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How to co-exist with road clubs that occupy more road real estate than necessary?

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How to co-exist with road clubs that occupy more road real estate than necessary?

Old 06-25-11, 11:13 AM
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How to co-exist with road clubs that occupy more road real estate than necessary?

AMENDED TITLE: How to co-exist with road clubs that occupy more road real estate than necessary?

AMENDED POST:
Often on Saturday mornings I find myself driving behind a road club that rides double. Because of the winding road and hills, it can take several minutes before I have enough visibility to pass them. The don't seem to be aware of the traffic behind them, or perhaps they're just not concerned about it, I'm not sure which.

Last weekend there was a situation where half of the club was going east and the other half was going west. Traffic was backed up behind them in both directions.

As an almost daily cyclist, I try to share the road with cars. I ride to the right of the white shoulder line if the shoulder is paved and wide enough, and I pull off the road to accommodate cars rather than forcing them to follow me at low speed for several minutes. I'm happy to do that out of simple courtesy.

What is the thinking of a road club that rides like this habitually?

Aside from the obvious concerns of safety and the law, what is the proper etiquette for both drivers and cyclists to accommodate each other?

Thank you for your input.

Last edited by GetUpnGo; 06-25-11 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 06-25-11, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by GetUpnGo


What's the best way to deal with these folks?
Waiting for however long it takes until it is safe to pass.

They have as much right to the road as you.
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Old 06-25-11, 11:32 AM
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Hmm.You're "upset at cyclists who "claim a strip of pavement 5' wide when riding single file"? Road hogs?

How about - a bicycle is a vehicle entitled by law to a full lane regardless of traffic load? (Okay, except on Interstates.) Don't like that? Hmmm. Okay, how about - what do you want them to do - move over so that you can pass them on "narrow, winding roads" within THEIR lane while compromising THEIR safety just so you can move along a bit faster?

Sorry. I have no sympathy for your plight.

Proper etiquette for you is to drive slowly and quietly behind them and realize they are as entitled as you are to the road. Pass them when it's safe to do so - period.

Double file and weaving riders? I won't argue with you about those guys. They have legal and safety issues of their own to deal with. Personally, I'd find another route if that's a common occurence on roads you routinely drive on - nothing worse than having to drive by accidents/blood/mangled bikes and downed riders you might actually know.

(None of that was tongue in cheek.)
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Old 06-25-11, 12:17 PM
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Double file is quite legal in Indiana and other places.
I do try to make it easy for motorists to pass, whenever possible.
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Old 06-25-11, 12:22 PM
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Depending on which state you're in, riding 2 abreast within a single lane is legal. Same with weaving from side to side, but I personally wouldn't recommend or do either.

Originally Posted by GetUpnGo
I live in an area with narrow, winding roads with little opportunity to pass these road hogs safely. Sometimes I drive along at 16 mph for several minutes before it's safe to pass them. They seem oblivious to the traffic behind them......

What's the best way to deal with these folks?
The best way to deal with such folks is exactly the same way you'd deal with being behind drivers of slow moving motor vehicles, whether it be cars, trucks, or motorcyles that are riding single file or 2 abreast. Same for horse carriages too. Ever been to Amish country?
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Old 06-25-11, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by GetUpnGo
But the question is, HOW MUCH of the road do they have a right to? Please qualify your reply. I'm sure you wouldn't say that a cyclist or two cyclists riding double can take up one lane indefinitely. Would you yourself claim 5 feet of the pavement for as long as you wished, on a narrow road? And what's the point of that if there's only one car behind you and you could easily pull over and let that car pass? Or what's the point when one cyclist holds up a long line of cars?

"Right" isn't the only consideration. There's also manners.
You're the one who defined the situation as "narrow winding roads". That implies a lack of sufficient width for a car to pass within the confines of the lane while providing "3 feet" of safety for the bike.

I have and will continue to "claim the lane" when it's appropriate - including for more distance than drivers behind me think appropriate when I believe it's appropriate for me to do so. I do, when it is safe, allow traffic behind me to pass, but I don't go out of my way to do so when my safety is involved.

FWIW, there have been numerous occasions where I've deliberately ridden way over in the left hand tire track to prevent cars from even considering overtaking me on "narrow winding roads". Better they get ticked than I get squashed or run off the road however unintentionally.

This attitude was born from years of motorcycling where cars would assume that, since I was riding in the right hand tire track, it was safe to pass me half in and half out of the lane! If 4-wheeled (or more) vehicles don't "honor" motorcycles' right to the lane, shrug - nevermind....
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Old 06-25-11, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by GetUpnGo
As a cyclist I have full respect for the sport and no love for drivers who pass me too close, cut me off, etc.

Now, as a DRIVER, I'm irritated by the weekend club riders who ride double, claim a strip of pavement 5' wide when riding single file, or weave from side to side. I can't understand this. When I ride in traffic I try to ride in a straight line and take up as little space as possible. If I can safely ride on the right side of the white shoulder line I do so.

I live in an area with narrow, winding roads with little opportunity to pass these road hogs safely. Sometimes I drive along at 16 mph for several minutes before it's safe to pass them. They seem oblivious to the traffic behind them.

What's the thinking behind this behavior? "We have a right to one full lane"?

What's the best way to deal with these folks?

For me as a cyclist, what is the proper etiquette and safe riding habit in traffic?
You are not going to like this, friend.

If a cyclist riding taking a five-foot ribbon of road makes it unsafe to pass in that lane, as it certainly seems from your "narrow" description, a single cyclist really should be taking a position to occupy the WHOLE lane to keep people like you from trying to do an unsafe pass. Imagine the rider two feet from pavement edge and the required three-foot safety zone and do the math for yourself. If there's not enough room left for you and your motor vehicle, a pass is unsafe. If cyclists are riding two or three wide on that same road they are doing you a favor by shortening the lane you must pass.

You might ask yourself about your sense of entitlement to travel at a speed exceeding 16 MPH. Are you so important that the police should be closing intersections as you approach? Do you hire a helicopter to free you from those odious traffic jams? Do you hire your own jet rather than endure those airport waits?

If a group rides two or three wide on a road or street with the lane wide and otherwise safe enough for single-file sharing, I think they are being inconsiderate and their mothers and fathers should give them a stern lecture. This, however, does not seem the case from your description thus you are awarded the parental lecture.

It happens that I have been known to pull off the road to let faster vehicles through when traffic is too heavy or sight lines bad for safe passing. You would still, however, find yourself behind me for "several minutes." Grow some patience and enjoy your life.
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Old 06-25-11, 02:02 PM
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Clearly there is a warp in the space time continuum nearby, and we have all gone through the wormhole to a non-cycling forum, and back in time a couple of decades.
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Old 06-25-11, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by gcottay

...You might ask yourself about your sense of entitlement to travel at a speed exceeding 16 MPH. Are you so important that the police should be closing intersections as you approach? Do you hire a helicopter to free you from those odious traffic jams? Do you hire your own jet rather than endure those airport waits?...
Maybe the OP comes from Moscow, Russia where all the truly important people hire police ******* to help them get through the chronically backed-up traffic.

I do not understand how motorists are never upset at the millions of cars jamming the roads but just make them wait a few moments for a cyclist and they need a wahmbulance.
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Old 06-25-11, 02:47 PM
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There is often this friction between car drivers who occasionally bicycle and bicyclists who don't bicycle in the manner they do. When driving a car they are often the ones shouting "get on the sidewalk" etc. because that is where they would be riding their bicycle. What is really sad is these people are often the most aggressive in their behavior towards bicyclists. If waiting "several minutes" to safely pass someone on a bicycle is a source of irritation for you then you should really ask yourself what your priorities are in life are. It's time to see a therapist. What I find strange is that with all the extra endorphins cyclists supposedly get from cycling why are so many of them angry much of the time?
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Old 06-25-11, 02:48 PM
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It's all about partnership and doing what we can to help others with their needs. If a cyclist needs to take up more road because of something that you can't see as a motorist (like crumbled paving on the shoulder), then help him or her out by easing up and being patient. If a motor vehicle is overtaking and you as a cyclist can make it easier by moving over, then do it. The hard part of all of this is that neither cyclist nor motorist can read each others mind. We need to work on this part.

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Old 06-25-11, 03:00 PM
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There is the law and then there is common courtesy. Sometimes a cyclist needs the whole lane as the law allows. But when a cyclist does not need the whole lane, that cyclist should demonstrate courtesy to other road users. "Share the Road" goes both ways.
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Old 06-25-11, 03:19 PM
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In my 64 years, there has never been a place I was going to that wasn't there when I got there. And if it wasn't there when I got there, I probably had no business going there in the first place. If they are riding slow or blocking you, ride with them. Who knows, you might make some new friends. As for cars, they are bigger, heavier and faster then I am. I usually let them have the road, winding or otherwise. In my opinion, a 10 mph safe ride is better than a 16 mph dangerous one. I love riding my bikes. If it takes me an extra 10 or 15 minutes to get somewhere, then that's 10 or 15 minutes doing something I love.
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Old 06-25-11, 03:22 PM
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[QUOTE=drmweaver2;12839226]You're the one who defined the situation as "narrow winding roads". That implies a lack of sufficient width for a car to pass within the confines of the lane while providing "3 feet" of safety for the bike. QUOTE]

No, that's not the case at all. The problem is visibility. I can't see far enough ahead on country back roads to pass safely due to curves and hills. I certainly always respect three feet of safety, in fact I give bikes a much wider margin than that.
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Old 06-25-11, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by GetUpnGo
I have to say I'm disappointed in the aggressive replies to my inquiry.
Maybe it's because, despite your objections to having assumptions made about you, you made assumptions about those riders, and called them "road hogs' in the title of your post? Or maybe it's because you described a scenario that, to the reader, made it appear that the cyclists needed to take the road?

Maybe those cyclists are just as courteous as you are, and you happened to come up behind them just after they had let a line of cars pass? Who knows. But we do know one thing - that you set the tone of this thread.

I suspect that most of us here do go out of our way to avoid inconveniencing motorists, even to the point of sacrificing personal safety.
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Old 06-25-11, 04:24 PM
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So where do you ride?
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Old 06-25-11, 07:13 PM
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caveat: I did not read the original post before it was amended. My response is to the post as it is written now.

Frankly I am surprised at the venom being aimed at the OP. I have seen the kind of self-important inconsiderate groups of riders that the OP describes and it embarrasses me that people would associate their behavior with the activity I love. While it is important to take the lane when needed for safety, it is common decency to ride in such a way as to not unnecessarily interfere with other people using the road. Sharing the road is a two way deal.

Drivers need to be patient and wait for a safe opportunity to pass cyclists, but cyclists need to respect that others use the roads as well. If conditions are such that long lines of cars form behind a cycling group, they should ride single file and possibly pull over on occasion to avoid creating a bottleneck. It is the decent thing to do.

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Old 06-25-11, 07:21 PM
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Old 06-25-11, 07:26 PM
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As a cyclist and a driver of cars, I can understand the position of GetupnGo. Biicycles do, indeed, have a right to the road, but obstructing traffic when it would be just as easy to ride single file is not a good choice. The natural flow of traffic on country roads is far in excess of 15 or 20 mph. When I'm cycling on a narrow country road I stay to the right as much as I can to allow cars to pass. It is the courteous thing to do. Why piss people off by staying in the middle of the lane and not allow them to pass? If I were in a car I wouldn't drive at 20 mph and prevent other cars from passing even though I would have "a right to the road." Courtesy goes a long way to keeping people civil to one another.
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Old 06-25-11, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jackb
As a cyclist and a driver of cars, I can understand the position of GetupnGo. Biicycles do, indeed, have a right to the road, but obstructing traffic when it would be just as easy to ride single file is not a good choice. The natural flow of traffic on country roads is far in excess of 15 or 20 mph. When I'm cycling on a narrow country road I stay to the right as much as I can to allow cars to pass. It is the courteous thing to do. Why piss people off by staying in the middle of the lane and not allow them to pass? If I were in a car I wouldn't drive at 20 mph and prevent other cars from passing even though I would have "a right to the road." Courtesy goes a long way to keeping people civil to one another.
Although this has been answered many times in various places on these forums, I just thought I would do it one more time. When I am in the middle of the lane on narrow country roads, or any road for that matter, I am there for a reason. Sometimes, the reason is a road hazard that is not visible or even relevant to motorists. Sometimes it is because the lane is about to become too narrow for a motor vehicle to safely pass me while sharing the lane and I am communicating that fact in advance. Most often, the lane is simply too narrow for a motorist to safely pass me without moving into the next lane.

Sadly, most motorists will attempt to pass a gutter-hugger when there is insufficient room to do so safely. In a perfect world, motorists wouldn't buzz (or hit) cyclists. In that world, cyclists could safely move further right than is safe to do now. Until we reach that wonderful state of happy co-existence, high-mileage cyclists will take the lane whenever it is not safe to share it, since to do otherwise invites a dangerous "sharing" maneuver by careless or ignorant motorists. We're not trying to piss anyone off. We're just using a tried and true technique to stay safe, a technique that is in the vehicle code of every state that I have lived in.

It's funny how when motorists are stuck behind a large truck going up a hill at 20 mph, which is likely as fast as that truck will go, no one gets too upset. Put those same motorists behind a cyclist going 20 mph, and suddenly their blood pressure goes off the charts.
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Old 06-25-11, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by BluesDawg
caveat: I did not read the original post before it was amended. My response is to the post as it is written now
The OP started by describing a narrow road as quoted in #7 above. That descriptor, one key in determining safe riding practice, is now missing but I assume the road itself has not changed. He also thinks riders who claim a five foot strip of road -- two feet from the road edge plus three feet of clearance -- and thus slow him down to 16 MPH for "several minutes" are road hogs.
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Old 06-25-11, 08:14 PM
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Old 06-25-11, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by gcottay
He also thinks riders who claim a five foot strip of road -- two feet from the road edge plus three feet of clearance -- and thus slow him down to 16 MPH for "several minutes" are road hogs.
I agree with him. Clogging up traffic for several minutes is very different from briefly taking a lane to prevent unsafe passing in a particularly dangerous spot - imho.
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Old 06-25-11, 08:28 PM
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Riding 'no more than 2 abreast' is legal in the 30-some-odd states I've ridden; some times it may not be advisable, but it is legal.
Get used to it and . . .
SHARE the road.
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Old 06-25-11, 08:32 PM
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. . . and how do you deal with a big semi slowly riding in front of you on an uphill and another one coming from the opposite direction?
Just blow your horn and have the trucks move over?
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