I am sure your right, if a rim is designed for a specific tire width, then you should use that width of tire, or a tire within the recommended range. There are exceptions though. For example a lot or mountain bike rims are supposed to be used with very wide, knobby, low pressure tires, but work just as well with a narrow, smooth, medium pressure tire. Which I have been doing on my mountain/hybrid for 3 years now.

It all really comes down to the riding you want to do. I am probably at the opposite end of the spectrum. I want to be able to spend hours in the saddle, and speed is not that important, other then in determining how far you can ride in a single day. I also want to be able to stop and take pictures, which may mean an average speed of 16 - 20km/h (10-12MPH). However bike fit is going to be quite different. As for the tires, 38mm, 85PSI seem to work quite well.

Thanks Al,
I agree with you on this, it has been my experience that a good fit gets you close but the real test is after you have done over 45 miles in the saddle. At least for me that is when the little things matter. Usually when I am changing something on the bike I will go on a particular 50 mile ride, a combination of rollers, flats and a good climb in the middle. I will take my tools and make the adjustments once I am about 1/2 way into the ride. Usually by the end I am dialed in. I have gotten the Tarmac to where it is pretty good even over this long ride - but still can't make it work out to a metric. As soon as I can get a free evening I will run out to the LBS and seek their advice, but I may just end up buying a few cheap stems as you suggest.

This thread is interesting to me since I had a similar issue with my Masi. It's a 56 cm with a sloping top tube and, as much as I love it, always felt a little "big" to me. It wasn't a major issue (I thought) and the frame size was what I usually ride as was the 110 cm stem. But I always felt a little stretched out and the bike just felt big. Then one day I realized that over the years I've lost about an inch in height and it's all in my upper body. So I got myself a 100 cm stem and now my bike feels "right" and no longer has the too big feel. Now I really love my bike. Anyone looking for a 110 cm Easton stem?

Hermes,

Thanks for posting the Lance pic - this inspired me to get both my bikes out and have my wife photograph my position on them as I would normally ride. Several note worthy differences, I am a bit more stretched out on the Tarmac. My back is flatter as well. I have campy on my Simoncini and Shimano on my Tarmac, The campy hoods are further forward and I don't tend to grip them, I do grip them on the Tarmac. So two differences, one is the reach, the other is how I ride the bars/hoods. I will take the gamble on the short stem - if anything, it will get me closer to my other bike fit.

OK - I finally did it and ordered a 80mm stem - not too expensive and 10g lighter than my Specialized Pro-set that came on the bike. I figured I needed around a 15 degree angle to keep the bar height the same (current angle is 10 but the new stem has less reach). However the new stem has only 5 degrees, but I have 2cm of spacers under the bars, I figure I'll have to swap over 1.5cm in spacers and then I'll be about right. I can play with that as well.

Reports will come after the parts arrive and I get a chance to try things out.

You may have found the problem or at least the difference. The Tarmac frame may be too big for you but not really a problem. If you look at the UCI pro team and the local elite Cat 1/2 racers, they pick smaller frames to get a shorter head tube and more seat to bar drop. Note that their stems are longer to compensate for short top tubes.

A flatter back MAY be okay for you or maybe not. It definitely will impact your spine on a long ride and you may not have enough hamstring and back flexibility for the posture. Over time, muscles tighten up as they fatigue and may cause discomfort.

I tend to have poor posture anyway and what I saw in the pics was that I had a little less curve in the back but my arms were more than 90 degrees from my chest, with the Simoncini the arms were about at 90. Every other item, seemed as close as one could tell from a picture. One thing I have notices is a propensity to slide a little forward in the saddle, for a time I compensated for that by a little higher tilt but that caused other problems, So I think if I can get a little better saddle position and a little less stress on my lower back I will be better - maybe not century perfect, but better.

Well the new stem came in last night, I put it on the bike and rode my 6AM training ride, about 17 miles. I could tell the difference, I did not lower the stem so the bars were up higher as well as in closer. It's impossible to tell on a 1 hour ride as far as overall comfort is concerned. But after this short ride I know I need to drop the bar down at least one spacers thickness. I will do that tonight and ride the same route tomorrow. Another 50 miler is planned for Sat - that will be the real test.

I'd vote for a full professional Retul fit. I'm pretty cheap and very mechanical, and I can read and watch DIY videos like anyone else. I dialed in my new carbon bike last may. I'd go about 40 mi ok but then I'd get sore lower back and numb hands and arms, etc. The hotdogs in my bike club all kept telling me "got get a fit from John at Racer's Edge."

Finally I made the appointment. Long story short - It was the best $150 I've spent on my bike. Period. Replaced the stem (shorter) and seat post, (set back). John said "man, your bike is really pretty close. I don't often see them so close." Now, I never said that I had tried to dial it in, so I know he wasn't blowing smoke.

The real point is that "Close" may count in horseshoes and hand grenades, but not so in road bikes.

Note also I believe you said you other bike is lugged steel. Nothing short of a lazy boy will be as comfortable. IMHO.

Good luck with your experiments. I've been down the same road as you and discovered I could ride smaller frames than what I was riding at the time. Over time I've gone to smaller frames and the comfort is measurably better for me. But my riding style is longer rides at a fairly constant pace/HR. Also, don't forget you can move your brifters closer to the bars as well if needed. However, if an 80 stem works, that's a pretty short stem and would suggest you could defintely go with a smaller frame (assuming your other body lengths are not way out of proportion). A shorter stem will still work just as well as you probably know-certainly a much cheaper option!!

So far so good - I rode my 17 mile training ride again this morning, I lowered the bars about 7mm which seems a bit better. The bike is feeling more like my other bike now. It felt very good, but I won't notice any comfort issues until I do a long ride and that won't be until this weekend- if the weather holds. I had a 50 miler on tap for Sat but the forecast is not good. Climbing and handling seem fine right now - may lower the nose of the saddle a smidge. I am traveling for a few days so I can't give a full report until this weekend.

Looking at the picture of your bike is kind of deceiving, because of the way it's leaning on the tree. I was wondering how much drop you have. I read somewhere that having the stem up would shorten it about 10 mm. With the Roubaix being a 58 and the Look 57.4 I like the feel of the Look much better. I'm still playing with the drop as well, but I'm always playing with something on the bike anyhow. I think I dropped the bars to much now, because my back is bothering me just below the shoulder blades. I flipped the stem back up and when I feel better, I'll start taking spacers out a little at a time. I also read that you don't gain that much with the bars dropped a lot. That would be for recreational riders of course.

Yea - having the stem up will effectively make the reach shorter because of the head tube angle. I was surprised when I actually felt a little better on the bike when I swapped out a spacer and got them a little lower. My guess is things are in the sweat spot now, but as I said before, only a ride in excess of 40 miles will tell.

Rode just under 40 today - it feels better. My sit bones are in a better spot on the saddle which made my back side more comfortable over the ride - less need to stand and stretch out. The other two pain points I get seemed to be better but it is still too early to tell. I have a metric next weekend, that will be long enough to make a complete assessment.

Re hot foot:

I use lace-up shoes, and I find my feet get tight and hot after a while. It's a lot worse if I don't remember to tie my shoes loose at the beginning of a ride.

Today was a metric century - really ended up being more like 68 miles.
The new stem made a world of difference, I did not get my low back pain, my position was better in the saddle so my butt was not too sore and my right fore arm did not ache. I thyink we have a winner. In any event the women who runs these rides also is the store manager for one of the LBS, she said to bring the bike over to her house this after noon and she will see if any other changes are needed. She really liked the Sella anatomica saddle , for this ride so did I.

Now after another two weeks and an 80 mile ride yesterday the Tarmac has been qualified to ride a century. Between the new stem and the Sella Anatomica saddle it is quite nice.

I won't ride it in this weekends century but will save it for the Mountainous century in early July. I will ride my Simoncini this weekend but I will be considering fitting it with an SA saddle as well later this summer.

How about some pics of your new setup? I'm having a hard time imagining a Selle Anatomica saddle on a Tarmac. Not saying there's anything wrong with it if it makes the bike work better for you.

BD,

Yea I went to it as a desperation move last summer to try to get the bike to work for me better. I am not ready to go back to my more sporty saddle until I complete the Greylock Century with it as I know this works and I don't want top touch anything on it. I have an E3 Form gel that I will put back on after the ride in early July and then see how it performs. Here is a picture of it with the SA - had posted it about a month ago right after I put the new stem on.


http://lh5.ggpht.com/_2n6FkrWqcFk/S9...k/DSCF0205.jpg

Re hot foot:

I use lace-up shoes, and I find my feet get tight and hot after a while. It's a lot worse if I don't remember to tie my shoes loose at the beginning of a ride.


I do not strap in the first two and only use the top strap and I still have problems. I installed an arch support, no luck. I will try some valgus wedges next as I have a floppy left knee. Barefoot may be next.

I have to go with the fit suggestion as well. With the use of the adjustable stem they can determine just what stem you need as well as where your saddle should be positioned. They can shim the cleat to help with foot position and even give you a different stance on your platform. Turns out my stem was too long and it was causing me to lock my elbows when on the hoods. The group ride tomorrow will be the proof of the pudding but the short ride after my fitting felt a lot better already.