the two chainrings ie 52 and 38 but most modern road transmissions have a similar gap
massi is offline  
Old 07-11-09, 11:18 AM
  #15  
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,765

Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1384 Post(s)
Liked 1,294 Times in 819 Posts
Originally Posted by massi
your lowest gear at the moment is approx 49.3" ie 42x23
If you do nothing else but swop your 42 chainring for a 38 it will give you 44.6" a very useful decrease of nearly 5" which is practically the same as adding a 26t sprocket to your cassette.


if you also fit a 12-27 8 speed cassette you'll get a total decrease of 11.3" which will effectively be 4x gear changes which is huge.

Your current rear mech should cope happily with a 27 sprocket and your chain may not need much adjustment as the extra length required for the 27t sprocket will mostly be negated by the change from 42 to 38 chainring

A 38t chainring will give you a bigger jump between the two chainrings ie 52 and 38 but most modern road transmissions have a similar gap
Massi is correct, with a couple of caveats. First, if you have a 144mm BCD crankset, which is highly likely, you cannot go below 42T up front, unless you find a rare (and expensive) 41T ring from TA. Second, your old Campagnolo derailleur may have trouble handling a 27T low gear, particularly with 8 or 9 cogs, because the cage unfortunately starts to move upward as it moves inward -- this was the motivation behind SunTour's now-ubiquitous slant planograph. You may have better luck handling a wider range in back if you go with a narrower range up front -- my Bianchi came with 52-42/13-23 (6 cogs), which I have successfully replaced at various times with 50-42/14-26 (6 cogs) and 50-42/13-26 (7 cogs). I'll bet the Campagnolo NR could handle something like 46-42/13-28 or even 46-42/12-29. You would definitely notice the difference in the bottom gear.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Old 07-11-09, 03:31 PM
  #16  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Rixtory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bloody Hills of Saucon Valley
Posts: 103

Bikes: 1986 Cilo 12 Speed, 2003 Trek 7700 FX, 2016 Specialized Diverge, 2020 Specialized Turbo Vado 5-SL

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
OK... Before I get called on this,I should change the name of the Thread: from "going from 27-speed to 12-speed" to "going from 9-Speed Triple Crank to Six-Speed Double crank" I just realized I was using very old naming conventions... Sorry.....
Rixtory is offline  
Old 07-11-09, 03:43 PM
  #17  
gone ride'n
 
cyclinfool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 4,050

Bikes: Simoncini, Gary Fisher, Specialized Tarmac

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Rixtory
OK... Before I get called on this,I should change the name of the Thread: from "going from 27-speed to 12-speed" to "going from 9-Speed Triple Crank to Six-Speed Double crank" I just realized I was using very old naming conventions... Sorry.....
Sorry - your stuck with it! Your just an old retro 50+er like the rest of us...
cyclinfool is offline  
Old 07-13-09, 08:16 AM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 118

Bikes: 2 Raleigh Sprints. 1 Saracen tourer. dawes Galaxy, 1985 Harry Hall racer, 1991 Raleigh Special Products 853 Race bike. 1985 Raleigh Royal

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I have the same problem with a Raleigh Sprint running 52x42 24-13. Can we confirm that a megarange will work and keep original front rings?
bigjim1 is offline  
Old 07-13-09, 08:33 AM
  #19  
just keep riding
 
BluesDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Milledgeville, Georgia
Posts: 13,560

Bikes: 2018 Black Mountain Cycles MCD,2017 Advocate Cycles Seldom Seen Drop Bar, 2017 Niner Jet 9 Alloy, 2015 Zukas custom road, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by bigjim1
I have the same problem with a Raleigh Sprint running 52x42 24-13. Can we confirm that a megarange will work and keep original front rings?
If your rear spacing is 126mm, the 7 speed megarange frewheel will fit in place of a 6 speed freewheel. You will need a longer chain and you may or may not need a different rear derailleur.
BluesDawg is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.