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NJ Bike Tax : Bill A3657

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NJ Bike Tax : Bill A3657

Old 01-11-11, 07:10 PM
  #26  
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Duplicate of my post in the Advocacy thread mentioned by OP, follows . . .

My local bike club's forum had a post with the below link to NJ Bike & Walk Coalition. An excerpt "NJBWC is vehemently opposed to this measure for a great number of reasons, as should all of you be also. And we all need to do something quickly to voice our displeasure, both to Assemblywoman Tucker and to your own representatives in both the Assembly and the Senate. Impress upon them both your opposition and your displeasure that your elected representatives are being asked to spend time on something like this with all of the other issues facing our state."


https://www.njbikewalk.org/bike-ped-n...against-it-now

You can contact the Assemblywoman's office by calling 973-926-4920 or by clicking on the link below and sending an email:

https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/members/BIO.asp?Leg=285

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Old 01-11-11, 07:32 PM
  #27  
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Basic principles of American government:

If it works, tax it.
If it doesn't work, subsidize it.
If it's just barely scraping along, dump Barney Frank into the middle of it.

Bikes are healthy and remove cars from the road, which prolongs road life, reducing the need for tax increases, stimulus money, oil dependency and the like.
Because in principle and in practice it's a good idea and a constructive thing to do, it must be taxed.

Take the money and subsidize the obesity epidemic: Fat people need bigger ambulances.

Exactly where Barney Frank fits in all of this, I don't know.
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Old 01-11-11, 08:18 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by The Weak Link View Post
Basic principles of American government:

If it works, tax it.
If it doesn't work, subsidize it.
If it's just barely scraping along, dump Barney Frank into the middle of it.

Bikes are healthy and remove cars from the road, which prolongs road life, reducing the need for tax increases, stimulus money, oil dependency and the like.
Because in principle and in practice it's a good idea and a constructive thing to do, it must be taxed.

Take the money and subsidize the obesity epidemic: Fat people need bigger ambulances.

Exactly where Barney Frank fits in all of this, I don't know.
TWL: I disagree with you, but I smile when I read most all of your posts.
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Old 01-11-11, 08:33 PM
  #29  
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"Vehicles and gasoline are taxed in large part because maintenance of roads costs the state money."

This is true. However, I'm willing to bet that in most states, the vast bulk of expenditures to maintain roads come from the general fund, and not vehicle and gas taxes. And people who ride bikes don't cause the wear and tear on roads that cars do; riding a bike saves money on road maintenance.
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Old 01-11-11, 09:00 PM
  #30  
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Christie would never sign it...
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Old 01-11-11, 09:10 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Metric Man View Post
Christie would never sign it...
... 'cos he's never here ...
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Old 01-11-11, 09:31 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by icyclist View Post
I'm willing to bet that in most states, the vast bulk of expenditures to maintain roads come from the general fund, and not vehicle and gas taxes. And people who ride bikes don't cause the wear and tear on roads that cars do; riding a bike saves money on road maintenance.
I don't know the statistics about road costs vs. vehicular taxes, but I don't doubt that you are right. Similarly, putative bicycle taxes might not cover the costs of bike-related infrastructure. It's true that cycling to work or around town reduces car traffic, but lots of cycling (and most that many of us do) is recreational and has little effect on traffic. But I sure appreciate it when I'm riding on a road with a bike lane or with wide shoulders and those cost more money to build and maintain than a road designed only for cars. I also really enjoy the extensive and ever-growing network of bicycle trails (including bike-specific overpasses) in my community. I'd be willing to contribute if there were a fair and practical way to tax my usage. Cyclists promote state expenditures on bicycle-friendly public works (and they should). It is not wrong for the state to see cyclists also as a source of revenue to defray those costs. Except for the practical aspects of how the tax (or fee) is collected, I see it as similar to paying for entry to a state park or buying a fishing license.

One could take a different perspective and say that the costs of bicycle-related expenditures (tiny as they are) should come from general state funds, and therefore from sales taxes or income taxes. That's ok, but in a time when states are bleeding red ink all over the place, it would not be a bad thing for bicyclists' interests if they were also a revenue source.

I know that most of you disagree with my opinion and I'm not going to get upset by contrary views - I'm just giving you my point of view.

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Old 01-11-11, 09:32 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by ThatBritBloke View Post
... 'cos he's never here ...
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Old 01-11-11, 09:58 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
This may be an unpopular position, but I'd support a bicycle tax if it were dedicated to improvement of bike lanes and MUPs, purchase of rights-of way for additional trails, etc,. Vehicles and gasoline are taxed in large part because maintenance of roads costs the state money. It's fair to ask cyclists to contribute if the state dedicates resources to bike-related infrastructure.
Nowhere in the proposed bill does it suggest anything about appropriating funds for anything that benefits cyclists. The fees are meant for "defraying costs of registering the bicycles." IMO its just plain dumb, BUT, I still like New Jersey.
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Old 01-12-11, 05:10 AM
  #35  
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What will they think of next? A Bill requiring cyclists to have insurance?
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Old 01-12-11, 06:09 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by miss kenton View Post
Nowhere in the proposed bill does it suggest anything about appropriating funds for anything that benefits cyclists. The fees are meant for "defraying costs of registering the bicycles." IMO its just plain dumb, BUT, I still like New Jersey.
Basically it's a tax whose purpose is to defray the cost of collecting the tax ... there is no reference to using the revenue for improving facilities for cyclists or any other road user.

Provision for cycling should come out of the general road fund. This is because facilities for cyclists improve the lot of all road users.

Besides, I would guess there are very few cyclists who don't also own a car. In the UK the incidence of car ownership amongst recreational and sporting cyclists is actually higher than the general qualifying population.
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Old 01-12-11, 07:39 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
This may be an unpopular position, but I'd support a bicycle tax if it were dedicated to improvement of bike lanes and MUPs, purchase of rights-of way for additional trails, etc,. Vehicles and gasoline are taxed in large part because maintenance of roads costs the state money. It's fair to ask cyclists to contribute if the state dedicates resources to bike-related infrastructure.
The assumption being that all cyclists use them? That's just not true. Besides, if you think vehicle taxes and gas taxes pay for road maintenence, you need to do more homework.
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Old 01-13-11, 04:20 AM
  #38  
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Here in Hawaii we have a state wide bicycle registration law. It is a $15 one time registration and it is a decal that you are supposed to affix to the seat tube (one of my bikes doesn't have a seat tube so I put it on the rear mud guard). The money collected is restricted to a bike-way fund. I don't object to this, we are road users so it is fair to tax us. $15.00 one time fee seems quite reasonable to me. Here the police don't fine you, they just confiscate your bicycle. BTW, when I lived in NJ back in the '70s the town I lived in, Montclair, did require bicycle licenses. I don't think it makes sense on a municipal level but it does on a state wide level. Is the $10 in NJ going to be an annual fee or is it a one-time fee? We used to have to renew our licenses every two years and that was a nuisance so I'm glad we got it changed to a one-time fee.
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Old 01-13-11, 04:25 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by BlazingPedals View Post
Bike registration schemes have never worked in the States.
Hawaii has been a state since 1959. Our bicycle registration law goes back to the monarchy. It works just fine. It is a source of irritation to us here in the 50th state when people ignore the fact that we are a state.
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Old 01-13-11, 05:17 AM
  #40  
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A scheme like this is probably easier to manage / rationalise when you're an island State. If I ride west of where I live I bump into cyclists from PA; if I ride east they're from NYC. They'll be riding freely on NJ roads whereas I'll be taxed for the privilege.

BTW: otherwise I like NJ ;-)
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Old 01-13-11, 06:43 AM
  #41  
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If bikes are vehicles and not toys, and if cyclists are responsible for all traffic laws, and if cyclists expect respect from police and to get road and signal improvements, why shouldn't there be registration, as with cars? Not that I'd like the expense, if Michigan was to move this way.

And if we say these benefits are already covered in taxes, why shouldn't cars go free, too?

Are we really paying our way, for the added road features we want as cyclists?

But, I don't know what the pro argument is in New Jersey.
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Old 01-13-11, 07:24 AM
  #42  
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Florida on several occasions has attempted to establish the requirement to register man-powered craft such as canoes and kayaks. Each time the outcry was sufficient to kill it. The canoe club located in the state capital and linked to the other clubs through out the state led the charge each time.

There are far more cyclists than paddlers, hopefully that will happen in NJ.

I would think a petition directly to Christie would go a long way. He should be against such foolishness.

I would add that some of us owned as many as a dozen boats. That would be a major financial burden. Then there's the time it takes to attach a new sticker each year.

Paddlers like cyclists don't cause road or river damage that need maintenance or repair. The government spends $B fighting sedentary caused diseases like obesity and they want to create disincentives for cycling?

Every mountain bike trail I ride is maintained by the local bike clubs. The ones I ride in Florida were built by the local club as well.

Every canoe club that I've had membership (4) did river clean-ups. We were picking up trash from those reistered motor boats. The state doesn't do that kind of river work.

Al

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Old 01-13-11, 10:45 AM
  #43  
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The bill, and it's author, have been ridiculed into submission by public opinion, it has been withdrawn. Cleopatra was last seen floating on her barge in Newark Bay...
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Old 01-13-11, 10:50 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by akohekohe View Post
Hawaii has been a state since 1959. Our bicycle registration law goes back to the monarchy. It works just fine. It is a source of irritation to us here in the 50th state when people ignore the fact that we are a state.
Hawai'i? Never heard of it.
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Old 01-13-11, 12:07 PM
  #45  
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Bill proposal withdrawn . . .

Originally Posted by Bare Feet View Post
What will they think of next? A Bill requiring cyclists to have insurance?
Please don't give them any ideas.

There is some good news today from NJ, it looks like Assemblywoman Tucker has withdrawn her proposal . . .

https://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201..._proposed.html
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Old 01-13-11, 06:49 PM
  #46  
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As I've mentioned before, the idea of making cyclists have registrations and licenses was tossed about the MA legislature back in the bike boom of the 70s. More and more adults were buying bikes and using them a lot, and the MA legislature, always on the lookout for easy money, took notice. Luckily, it never made it beyond the talking phases and died off. All those legislators are long gone. (New nitwits have taken their places.) But, vigilance is important. This NJ legislator had a "spur of the moment" idea that could have actually gone somewhere. Remember the Texas legislator who wanted to have all cyclists wear those "slow moving vehicle" signs on their backs? What on earth are these people smoking?

In MA, it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk in zoned business districts. Does NJ have this, and wouldn't it make more sense to enforce existing safety laws?

Just speculating...
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Old 01-13-11, 08:00 PM
  #47  
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Please stop this tax - if it passes and NY hears about it they will do the same thing, however the tax will be higher because NY prides itself for being the most highly taxed state in the country.
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Old 01-13-11, 08:23 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
This may be an unpopular position, but I'd support a bicycle tax if it were dedicated to improvement of bike lanes and MUPs, purchase of rights-of way for additional trails, etc,. Vehicles and gasoline are taxed in large part because maintenance of roads costs the state money. It's fair to ask cyclists to contribute if the state dedicates resources to bike-related infrastructure.
Don't buy into this trap, I race motorcycles and ask someone from California what happened to their fee for off road registration that was supposed to be used for trail improvement and expanding land use by acquisitions. Got raided and emptied to use in a futile attempt to balance an already wrecked budget. We had the same scenario happen in Florida with our off road motorcycle registration fees, we were promised dedicated motorsport off road parks being acquired and maintained.

To date none have been built or land purchased. Then the state raided this fund to attempt a budget balance. Both state governors made empty promises that the funds would be replaced. Both states fiscal problems are larger than ever and now they say the funds are gone and cutbacks on what maintenance was being done is not allowed.

No way I would let any level of government get into a fee for use registration for my bicycles.

Bill
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Old 01-14-11, 06:17 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by leob1 View Post
Cleopatra was last seen floating on her barge in Newark Bay...
Good one. How about floating with a batter powered boom box blaring out Rap music.
To those who thought this was a "good" idea, look at where the money was going to go, nothing to support cycling. The whole idea was brought on by a group of senior citizens, (you know the 60+ crowd) who claim they were roughed up by some cyclists. The expectation was that by having a license plate they would report the bicycle plate number when these events occurred. It was killed because it was almost impossible to enforce with kids who ride bikes. You know, the one's who rough up seniors.

If a tax went to cycling lanes, MTB trails and rails to trails I would support it, but they didn't even bother to lie to us and say that's what it was for. We've all seen tax money go to politician's pockets and ill conceived programs that accomplish nothing. I'm glad it died, it's just another political excuse to get money and provide nothing.
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Old 01-14-11, 07:11 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by roccobike View Post
Good one. How about floating with a batter powered boom box blaring out Rap music.
To those who thought this was a "good" idea, look at where the money was going to go, nothing to support cycling. The whole idea was brought on by a group of senior citizens, (you know the 60+ crowd) who claim they were roughed up by some cyclists. The expectation was that by having a license plate they would report the bicycle plate number when these events occurred. It was killed because it was almost impossible to enforce with kids who ride bikes. You know, the one's who rough up seniors.

If a tax went to cycling lanes, MTB trails and rails to trails I would support it, but they didn't even bother to lie to us and say that's what it was for. We've all seen tax money go to politician's pockets and ill conceived programs that accomplish nothing. I'm glad it died, it's just another political excuse to get money and provide nothing.
Not a single person here said that the proposed NJ tax was a good idea. Several here said something akin to what you just said: *IF* the tex went to cycling lanes, etc., we would support it.
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