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Ah, to be more European

Old 07-03-11, 09:40 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
nos88

Your leftwing eliteism (real or imagined) is showing. You need to lighten up and get a little sense of humor.

BTW our forefathers left Europe for a reason, and I see no reason at all to imitate them now.
Don't know how you got there, but suspect you've got some rationale for thinking you know me. All I was saying is some vehicles make sense in some situations and not in others, and some people buy vehicles as status. I guess I could say your right wing fanaticism is showing, but I don't know you and try not to stoop to such labeling. For all I know you could be the most liberal, libertarian, conservative, or authoritarian person on the planet. Please don't read things into what I've said. I generally articulate what I want to say pretty deliberately. Oh, and I did, in fact, enjoy the humor of the quote at the end of your original post.

Concerning my ancestors, they left for reasons of religious persecution, which interestingly enough, my current family still experiences today in the US. You might also be interested in knowing that my family took a leadership role in Pennsylvania during the American Revolution. I can take you to specific sites in which their contributions are directly noted. I'm proud of my heritage including that which extends into my ancestors' European history. Finally, I deeply resent the premise that there is a singular "American". But, hey, I'm going to lighten up and move on from this dead-end discussion.
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Old 07-03-11, 09:52 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Wogster View Post
Eventually the price of gas, will exceed what people can afford to pay for it, and that will signal the beginning of the end of the automobile era.
I'd like to believe that as well, but I'm not convinced it will happen. While the price of gas has dropped some in recent weeks, it's still close to four bucks per gallon on Suburban Boston. It still looks like people are driving their SUV's as much as ever, and we've all heard "the angry ones" who say they won't give up their cars, no matter how expensive gas becomes.

For the record: "The angry ones" are what I call those interesting folks who won't stop smoking cigarettes, despite the price of a pack of smokes. What is it now, six bucks? And, they are the same ones who refuse to wear a seat belt when driving, because, after all, "Nobody tells ME what to do!" This, despite undeniable proof that wearing a seat belt is very likely to save your butt in an accident.
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Old 07-03-11, 10:06 AM
  #78  
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nos88

First of all let me thank you for the service of your forefathers in the war of indpendence. The only point of my post is I really dont like to be called a bigot. The freedom that your forefathers fought for was also for me. That freedom includes the freedom to free speech and to think what I want to. It includes the fact that I take a rather dim view of the socialism and big government of Europe. As a fellow American I say lets enjoy what we have.
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Old 07-03-11, 10:46 AM
  #79  
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I may be near the east coast, but my small town in Georgia is definitely not known for liberal idealism. I find it alternately amusing and perplexing that any suggestion that we may want to conserve resources or make healthier choices brings on accusations of liberalism and big government. Makes no sense to me.
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Old 07-03-11, 11:38 AM
  #80  
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Excellent point, BluesDawg
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Old 07-03-11, 01:04 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
nos88

Your leftwing eliteism (real or imagined) is showing. You need to lighten up and get a little sense of humor.

BTW our forefathers left Europe for a reason, and I see no reason at all to imitate them now.
I get it, if you disagree with the idea of using the biggest possible gasoline using, pollution spewing monster sized truck possible for every little trip, you are an Anti-American Communist. Glad to see that the billion and billions spent by the car companies on marketing to Americans hasn't gone to waste.....
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Old 07-03-11, 03:07 PM
  #82  
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It seems we have lost sight of what it is to be a free capitalistic democracy. I would not expect a European to want to be a US citizen. I don't even expect a Canadian to want to be a US citizen. I don't expect a liberal wants to be a conservative or a republican a democrat. But what I do expect is that someone that has worked for and earned their own money they have a right to buy a Rolls Royce or a lear jet or even a very large power boat or Yacht.

One of the things about the 50+ forum I have always liked is we tend to avoid overly political arguments. I have been to Europe, Asdia and Africa. All three have things I like and all three have things I don't care for. But I would rather be free to live where I like and use the kind of transportation I can afford. If others can afford more or even less that isn't my main concern but theirs.


I love visiting Europe, Asia and Africa but I am glad the US isn't more like any of them.
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Old 07-03-11, 03:47 PM
  #83  
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Please do not over romantisize the idea of bike friendly cities....

Being from Denmark, and having lived in Copenhagen for many years, certainly dispells the myth that bikes, instead of cars in the inner-city is equal to transport nirvana.

Things to consider is you want to adopt the Danish idea of cycling every f.......g where. Cyclists in inner cities seldom pay attention to traffic lights, direction of cycle lanes, right of way on sidewalks, putting you (on foot) or in your car in constant danger of being hit. Combine this with their need to cycle to a "soundtrack" (read iPod) firmly believing they always have the right of way, and you get the idea.
Ever met a drunk cyclists in the middle of the night, swinging from side to side with no lights? I met one once....he hit me from behind whilst I was getting into a taxi....

Try get into your apartment, a subway train to find it blocked by bikes. Get out of the train and notice the oil smear on your trouser. Fall over a bike left in the cellar to your apartment.
Buy a bike only to find it stolen. Try find your bike amongst 5000 other bikes at the station. Find that your bike was removed, because where you could find a place to put it, was not where you are supposed to put it.
Find that some pot smoking student attending Roskilde festival locked his bike onto yours

Try and ride home on your backwheel....(yep, front wheel gone). How about riding home with no saddle.

Find your bike in a tree.

Removing cars from a city has many benefits, but it also puts many of those selfish motorists on bikes, in the firm believe that they can do no wrong. The same egoistic behaviour, now with a green twist.
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Old 07-03-11, 08:58 PM
  #84  
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Hmmmmm..................the truth. Interesting.
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Old 07-04-11, 05:35 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by poululla View Post
Please do not over romantisize the idea of bike friendly cities....
Removing cars from a city has many benefits, but it also puts many of those selfish motorists on bikes, in the firm believe that they can do no wrong. The same egoistic behaviour, now with a green twist.
Ha, maybe I do live in the best of all possible worlds DC is becoming increasingly bike friendly but will never get close to bike dominated as described above. And my neighborhood has embraced outdoor cafes, street fairs, et al. I'm beginning to have my cake and eat it as well.
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Old 07-04-11, 06:31 AM
  #86  
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I genearally consider nationalism a waste of time and energy, but for today - Go Tyler! Beat that Brit and bring one home for the USA on Independence Day!
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Old 07-04-11, 06:34 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by Wogster View Post
I get it, if you disagree with the idea of using the biggest possible gasoline using, pollution spewing monster sized truck possible for every little trip, you are an Anti-American Communist. Glad to see that the billion and billions spent by the car companies on marketing to Americans hasn't gone to waste.....
..and Canadians..

Just riding last night and my street alone has 4 Hummers on it. I estimate that over half have a large SUV of some sort.
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Old 07-04-11, 06:36 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by trackhub View Post
I'd like to believe that as well, but I'm not convinced it will happen. While the price of gas has dropped some in recent weeks, it's still close to four bucks per gallon on Suburban Boston. It still looks like people are driving their SUV's as much as ever, and we've all heard "the angry ones" who say they won't give up their cars, no matter how expensive gas becomes.

For the record: "The angry ones" are what I call those interesting folks who won't stop smoking cigarettes, despite the price of a pack of smokes. What is it now, six bucks? And, they are the same ones who refuse to wear a seat belt when driving, because, after all, "Nobody tells ME what to do!" This, despite undeniable proof that wearing a seat belt is very likely to save your butt in an accident.
What I always find funny, is when gas prices go up a lot at once, and it becomes a news item, and you see the TV people interviewing some guy, it's never the person driving a Yaris or a Smart car, it's always the guy with the big honkin' SUV that you could put my car in the back and have room for two more.... It's funny though, if you go through the "rich" part of a major city, sure they have the Escalade for show, it's probably got 25km on the clock, they guy drives a nice small car in the summer, and an old beater in the winter. BTW you want to talk gas prices, the local Petro-scam here is charging $1.299/L that is $4.936/Gallon, this is why I drive a small car that is fuel efficient.
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Old 07-04-11, 06:52 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by jdon View Post
..and Canadians..

Just riding last night and my street alone has 4 Hummers on it. I estimate that over half have a large SUV of some sort.
The marketing I refer to is the "Your not an American if you don't drive a big V8 from one of the big three. Most of the people that have them here, are just trying to pretend they are Americans. It's interesting though, they always seem to be the first ones to *&^%$ and complain about the price of gas, even though it's their own fault for buying a big truck. There are lots of trucks here on the Bruce, but almost all of them have farm plates on them.....
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Old 07-04-11, 09:58 AM
  #90  
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Don't be so smug my northern neighbor. Your country is very close second worldwide in per capita energy consumption. Of course we're first but you're sucking it down like a thirsty drunk next to us at the bar.

Source
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Old 07-04-11, 11:32 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by XR2 View Post
Don't be so smug my northern neighbor. Your country is very close second worldwide in per capita energy consumption. Of course we're first but you're sucking it down like a thirsty drunk next to us at the bar.

Source
Central heating is a large part of Canada's energy use. This is something that is slowly being fixed, we now have guidelines including things like R2000, and energy star and other similar programs. Unfortunately there are a lot of older buildings that don't meet those standards, I live in one. Fixing this would be complex, expensive and difficult, requiring the replacement of every window and door in the building, pulling the 130 year old lath and plaster out and sealing things up. This probably will never happen, although there are a few things that can and have. The attic has 12" of R30 insulation over most of it, the boiler is a 94% efficient model that was installed 7 years ago. The water heater is gas, and about the same efficiency, it was installed last month. Personally I find energy use is something that costs money, and the less it costs the better. I can't do anything about the price, so I use as little as possible.


, the attic has 5" of fibreglass then a wood floor and another 6" on top of that,


. Mind you the boiler in the basement is 94% efficient and the gas water heater installed a month ago, is just as efficient. If I owned the house rather then renting, I probably would fix a lot of it.
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Old 07-04-11, 03:18 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by XR2 View Post
Don't be so smug my northern neighbor. Your country is very close second worldwide in per capita energy consumption. Of course we're first but you're sucking it down like a thirsty drunk next to us at the bar.

Source
But we are not number one by Nation. Our Good friends in china are and are moving away in leaps and bounds. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...353150310.html

India is moving in the same direction.
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Old 07-04-11, 03:38 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
But we are not number one by Nation. Our Good friends in china are and are moving away in leaps and bounds. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...353150310.html

India is moving in the same direction.
True, but... both of those nations are environmental disasters.

We don't do anything by pointing fingers and we all know that what may be best for the environment has always taken back seat to individual rights and desires, political corruption and economics. Something all nations have in common.
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Old 07-04-11, 03:40 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
But we are not number one by Nation. Our Good friends in china are and are moving away in leaps and bounds. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...353150310.html

India is moving in the same direction.
China's rapid increase in energy demand, and it not giving a %$# about US political desires, is the scary part.
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Old 07-04-11, 06:22 PM
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China has serious problems of their own. And when they crash we're all in trouble.
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Old 07-05-11, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by XR2 View Post
China has serious problems of their own. And when they crash we're all in trouble.
True, China does have problems, however you can't compare the housing bubble in the US that popped in 2008, with the housing bubble in China where the rules are different. Heck even in Canada, the housing bubble popped here at the same time the one in the US did. How many Canadian banks failed because of it, zero, because there are strict rules under which all banks operate on the lending of mortgages. I would think the system in China is closer to the system in Canada, then the system in the US, but when the government owns the banks that's lending the mortgage, as China does, they have a lot more options, then Canada or the US.
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Old 07-05-11, 08:40 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by XR2 View Post
China has serious problems of their own. And when they crash we're all in trouble.
I can't think of a single country that doesn't have some sort of serious problems of their own. I would, however, suggest that solving serious problems can be enhanced with an open mind and a willingness to learn from the experience of others. But, that's the rub. Do, we get so focused on a singular view of what is "right" or that our way is the only or best way to do things, that we can't see possible solutions? I think sometimes we do.
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Old 07-05-11, 09:47 AM
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That is the point of my last couple posts. We're all in the same boat.............................and it's leaking badly.
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Old 07-05-11, 11:42 AM
  #99  
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Most of what we are talking about at this point is wool gathering. The reason the US isn't more like Europe is we don't want to be and have had a long history of wanting to be independant of European thought. To paraphrase Old Blue eyes "We do it our way" . Or if we want to be more PC maybe Jefferson: "It ought to be the very first object of our pursuits to have nothing to do with the European interests and politics. Let them be free or slaves at will, navigators or agriculturists, swallowed into one government or divided into a thousand, we have nothing to fear from them in any form." --Thomas Jefferson to George Logan, 1801.


Bicycle friendly is nothing more than a state of mind. If an individual wants to be more or less car dependant they can freely do so in any state or city without the assistance of being more like Davis, Ca.or Portland, Or.

He is another truth, Urban cyclists are not at war with Suburban cyclists or Rural cyclists. Rodies are not at war with MTBers or Cummuters. They are all just different and have different needs and wants. Just like US citizens are different from Danish citizens, European citizens or Asian citizens. But what they all have in common statistically is they what to use the transportation they can afford or at least feel they can afford. Stop and take a look at almost all developing countries that are moving from third words or second world statusing. China is moving towards a car culture. India is moving towards a car culture. Russia is a growing car culture. The US car market is growing again. And alternative vehicles are being produced. None of that precludes anyone from enjoying and using bicycles only that some people don't and would rather get around some other way.
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Old 07-05-11, 11:48 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
Bicycle friendly is nothing more than a state of mind...
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