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Usually, I do not post to this type of thread but since I was mentioned.... A’Jet and Luis expressed my sentiments very well. And Chip summed up the trolling embellishing that some feel is a right on BF. I do not need to reinvent the wheel.

With respect different category racers and who can race and who cannot, here is the skinny... It is very hard to get to Category 2. And once you do, you are faced with overwhelming competition from the Pros/Cat 1s and experienced Cat 2s. I was at a presentation and one of the racers walks in and we congratulate him on his recent upgrade to Cat 2. One of the younger Cat 1 men says, “Welcome to hell”. My coach said when you first upgrade to Cat 2 it is a success just to hang on. You have to ask others how the race actually went since you would have no idea. The newly minted Cat 2 is in survival mode and DFL is a reality. The road races are always longer and if there is a hard course with a more difficult climb, the P/1/2 guys do it. Typical road race distances are 100 miles and criterium / circuit race times are 60 to 90 minutes versus 30 to 60 minutes for lower categories.

Having said that, the Cat 3 races are extremely difficult and are populated by several riders who will upgrade to Cat 2 at the end of the season and all are highly skilled. Cat 4 racing is also difficult since there are many who will upgrade to Cat 3 and make the races very hard. The skill level is good. Cat 5 races are for racers starting out where the focus is or should be on learning skills and improving power. The skill level is very sketchy from very good to lousy. There are no upgrade points awarded in Cat 5 races. After 10 mass start races, one can upgrade to Cat 4.

To race effectively in any category takes a lot of very hard training and skill building over a long period of time and significant racing to obtain the skills, power and endurance required to compete.

What is a “full kit” and how does that mean anything? In the world of bike clubs, some are racing and others are touring, social and etc. Some have customized jerseys and others sell a complete line custom designed clothes to meet goals. And there are the jerseys and sometimes matching shorts sold by pro teams. In our area, we have a few Cat 1/2 elite racing teams. These guys have sponsors, get subsidies and must race in a designated amount of races per season and work as a team. My racing club has elite 1/2 men’s and women’s teams with the objective of individuals getting a pro contract. If they are out as a team training together, they have significant fire power. So if you pass one of them while they are rocking a z5 interval, you have done something – I am not even close. We have a significant number of masters racers in our club. They may be Cat1 or 2s but do not race with our elite teams. To support our sponsors who pay significant money to the club, we wear our jerseys to races and generally on the road. There are USCF rules as to what you can wear in a race and you must declare your club when you get the license.

So my question is WTF difference does a full kit mean outside of a sanctioned racing context? Absolutely nothing. Unless you know who the rider is and the riding agenda, passing or being passed is meaningless. When I am riding on the road, I prefer the stronger recreational cyclists, who I do NOT know to be ahead, far behind but not on my wheel or wanting to pull through. I have no interest in being crashed out of an upcoming competition for which I have spent weeks of hard training by some guy who wants to ride with the racers. And I ride with my friends many who do not race but ride for recreation and performance.

All this is interesting but it is to the heart of Op’s point. If a ride has a couple Cat/1/2 racers and some 3s and 4s, the pace can be amazing. There is little difference between a Cat 1 and pro you see on TV other than the top guys have the condition to race in week long stage races and grand tours and a few GCs and some specialists that are truly gifted. So will a rider on a mountain bike or hybrid catch and drop a pack of racers – no. The likely event is that the mountain bike / hybrid rider will be momentarily swarmed by the peloton and then spit out the back. He may post a report about riding with them, their bad manners, lack of waiving or some other nonsense. And this may offer an opportunity to post on an internet board that he caught them and dropped them. All total BS, IMO.

Much like A’jet, I love the competition. I was a runner / cyclist and competed in running races in my 20s and 30s. Running races attract a cast of several hundred to several thousand. When you enter a race, you line up at a marker with a time per mile that you think you can do. There are about 50 to 100 men and or women that line up on the front with low numbers and they compete for the win and placement. When I started to race bicycles, I knew that there is only the top 50 to 100 that show up and they all plan on doing well. In a race of 1000, I would easily make the top 1/3. In a bike race of 50, placement is dubious at best when you first start. And it generally is not in the top 1/3.

Knowing this, I hired a coach and I have been working really hard to improve my cycling which means a lot of suffering and sacrifice. In addition being over 55, I can ride in the Masters 55 + group. However, that is populated by local strongmen who are Cat3 and above and some of the 1/2s ride in the elite P/1/2 open races and do very well. It is hell central where Satan and his angles reside. I have reached a point where I am competitive with this gang and racing / riding with them a lot of fun.

The real story in this thread is OP. He is a total cycling success story starting out riding hybrids and morphing into riding road bikes in a club. Now he is training for his first race. Congrats Robert. Keep up the good work and good luck with your training and racing.

On the internet, discussing passing and dropping is a great pass time whether real or imaginary and beats discussing a colonoscopy any day.:D

There is a very nice looking young lady, in full kit, whom I run across from time to time, on the Fox River Trail System.

I even patched a flat tire for her, once, which is how she came to be introduced.

She usually slows down for a couple miles, and rides (and talks) with me.

After she's rested, she says good bye, and drops me like a hot potato.....

What the heck, it's nice to watch her leave, too!

+1

I went out and put in some miles before an early morning casual ride. The local "fast ride" was out on its 3rd mile or so. I was warmed up and passed em at about 23 mph. I got to the casaul ride and someone asked me about the fast ride. I said "yeah, I caught them and went by at 23". They said "I hear they almost never go under 25". Another guy said "yeah but that is only on the internet".

This morning another bike commuter pulled up next to me at a stoplight; he was riding a bike that I considered buying a year ago but I rejected it because it was too heavy and slow. Light turns green, he blasts off like a rocket. Last I saw of him.

If I even had the stamina to do it without the panniers...

Now, that illustration is FUNNY!

Now, I know what to do with them......

I have a nice bike and a full kit. Perhaps it's me you guys are passing and feeling so strong.
When I'm at 15 mph you ask me about what I'm doing and I say it's a recovery day, it's a lie. I'm going flat out as fast as I can.

Just happy to make your day.

^^^^^
:lol::lol::lol:

I cant add anything to what's been said already. I just keep punishing myself every time I ride and I am getting faster, but it's just not fast enough. Maybe I should take a reality check and say the hell with it.:D

very nice :)

No way! You are extending your life and improving your quality of life.You also give me hope that I can still ride well at your age.

I tell people I'm a V8 engine when I'm on my bike. I neglect to tell them that it's only running on two cylinders! :)

Unless an individual is in exceptional/extraordinary condition any claims to run down a pace line of guys on good road racing steeds on a Surly LHT or a mtb is simply BS. Even if such a person where to stay with a group for a little while wheel sucking as soon as it was their turn to take a pull they would fail and then not to mention that riding a pace line in close proximity to expert cyclists riding the cycling equivalent of a samurai sword and you are riding the cycling equivalent of a chunk of stone, sorry, anyone who claims different is full of it, not going to happen.

Ever heard the old song by Kenny Rogers, "The Gambler?" The lyrics go like this:

"You've got to know when to hold em, when to fold em,
Know when to walk away, and when to run.
You never count your money, when your sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin when the ht dealins done.'


Sometimes, you just gotta take a look at a situation and admit it aint workin' out like you want. Then, decide to do something else.

Ha! I love it! You sure you're not talking about me?

I'm just proud to be on a bike whenever I can be, and wave like an idiot to everyone(the very few) I meet also riding. I am riding much faster average speeds now than when I started, but I'm still at the tailend of every club ride I go on. When I first got back into cycling about 2 years ago, I found myself racing in to work, or trying to go faster and faster wherever I went. Something happened this year, maybe I finally realized with one bad knee and one REALLY bad knee, I'm just not a racer. I'm enjoying the rides more, and riding more. This is true MOST of the time. Then there is the rare day I may barely catch up with and pass someone out for a ride, say a great grandmother on a 40# cruiser or a toddler taking his first ride out of the training wheels. You bet your ass when that day comes I'll report the screaming, blistering, soul-crushing drop I delivered! Would you expect any less?:D

Long ago when Kestrel was "The" hot new great bike the first 2 I saw were being ridden by someone with too much money and not enough time. They were being ridden so slow that if they it almost hurt to see them going so slow.

I'm sure the same kind of thing exists for guys just in full kit. (Hmm, thinking of a bit of crossover, I play Rugby, at practice no one ever shows up in hte current jersey, it is an old jersey and we all look totally mismatched. The current kit is for matches. Might not the same hold for cycling?)

I have caught, briefly talked to and then dropped the woman ranked about #10 in the U.S. at the time. Legit? Heck no, I can legitimately pass her on a downhill if it is not too technical. This was when she had finished a long hard ride and was cooling down. I was just starting an attempt to get in a few fairly flat miles. We both knew it.

I can only once remember being 'caught' by a mountian bike when riding at pace, but it as much illustrates how much most such claims are BS. I was in a paceline of sorts, actually it was a line following a tandem with a very slight downhill grade (Going through Simi Valley). There was a racer on his mountain bike in front of me. He let a gap open. I did not notice quickly enough, once I jumped past him it was too late. But I left him in the dust. He had the legs, he just did not have the gears. T kept trying to recatch the group, eventually I burned out and he caught me just before the rest stop. He was a racer, I was a Prop who rides a bike. And even so he never even thought of passing and dropping me. Again he surely had the legs, he lacked the gears.

When I read such post by some of the people posting such unlikely feats I think of another song. "The Great Pretender" or "Hound Dog" :lol: