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Contador

Old 07-02-11, 11:25 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by kenji666 View Post
AC will win the 2011 TdF.
By glaming on to some other team so he can do no work. Just as he has done in the past. Minus Lance in an Astana jersey, AC finishes non podium. If his hearing does not go well he can play soccer for the Mexico National side, seems they both like the same drugs. AC's team only has one cyclist on it.
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Old 07-02-11, 01:41 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by jdon View Post
I wish you mods wouldn't do that to this forum. There is at least some maturity and respect here so people can read and discuss without juvenile insults that inevitably occur.
The pro racing forum generally stays civil, and there is certainly mor knowledge of the details than is being displayed in this thread.

Al... Wake up! Lance tested positive for EPO at the Tour de Suisse, and the cycling governing body made it go away. The same governing body he contributed a lot of money to.

And Black Panthers? Gimme a break. That has no place here.
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Old 07-02-11, 02:19 PM
  #53  
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Too bad the prima donna Contador didn't listen to Bruyneel rather than opposing him. This is twice he got caught in the back half of a peloton and he's 80 seconds back accordingly. Schleck and the Radio Shack guys are 6 seconds back.

We'll see his team skills in the team time trial.

Al
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Old 07-02-11, 02:33 PM
  #54  
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Very lucky day for Andy... he crashes, finishes with Contador, but is given the time back due to the 3km rule.

And Al, you are one negative dude. If you are interested in a bet, I'll be happy to still take Contador. Andy will of course be riding his wheel relentlessly from here on out, but I think AC can drop him on enough climbs to make up most of the difference, then use the ITT for the rest.

Sad to see the race influenced so much by a spectator edging onto the course in the closing km's.
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Old 07-02-11, 03:31 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by jdon View Post
I wish you mods wouldn't do that to this forum. There is at least some maturity and respect here so people can read and discuss without juvenile insults that inevitably occur.
+1
Don't start moving threads around.
It has long been one of the characteristics of this subforum that a wide variety of topics are discussed with the common thread being that it is 50+ y/o cyclists discussing them. My earlier question was about whether Bikeforums has tools that I could use to make myself less likely to disrupt the civility of the discussion. Probably a question better asked in a different place.

Tough break for AC for his chase group to get delayed another 30 or 40 seconds while waiting for a second crash to clear up while those immediately caught up in the second crash, including AS, lost no time. But them's the breaks. That's bike racing. My money is still on AC, but it will take some bigger fireworks in the mountains to make it happen.

I thought Cancellara had made the winning move near the finish, but Gilbert was able to quickly cover it and managed to hold him off all the way to the line. Exciting racing!

Last edited by BluesDawg; 07-02-11 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 07-02-11, 04:10 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
Very lucky day for Andy... he crashes, finishes with Contador, but is given the time back due to the 3km rule.

And Al, you are one negative dude. If you are interested in a bet, I'll be happy to still take Contador. Andy will of course be riding his wheel relentlessly from here on out, but I think AC can drop him on enough climbs to make up most of the difference, then use the ITT for the rest.

Sad to see the race influenced so much by a spectator edging onto the course in the closing km's.
Negative? Is that because I disagree with you and therefore it must be due to some personality defect?


When Armstrong was brought to the ground by a spectator's food bag, he rightly blamed himself. A rider who is not situationally/Spectator aware is a risk to everyone as we saw today.


I don't bet. I have no idea at this point who will be in contention when it counts which is many miles away.


You would think Contador would have learned the first time he got caught in the back of a split peloton. The rest of the Astana team then was not. I guess Bruyneel must have taken the batteries out of Contador's radio or maybe it was Armstrong.

Stand by, Spain may protest


Al
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Old 07-02-11, 04:34 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
The pro racing forum generally stays civil, and there is certainly mor knowledge of the details than is being displayed in this thread.

Al... Wake up! Lance tested positive for EPO at the Tour de Suisse, and the cycling governing body made it go away. The same governing body he contributed a lot of money to.

And Black Panthers? Gimme a break. That has no place here.
How is EPO tested? Is it based on a test passport and individual history? If so, he probably received EPO for anemia during cancer treatment which would give him an artificially high number. Just maintaining that level after treatment would give him a significant advantage.

That said, they are ALL dopers IMHO.
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Old 07-02-11, 06:43 PM
  #58  
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After reading the comments above, I am now cheering for AC.
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Old 07-02-11, 07:15 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by alcanoe View Post
Negative? Is that because I disagree with you and therefore it must be due to some personality defect?
No, it's because of the attacking nature of many of your comments.

You would think Contador would have learned the first time he got caught in the back of a split peloton. The rest of the Astana team then was not. I guess Bruyneel must have taken the batteries out of Contador's radio or maybe it was Armstrong.
This is the kind of comment I'm alluding to. Very disparaging, and you are once again ignoring facts, making it sound like AC didn't pay attention to the spectators. Have you ever raced in a peloton, Al? Are you aware of the fluidity; the constant shifting forward and back that occurs for everyone, and every team, that isn't pulling at the front? And of course you are aware that AC wasn't 'caught in a split peloton'. He, along with a host of others, were caught by a crash. Big difference between that, and something like the wind or inattention causing a split.
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Old 07-02-11, 07:18 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by jdon View Post
How is EPO tested? Is it based on a test passport and individual history? If so, he probably received EPO for anemia during cancer treatment which would give him an artificially high number. Just maintaining that level after treatment would give him a significant advantage.

That said, they are ALL dopers IMHO.
No, I don't believe it is passport based, but would have to do a search to confirm.
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Old 07-02-11, 07:48 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by alcanoe View Post
Drugs are so evil that California has about legalized some while the DOJ sits on it's hands. The DOJ thinks it's ok for Black Panthers to stand out in front of poling places carrying weapons. I'm sick of the DOJ.

The world cycling "court" has found Armstrong innocent on countless occuasions and sometimes they were forced to do so by lawsuit. How many times does a person have to prove himself innocent? Ever hear of double jepordy?

I know of no country interceeding in a drug case for an athlete except for Spain. If it occurs it's rare. The US should NOT have interceeded for Armstrong.

You reach too far. You arguement lacks credibility.

Al
I still wonder though if any PED actually helps in bicycle racing, and if it does help, does it help enough to deal with the fact that, that &^%$ can kill you.... Testing is intended to make it that all participants are participating fairly, some of those tests will fail for good reason, for example a rider is ill and on a medication that appears similar in testing to a banned substance. What I do not think is fair is to allow a participant to be in a race, when a court case is pending that could lead to them being banned over the period that race takes place. Either the participant should not be allowed to participate until it's settled, or the ban should start after the case is resolved. Meaning that if a racer doped in 2010 and won in 2011, the 2010 result can be changed, but the 2011 one can't.
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Old 07-03-11, 05:52 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Wogster View Post
I still wonder though if any PED actually helps in bicycle racing, and if it does help, does it help enough to deal with the fact that, that &^%$ can kill you.... Testing is intended to make it that all participants are participating fairly, some of those tests will fail for good reason, for example a rider is ill and on a medication that appears similar in testing to a banned substance. What I do not think is fair is to allow a participant to be in a race, when a court case is pending that could lead to them being banned over the period that race takes place. Either the participant should not be allowed to participate until it's settled, or the ban should start after the case is resolved. Meaning that if a racer doped in 2010 and won in 2011, the 2010 result can be changed, but the 2011 one can't.
All good points. There is some indirect evidence that drugs do enhance performance somewhat. Bicycle quarterly did a statistical analysis of the average speeds for the TdF, one of the classics and running races (two distances) starting in the 1950s. They chose a starting point here the roads in the mountains were all paved and the bike geometries were pretty much like the modern counterparts. They found that the winning average speeds increased at exactly the same rate until like 5 years ago. Their conclusion was it's not the bike, but advances in the athlete that have led to the improved performance.

However, for the last 5(?) years, the speeds for all have actually decreased somewhat rather than continuing up at the historical rate. They conclude that the likely cause is more stringent drug enforcement.

There is a bill that will be introduced in the senate again to legalize drugs. The advocates of legalizing them make some good arguments. I'm opposed due to the negatives like destroying one's mental abilities including initiative. Even our now legal drugs like alcohol can do that.

Al
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Old 07-03-11, 06:08 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
The pro racing forum generally stays civil, and there is certainly mor knowledge of the details than is being displayed in this thread.


And Black Panthers? Gimme a break. That has no place here.

So you have to go into details to comment. You could be the detail police as well as the censor.

Possibly you could also come up with a written standard of political correctness to level the playing field. The after the fact judgment call is too much like an attempt at intimidation.


Al
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Old 07-03-11, 06:11 AM
  #64  
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Contador the conquistador.

Fits, no?
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Old 07-03-11, 06:13 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
No, it's because of the attacking nature of many of your comments.



This is the kind of comment I'm alluding to. Very disparaging, and you are once again ignoring facts, making it sound like AC didn't pay attention to the spectators. Have you ever raced in a peloton, Al? Are you aware of the fluidity; the constant shifting forward and back that occurs for everyone, and every team, that isn't pulling at the front? And of course you are aware that AC wasn't 'caught in a split peloton'. He, along with a host of others, were caught by a crash. Big difference between that, and something like the wind or inattention causing a split.

So, it's not my personality, but my nature.

I tell you what. DON'T READ MY POSTS.

Al
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Old 07-03-11, 06:17 AM
  #66  
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Old 07-03-11, 06:20 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by gcottay View Post
Uh, pardon my ignorance, but is the whole race supposed to come to a stop when one rider has a mechanical problem?
No, but it's an unofficial courtesy between competitors. For instance, Jan Ullrich was accidentally forced off the road into a tree and Lance slowed up , gave him time to get a new bike and catch up. Later Lance said, "I wouldn't want to beat him like that, he'd do the same for me."

Marc
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Old 07-03-11, 06:32 AM
  #68  
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I can see where that can become a gray area quicikly. As was said before, Schleck did not slow or stop earlier in the race. Did either of them know it, etc. If Schleck is over it, we should be too.
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Old 07-04-11, 09:32 PM
  #69  
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This is just too hard to pass up although you never know when you might have to eat crow.

End of Stage 3 GC Contador in 69th place +1.42 Where's the beef?
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Old 07-04-11, 10:26 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by oilman_15106 View Post
This is just too hard to pass up although you never know when you might have to eat crow.

End of Stage 3 GC Contador in 69th place +1.42 Where's the beef?
Let's see how things look after this one.
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Old 07-05-11, 03:21 AM
  #71  
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Yes, it is too early to crow, but it sure brings some of us joy. That's especially so with the performance of the American teams.

Other then a more interesting race design, the Versus presentation seems a lot slicker this year. Also, the commercials seem shorter and fewer, but I could be mistaken as I fast forward. Did NBC buy versus or just the TdF rights? NBC seems to have improved things.

It's going to be tough for Contador. It appears his team is not very strong, he's way back and he did the Giro and that may tell in the third week.

Al
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Old 07-05-11, 04:34 AM
  #72  
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While I can't agree with finding joy in any rider's misfortunes, I have definitely enjoyed seeing the great results for Garmin-Cervello. Winning their first ever stage in the TTT and Thor going into yellow followed the next day by Tyler winning his first stage ever, first time for an American to win the stage on the 4th of July. Watching Hushovd set up the finish, leading Julian Dean and Tyler Farrar through the crowd and into pefect position for Dean to launch Farrar, was a thing of beauty as was the beaming smile on Thor's face as Tyler crossed the line first.

Contador is definitely in a tough position due to being caught in the crashes on stage one. Losing a little time in the TTT was no surprise. I would have expected them to lose even more there. This Saxo Bank team is not a strong team for controlling flat stages, but they should be much stronger in the big mountains where Contador's main strength lies. The pressure will be on them to produce results when the routes go vertical.

Andy Schleck is also under pressure to put time into his rivals in the mountains. He can count on losing time to several of them in the ITT. It's going to be an interesting few weeks.
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Old 07-05-11, 05:07 AM
  #73  
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I find joy in Contador's delima because of the double standard applied to him vs Armstrong and the other American riders. Then too, my belief that Contadore is a poor sportsman based on the standards of the peloton culture as explained numerous times in the past by Phil/Paul which are consistent with the books I have read on the sport. The major part of the time gap was due to poor judgement by Contadore which he has exibited in the past. You could not have worked for Bruyneel and not have known better IF you were paying attention as a team player would have.

Al
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Old 07-05-11, 05:14 AM
  #74  
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yawn
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Old 07-05-11, 06:18 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
yawn
And you're the guy who said:

"Is it possible to add a thread to an ignore list the way you can with a user?"

"Absolutely. I'm not suggesting anyone not discuss anything or that a thread be moved anywhere. But sometimes I would like to exercise my free will by choosing not to be tempted into certain discussions. "

You just waisted my time. But, that's OK. I can handle it.

Al

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