Install it? Me??? ;~D

I did all the work on both of the bikes I installed low gearing on. It's kind of fun, actually. I save a ton of money working on my bikes and computers.

I'm glad we no longer live in an era where women are frowned upon for doing stuff like that, otherwise I'd probably be getting in plenty of arguments with people who tried to talk smack:p

What you might want to consider is a second rear wheel, with the larger cassette. You could swap out wheels depending on what sort of day you are expecting. Saves going too extreme with your bike, and you could try it out at first by just getting the new cassette - if you like it but feel that you want a faster wheel for the flatter days, get the second wheel and toss the old cassette on it.

I was nodding my head so hard I almost hurt my neck!!!

That's exactly what I'm going to do, yes!

Looking at the stats on the climb you posted and mapping out the elevation gain and grades this looks like a good place to train for hills. You have a mile of close to 8% at the end. From your video it appears you did a good job with it, you were not left for dead and you kept the bike moving. Nothing to be ashamed of.

The new cassette will make the climb easier - I hope you enjoy it. Start training with it. I find good hills to train on are at least 1000' of vertical over about 2.5 to 3 miles, start at the bottom, ride to the top and do it all over again. Hill repeats are a good way to build both mental and physical strength, you need to tell yourself - that wasn't so bad, lets do it again!

There is a nice hill I can drive to (about 15 miles away) with 1400' of vertical over 3.5 miles that I usually start training on later in the spring, 4 laps on that and I am ready for a beer and a nice dinner.

IMO and experience, lower gearing will not make you faster up the hill. The climb speed is a function of the power produced. A lower gear may be easier if you climb slower and produce less power.

I agree the climb in the video is not that difficult but that is in the eyes of the beholder and the speed one climbs.

An 11/28 cassette will offer more options while climbing and offer the opportunity to train at different cadences. I climb at low cadence to build strength and muscle recruitment and higher cadence to build cardio. The speed of ascent in both cases may be the same. Now, climbing at higher cadence may result in less accumulated fatigue when you get to the top and seems easier on my back and knees. So I prefer to climb at a faster cadence. YMMV

Have to agree with Hermes. Fitting lower gearing WILL make you slower on the hills. But if you need lower you need lower. My problem is that if Gravity goes the wrong way- then I will find the lowest gear and once there--I stay there. I don't get out of crawler gear till the road flattens out appreciably.

I ride MTB- and road with a triple and a Compact. MTB up our steepest road hill and I am in 22/32. Road triple and I am in 30/27 and it is no harder- but is faster. Road Compact with 34/27 and I might puff a bit more but I manage it and faster again. For me the higher gearing of the compact is not more painfull than the triple so I do prefer the gearing of the compact. However- long hilly rides and it will the triple by choice. I like the confidence of having low gears but try not to use them.

Go to your LBS and have them install SRAM Apex-in-a-box. Get the 34 - 50 compact with the 11-32 cassette (do not get the 12 - 32 because there is a HUGE jump from 24t cog to the 32t cog while the 11 - 32 has a 28 - 32 jump). Get cranks NO LONGER than 170. Maybe even shorter if you have short legs. This will ALSO help with climbing. You can also go UP one grade to SRAM Rival with the Mid-Cage derailleur and 11 - 32 cassette. A lot of people forget about the length of the crank arm and how important that is. They talk all day about compact cranks and rear cassettes and FAIL to mention the length of the crank arms.

But longer cranks mean less effort is needed at the pedal, with the longer lever arm. Short cranks could be helpful for short legs, though. In any case, the difference in common lengths, 165 to 175 is only about 6%.

No.

The Sram PG-1070 12-32 includes: 12,13,14,15,17,19,22,25,28,32. See: http://www.competitivecyclist.com/pr...3347.22.1.html

The 11-32 includes: 11,12,13,14,16,18,21,24,28,32. The 12-32 provides a tighter range.

Also, The OP already has a Shimano Ultegra compact crankset, the Apex compact would be a down-grade.

Michael

I agree with that but I can't sustain a fast cadence on a hard climb for long - my HR gets too high. If I can keep a cadence between 60 and 70 I can climb pretty comfortably on a long hill, lower and I am struggling, higher and I wear out. On a short climb I can spin over it. On rolling terrain I keep an 80 - 90 cadence. As Hermes say YMMV, each of us is a little different. I usually spin fast at the top to kick the lactic acid out of my legs.

I'm working on getting my cadence back on the hills but as we age it gets tougher to spin into resistance. Add a few extra pounds to the equation and it is even harder. When I'm climbing at my best, I start at a manageable pace/power at the bottom of the climb and build to the top. That works best for me.

At 6'3" I've use crank lengths from 172.5 to 177.5. I could tell the difference in each but use 175 now. I wouldn't go back to a 172.5 for the road but might consider the longer 177.5 again at some point. The 175 seems to work ok as a middle ground. According to Zinn though I should be using a much longer crank near 190. IDK about that.

Hi Barrettscv - Your hybrid setup is intriguing to me as I contemplate mods to my XRP Cion road bike in preparation for the Markleeville Death Ride this July. I recently switched out my Ultgra double crankset for a FSA compact double 50/34, and still have a 105 12-27 10 spd RC to help me up those long mountain passes. I'm finding though I would still like to step the gearing a few notches lower and am now toying with the idea of mounting a 11-34 Shimano Deore XT RC and the Shimano XT RD. I've got a new SRAM 10psd chain, and I imagine I'll need to add some links to provide sufficient chain length. From the little I've described above, can you see any problems with giving this a try? I've got a spare Vuelta wheelset that I'm thinking to mount the mountain cassette on, enabling me to switch from my present 12-27 to the 11-34 as needed in my training runs up until the July event. I'd appreciate any feedback you and others might provide.

Good stuff! I have a couple of responses.

First, the 11-28 is on the way. I put Easton EA90 Aeros on the bike yesterday, which are appreciably lighter than the Fulcrum 7's. I haven't ridden it yet - later today I will. The 11-28t won't be here until next week, and I'll swap the 12-25t off the Easton rear for the 12-28t then, putting the 11-25t on the Fulcrum rear for a spare.

I can't begin to afford a new gruppo, so that's out! I don't know how much that would really help me, anyway. I have thought about crank arm length, though, and they're 170mm on my Ultegra/Look. My M500 MB has 170mm crank arms (Shimano Exage) or what ever, and I can really spin those, BUT even for me, at 5'4", they seem too short! BTW, my B2 TT bike has a SRAM chainring/crank (172.5mm cranks) on it, a 55/42, but it's a 650c and it's easy to spin. So - I've been able to try the different gearing/crank arm length, and I'm petty much optimal with the Ultegra SL compact 50-34 on my Look - for me.

Spinning and climbing - I can NOT. In the lowest gear, on the steepest grade, I am standing and turning over at 35 - 40 RPM, doing 4 - 5 MPH. I have to stand or I stop. I work better sitting, and don't lactate up, but my power drops off. When I stand, I have to keep the cadence down when the effort goes up or I literally flood with lactic acid. I can do that, but it is slow, and I am last up the hill. But - I can do it. My thinking, now after all the responses to my OP, is the 28t would allow me to NOT have to stand and help keep my cadence higher and maybe climb a little faster.

Oh - on the flats and inclines my cadence is 88 to 100. Normal? I guess so.

Hi TR,

Your planned set-up should install and operate perfectly. You might need a new & longer chain, not only for the larger cog but also for the longer arm on the derailleur.

You should be able to switch wheels as planned without any adjustment of the derailleur, both hubs and cassettes should be built to the same standard.

The Shimano MTB cassette has large jumps in cadence between every shift. This is not a problem when heading up-hill or down-hill, but the 12, 14 and 16 cogs will be missed on flatter sections. However, staying on the big ring and using the 17-19-21-23-26 cogs from 13 to 22 mph on flatter sections is a good range and a good use of this gear-set.

I’ve provided a chart for your current gearing and the new wide range;

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...2-27v11-34.png

Ahhh, the Death Ride! Legendary! Good luck on that ride, I hear it's spectacular.

Since you are trying to race up Whiteface, I will offer the following. Cadence discussions are a fools errand. There are experts such as Andy Coggan who claims that it makes no difference. There are my former Russian coaches, who coached the Belarus National team who says it is important and last years coach for whom I could not spin fast enough.

After 3 years of coaching, training and racing, what I have found is that there are 3 types of cadence - self selected, fast and slow. When one is in an event, one self selects the cadence. Your mind is focused on the event and other things and the brain takes over driving you to what is habit. Training is a different matter. If one self selects cadence in training, there are plateaus.

Back to climbing... If one self selects 60 to 70 rpm for climbing then low cadence is approximately 10% less and high cadence 10% more. Training is about variation. So one day, climb at 50 rpm and work on strength. These can be shorter intervals at various power levels. Some days work on high cadence and climb at 80 rpm to work on cardio. Choose the interval and power level. Remember, one can always elect to self select a lower cadence but one has to train to spin faster. Training is about working on limiters. I very seldom just ride and self select cadence. That is consistent with Coggan, the Russian and my other coach. Training is about very hard work and constantly challenging yourself so that you do not plateau. Good luck with your training for Whiteface.

That is what I do Hermes. If I self selected my climbing cadence it would be about 70. On my training rides I do intervals at 50rpm and like yesterday at 90rpm. For me to hold 90 though the grade can't be more than 5%, preferably 4%. I do the same on the flats and find that over time, my self selected cadence rises from an early season low 70s to the mid 80s where it is now. I'd like to get it to the mid 90s on the flats but that will take more work. The terrain around here limits the absolute cadence average on a ride but generally I'm working on spinning more throughout the ride.

I've been doing this coach-prescribed workout periodically:

Warm up as you ride to a Hill of steady or varying grades which takes at least 3 minutes to climb - All repeats in zones 4+ ,. cadence 70-75 rpm unless otherwise restricted by gearing or grade!!! #1 all seated, #2 alternate between in/out of the saddle every 15 -20 seconds. #3 seated for 1:30 standing for 1:30. #4 Climb any way you like - (longer recovery after #4) #5 all seated, #6 all standing

Note the mix between standing and sitting. I believe that is very important, as you clearly exercise both different muscles, and different skills, when standing and sitting. Doing the 3 minute climb OTS is, for me, still tortuous, but it is getting easier. I wanted desperately to sit down the first time. In fact, don't tell Coach, but I did briefly. Sarals, I suspect that what you are feeling when you stand is merely a result of the fact that you are using muscles that haven't yet been developed as much as the muscles you use when sitting. I believe this kind of workout would help you. As Hermes said, you need to build up the underlying strength, and you do that by cranking hard at relatively low cadence. It's the cycling equivalent of lifting weights.

Here is another workout Coach has given me. It's hard to find an appropriate route for it here in Phoenix:

FIND A HILLY 75-90 MIN ROUTE... On a course with long & short hills. On long climbs stay in the saddle at HR zones 3-4. ATTACK very short hills at zones 4+- THIS MEANS OUT OF THE SADDLE IF NECESSARY.

When Coach uses all caps, it means I better pay attention. :-) This is what she considers a "loosely structured workout", and it mirrors the efforts I face in road race situations.

This is why I bought a triple when I got my road bike last summer, and why I put the super-low gears on it and my hybrid. There is NO WAY I will attempt the 13%-19% grades I like to climb with a double. I'm the same height as you and 22 pounds heavier than you, so I need all the help I can get:p If I stand too much I wear myself out. I don't know if you watched the video I posted earlier in this thread, but I was seated the whole time, probably going 3-4 mph on the steepest parts of the hill (13% to 17%). In fact, here's the Garmin data from that ride: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/78514622. If you go to the player that climb is right before the 10 mile marker. You can see my slow progress that way:p

This is exactly how I ride hills. I cannot hammer up a hill, standing, for more than a minute or two. I might gain 2 mph over a very short distance, but I will pay for it later-in-the-day during a 100 mile or 200k ride. It's just not worth it.

I like staying in the 50 to 80 cadence range while climbing at 4 to 7 mph when the grade is more than 12%. I can climb a short 22% grade at 4 mph if I stay above 50 rpm. Below that cadence speed, I just can't spin smoothly and my power is just not there for the entire rotation of the crank.

Michael

I watched the video and have read most of the posts. I'm glad the gates were open on the last descent!! What you're doing is the perfect next step. I wouldn't suggest changing anything but your cassette/wheels right now. You are absolutely going to love the 11-28 along with the slightly lighter wheels. My first thought was exactly like Hermes--I doubt you'll be significantly faster but you will ease up the hills much better with the 28. I love my 28 on grades up to the low teens.

Your spinning cadence on the inclines and flats is perfect. Given that and looking at the profile of some of your descents--longer but not extremly steep---the 11 will enable you to spin even more and gain a little more speed on the downhills. Where you were normally spinning out around 32 mph with a 12, you can now push the speed up about 5 mph with a similar cadence.

If you have the power to stand and muscle up with a cadence of 35-40 on the hills, the 28 is gonna be a very, very nice change and should allow you to sit and grunt.

A couple of other things that will help later--lighter wheels and overall lower weight. Since you mentioned the Easton Aeros, I have a pair of Easton SLX (their lightest clincher) and they're under 1500 grams. You can pick them up for around $500 on end of season sales on the net. There are some other clinchers in the 1400 gram range but will probably push you up another $300-400 on sale--Dura Ace, HED Ardenne, etc. For you there are probably some others that are lighter and cheaper like American Classics. The lower spinning weight on the hills feels faster. Overall weight??? I notice a big difference carrying 5 lbs more than normal and that is at 170 lbs. If there is a way to drop more weight overall you will find those hills less steep.

You have a terrific area to ride and train in and it also looks like a great group to ride with. If you get over to Western NC we can put you on some climbs where that 28 will come in super handy!!

Thank you, that was sweet. I've seen those "hills" in Western North Carolina, and they are beautiful as well as steep. That would be magnificent place to ride!

I've done the Death Ride seven or eight times, and a bunch of other climbing rides and races.

I'd suggest a 12-32. 34x32 ought to be low enough as the DR doesn't have many steep sections, the climbs are just long. The descents are mostly wide open high speed where you wouldn't be pedalling a 50x11 and the one that isn't is technical enough that you're not pedalling. I'm one of the faster descenders there and I've never needed more than 50x12.

The 12-32 will have tighter ratio spreads between cogs so you're not stuck between spinning out and grinding. Of course if you think you may need the 34t cog, get it. You can always shift up if it doesn't hurt enough. My first time I had a 53/39/30 triple and I put a 28t cog on the back, losing the 12t. I didn't think I'd need it but I did because I got hyponatremic and wobbled up the last pass at a very low speed. I'd have used a 26x34 if I'd had it.

Any Shimano 9sp mtb rd will work. But avoid the "rapid rise" high normal ones unless you want to shift backwards.

They had really good ice cream at the top of Carson last year.