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Isn't anyone outraged by what Cavendish said today?

Old 02-10-11, 11:24 PM
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Isn't anyone outraged by what Cavendish said today?

If you've been following the sickening developments in the world of doping, you may have seen that Italian pro Riccardo Ricco nearly killed himself this week by botching a transfusion of his own blood ("blood doping"). Since he's been caught before, and promised to clean up, lots of folks are jumping on Ricco for being an unrepentant doper.

Fair enough, I guess.

But today Mark Cavendish piles on, and says that he hopes Ricco goes to prison, and, more specifically, "I really do hope he becomes someone's ***** in prison."

(exact quote here):
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/oth...n-scandal.html

So, I may be a bit out of touch with current slang, but I would read this to mean that he hopes that Ricco is ***** in prison. In any other walk of life -- really, even any another sport -- Cavendish would be castigated for making such a statement.

But from what I see via various searches tonight, most people are laughing at Cavendish, or even applauding him for speaking his mind.

I just can't imagine any other situation where that kind of sentiment would be accepted. Can you imagine anyone saying that about a female athlete?

I don't know what's worse -- the rampant, continuous string of doping scandals in the sport, or the fact that apparently to fellow athletes and the cycling press it's OK to use that kind of language about another athlete.

Seems like a completely broken sport if you ask me.

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Old 02-10-11, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BengeBoy View Post
If you've been following the sickening developments in the world of doping, you may have seen that Italian pro Riccardo Ricco nearly killed himself this week by botching a transfusion of his own blood ("blood doping"). Since he's been caught before, and promised to clean up, lots of folks are jumping on Ricco for being an unrepentant doper.

Fair enough, I guess.

But today Mark Cavendish piles on, and says that he hopes Ricco goes to prison, and, more specifically, "I really do hope he becomes someone's ***** in prison."

(exact quote here):
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/oth...n-scandal.html

So, I may be a bit of touch with current slang, but I would read this to mean that he hopes that Ricco is ***** in prison. In any other walk of life -- really, even any another sport -- Cavendish would be castigated for making such a statement.

But from what I see via various searches tonight, most people are laughing at Cavendish, or even applauding him for speaking his mind.

I just can't imagine any other situation where that kind of sentiment would be accepted. Can you imagine anyone saying that about a female athlete?

I don't know what's worse -- the rampant, continuous string of doping scandals in the sport, or the fact that apparently to fellow athletes and the cycling press it's OK to use that kind of language about another athlete.

Seems like a completely broken sport if you ask me.
I don't know what your problem is. Assuming Cavendish is clean, he is expressing the frustration of all his clean colleauges who are trying to get the sport on track as far as doping is concerned, that someone who has been caught before continues to let the cause down.

Cavendish's language might seem to you to be too strong, and maybe you are taking it way too literally. But sometimes it's the only way for the message to get through to some people.

Trust me on this... people with an excuse for a brain often only understand the most basic of language skills, and that often includes a lot of this sort of expression.

By the way, far from being a broken sport, I think road cycling is going from strength to strength, with tours now being held in countries with top-line riders that would have never hosted such events a decade ago. We've had the privilege here of the world road racing champs and the Tour Down Under in the past six months... and it's all been great fun.
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Old 02-11-11, 04:55 AM
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I was just amazed that Riccardo Ricco could be that STUPID! What the h&*% are these guys thinking? I am so tired of hearing about doping in professional cycling. It's gotten to the point that you can't trust what anyone says anymore. I don't blame Cavendish for saying what he did. I feel the same way. What angers me the most is what affect these doppers have on all the clean cyclists. Can you imagine? You're suspected of being a doper because of dirt bags like Ricco, Landis, Hamilton, Pantani, Riis, and perhaps Contador?
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Old 02-11-11, 06:04 AM
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So, here's what upsets me.

Right now Ricco is a "convenient villain." Everyone can jump on him because he's now an outcast and subject to criticism and ridicule, even in the vilest terms. So cyclists who hardly utter a peep when other cyclists are tested positive now step up to the plate and take turns whacking Ricco.

But Contador gets a one-year ban, instead of two? And there are still people buying the "I ate it in my steak" defense? And LA gets away with publicly punishing people who take a stand against doping, during a race, and nobody in the peloton bats an eye (at least publicly)?

To me, the sport is broken. The last person to win the Tour de France who was indisputably clean was who? And when?

And are they really serious about testing, even in the sport's biggest events?

Good background:
https://velonews.competitor.com/2011/...olorado_159552

I read this cover to cover last fall, even the footnotes; was surprised how many holes that still exist in the testing program;
https://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/Wo...TDF2010_EN.pdf

If the "clean" cyclists would express more outrage over the need to fix the holes in the current testing process I'd find their condemnation of Ricco more credible. For now, he's just the easy target.

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Old 02-11-11, 06:32 AM
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Not a great comment by Cav, but no, I'm not outraged.
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Old 02-11-11, 06:55 AM
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Fairly or unfairly, they're all dopers in my mind. We only know about the ones being caught, the ones who don't scrupulously follow the team doctor's drug regimen. Happily, although bicycle racing is broken, bicycling is not.
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Old 02-11-11, 06:58 AM
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Benge,
I agree that Cavendish's statement is too much but not totally out of the realm of his statements. Not Cavendish's first over top statement or action. Will not be his last, either. He says what is on his mind first then lets the **** hit the fan. I think he is just being emotional in his reaction but if Ricco did actually do the deed he needs to be expelled from bicycle racing for life. So do several others but, that is just one man's opinion and no one actually ever asks me anyway.

The sport needs a top to bottom cleaning and no exceptions should be granted. Regardless of who gets burned by the investigation, right up to Lance Armstrong, if he is found to be guilty, needs to be gone for life. The team managers and sponsors all share in covering this disgrace up as do the professional cycling governing bodies. I have more respect for amateur racers in US Cycling category racing and the European and Australian amateur riders than a lot of the pros. However I don't kid myself that all of the amateur racers are totally clean, either.

I watched the steroid use in football and weight lifting when I was younger and in these sports. It all turns my stomach.

Bill

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Old 02-11-11, 06:59 AM
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which clean cyclists? Even Cav has to make it to the finish line before the time limit is up (for example in the TdF). Think he does that on pasta and water? Cav uses strong language to try and distance himself from the prevalent doping going on. He isn't upset because he doesn't dope, but because any talk of doping puts all pro cyclists under pressure and fear of even tighter controls.
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Old 02-11-11, 07:08 AM
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One of the major problems today is that portals to express opinions are easily available to a great number of people. It seems that anyone can express his or her opinion without any more basis for that opinion than it is what they feel. If you are getting your information by doing searches on the Internet, then you must be willing to judge the source of the information. Perhaps one of the most frustrating thing for me as an instructor at both the graduate and under graduate level is that too many students attend and give credence to things they read on line that are little more than the opinionated view of someone with a serious bias, and who has done little to examine the bias to determine it's source, let alone if it's really worth holding.

What Cavendish said seems to be mean spirited, surely not sensitive, not politically astute, and perhaps even hypocritical. Who knows what was really going on in his mind. The fact that others on line find it amusing or support his comments, to me, is simply testament to the fact that as a species we've not yet evolved as far as we might like to believe.

What I find especially curious is that Cavendish himself has been sanctioned for violations of rules. While many would argue that the seriousness of his violations were of a lesser degree, it seems he is not above doing what he deems he must to win.

Generally, when someone says something as misguided as his statement was about Ricco I ignore it and wonder why we would be interested in taking such rantings seriously.
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Old 02-11-11, 07:13 AM
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No.
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Old 02-11-11, 07:32 AM
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If you (Cavendish) are going to make a statement like that you had better be clean and I mean squeaky clean Karma can be a bi@#$ some times. It is really sad that pro cycling has fallen so far.
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Old 02-11-11, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by NOS88 View Post
One of the major problems today is that portals to express opinions are easily available to a great number of people. It seems that anyone can express his or her opinion without any more basis for that opinion than it is what they feel. If you are getting your information by doing searches on the Internet, then you must be willing to judge the source of the information. Perhaps one of the most frustrating thing for me as an instructor at both the graduate and under graduate level is that too many students attend and give credence to things they read on line that are little more than the opinionated view of someone with a serious bias, and who has done little to examine the bias to determine it's source, let alone if it's really worth holding.

What Cavendish said seems to be mean spirited, surely not sensitive, not politically astute, and perhaps even hypocritical. Who knows what was really going on in his mind. The fact that others on line find it amusing or support his comments, to me, is simply testament to the fact that as a species we've not yet evolved as far as we might like to believe.

What I find especially curious is that Cavendish himself has been sanctioned for violations of rules. While many would argue that the seriousness of his violations were of a lesser degree, it seems he is not above doing what he deems he must to win.

Generally, when someone says something as misguided as his statement was about Ricco I ignore it and wonder why we would be interested in taking such rantings seriously.
NOS, +1000

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Old 02-11-11, 07:53 AM
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The real outrage is that's it's apparently common in prison's and it's allowed to continue. The second outrage is that the doping is diminishing the sport, especially in the US. The Euro street kind of expects it and it doesn't tarnish a rider's following for long.

Free speech like this doesn't bother me all that much.

Al
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Old 02-11-11, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by kjc9640 View Post
If you (Cavendish) are going to make a statement like that you had better be clean and I mean squeaky clean Karma can be a bi@#$ some times.
I agree. As long as Cavendish is clean, it could represent the continual frustration of racing against those who are cheating.

For Ricco it was an incredibly stupid (or even more desperate?) thing to do.

As for the sport, do we really know when doping became rampant?
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Old 02-11-11, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by az_cyclist View Post
As for the sport, do we really know when doping became rampant?
Try this ... 1886 apparently.
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Old 02-11-11, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by alcanoe View Post
The real outrage is that's it's apparently common in prison's and it's allowed to continue. The second outrage is that the doping is diminishing the sport, especially in the US. The Euro street kind of expects it and it doesn't tarnish a rider's following for long.

Free speech like this doesn't bother me all that much.

Al
+1

That comment coming from a bike racer I write off as an emotional outburst worthy of ignoring. If that comment were made by a prison warden or someone in a position to do something about prison conditions, it would be an outrage.
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Old 02-11-11, 09:24 AM
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"If you've been following the sickening developments in the world of doping...Seems like a completely broken sport if you ask me."

I dunno, if the sport is completely broken, why follow it? Isn't that like complaining about doping in dog-fighting or pro wrestling? Evidently, pro cycling's been like that forever and ever; if you're looking for a "clean" sport to follow, look elsewhere.

The basic problem is that if you have unreasonable awards for performance, then you're going to have people willing to do unreasonable things to achieve those awards. You can have whatever system of drug testing you want, but if there's any way to get around it, people will. Remove the fame and the big money and you might get back to a cleaner sport.
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Old 02-11-11, 10:14 AM
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If pro cycling, a sport trying to do something about its entrenched PED problem, is broken, then what is the NFL or Baseball?
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Old 02-11-11, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by NOS88 View Post

What Cavendish said seems to be mean spirited, surely not sensitive, not politically astute, and perhaps even hypocritical. Who knows what was really going on in his mind. The fact that others on line find it amusing or support his comments, to me, is simply testament to the fact that as a species we've not yet evolved as far as we might like to believe.

Generally, when someone says something as misguided as his statement was about Ricco I ignore it and wonder why we would be interested in taking such rantings seriously.

NOS88,

Given your field of work. Would it be accurate to state that an individual's view of the world around them and how they respond to certain things is usually the result of their experiences in life. Are we products of our experiences in matters such as this?

E. Ogre
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Old 02-11-11, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by StephenH View Post
Remove the fame and the big money and you might get back to a cleaner sport.
I doubt it - people are known to dope in local amateur races.
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Old 02-11-11, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
If pro cycling, a sport trying to do something about its entrenched PED problem, is broken, then what is the NFL or Baseball?
They're just better at covering it up.

SP
Bend, OR
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Old 02-11-11, 10:36 AM
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Doping, 'roids, and all the other enhancements have been around longer than us and they're here to stay - in every sport, not just cycing. I think it's part of competitiveness of sport, in a way - i.e. every time drug testers find a new way to detect, athletes and their "trainers" find a new way to hide an enhancement.
If it torques you, then don't watch. But don't be naive to think that anyone is "clean" in any sport.
Kinda like thinking the pretty, innocent-looking girl in the bar is a virgin
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Old 02-11-11, 10:41 AM
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Anyone who follows US politics, (or US televangelists), knows it is the ones who most loudly condemn a behaviour, that are the most likely to be secretly engaging in it.
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Old 02-11-11, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Whiteknight View Post
NOS88,

Given your field of work. Would it be accurate to state that an individual's view of the world around them and how they respond to certain things is usually the result of their experiences in life. Are we products of our experiences in matters such as this?

E. Ogre
I would agree it is a major factor. Yet, I consistently see people move beyond the world view in which they were raised. Expansion of world view often changes the nature and quality of the experience one has. Applied to the situation with Cavendish, I would wonder what his statement reflects in terms of world view. I think one of the presuppositions is that being jailed and ***** is a negative thing. I think another would be that Ricco deserves punishment. It would appear that he believes doping is an infraction worthy of punishment. What I don't know is where he stands in terms of punishment for other infractions, or if he really believes the level of punishment should be what he stated. That's one of the major problems with thinking before you speak. Your old tapes from earlier world views may over ride what you really believe.
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Old 02-11-11, 12:09 PM
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I didn't think of it as offensive when taken in the spirit in which it was meant.
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