Fast tires, slow tires... does it really matter?
12-18-11, 06:42 PM
#26
Senior Member
As opposed to low pressure? There is a reason why your car will generate more MPG when tires are inflated properly (I suppose that might translate to better rolling resistance in a bicycle tire). I've kept my PSI just under 100psi and dealt with the increased road feel.
12-18-11, 07:05 PM
#27
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Any tire I ride on will be noticeably slower than the tires ridden by the guys who are faster than me.
12-18-11, 08:23 PM
#28
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I have raced on Conti GP 4000S tires the past 2 years. I don't think there is much of a noticeable difference between comparable branded tires. I think tire pressure needs to be adjusted to the surface. Too much air pressure on a rough chip/seal road will cause the wheel to constantly bounce which robs speed. Too little air pressure causes the tire to flex creating friction which also robs speed. The rider needs to consider the conditions and find the happy medium.
12-18-11, 08:53 PM
#29
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We all know there is no answer to the tire question don't we? Conti 4000 is a fine tire. Still no one is likely to change their opinion on air pressure or how wide a tire should be.
12-18-11, 09:29 PM
#30
Hills!
Thread Starter
https://www.zipp.com/accessories/tires.php
I guess this is what he was talking about. I see they even include an inflation chart:
Last edited by speedlever; 12-18-11 at 09:32 PM.
12-18-11, 09:46 PM
#31
Hills!
Thread Starter
Well. I obviously haven't shopped for tires for a while. My Conti GP4000s are $100 for a twin pack at PBK. Last time I bought they were about $83 total charges. The Zipps are $75/ea.
A bit of sticker shock here...
Edit: I see the Michelin PR3 are about $40/tire at PBK. Plus my CC transaction fees.
A bit of sticker shock here...
Edit: I see the Michelin PR3 are about $40/tire at PBK. Plus my CC transaction fees.
Last edited by speedlever; 12-18-11 at 09:58 PM.
12-18-11, 09:48 PM
#32
Hills!
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12-19-11, 01:20 AM
#33
Senior Member
If you're riding Conti GP4000S in the 23 size, there aren't many faster tires and the differences are so small only a machine could measure. As far as pressure, there's nothing wrong with inflating near or at max. Some people use less just to improve comfort and the pressure depends upon weight.
a). GP4000Ss are among the "fastest" tires out there - insofar as tires can indeed be "fast".
b). The 25 / 23 measurement will make a difference, though there's be some debate about exactly what the difference is - with some arguing that 25s are faster. (I disagree - 23s are faster.)
c). Tire pressure will make far more difference that a change in tire manufacturer.
All IM(very)HO
12-19-11, 07:30 AM
#34
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In the last test I read the Continental GP 4000 was rated a hair slower in a coast down than the new Michelin Pro4 Race Course. Not enough difference for me to notice I assure you. I had the GP 4000 on my R500 for several years and went to the Michelin Pro3
Service Course last December, when I needed new tires. Amazon had a super deal on the Pro3 and I grabbed 3 of them, sized 700CX23, with Michelin tubes. the Michelin Pro3 is feeling good to me but so did the Continental GP 4000.
I could understand his statement if he was talking about wheelsets and the Zipp is a super wheelset. It is "Available in both tubular and clincher" could apply to the wheelset also. Your GP 4000 is a fine tire and I doubt you will feel much difference between them and another top line clincher tire in either 23 or 25.
Bill
Service Course last December, when I needed new tires. Amazon had a super deal on the Pro3 and I grabbed 3 of them, sized 700CX23, with Michelin tubes. the Michelin Pro3 is feeling good to me but so did the Continental GP 4000.
I could understand his statement if he was talking about wheelsets and the Zipp is a super wheelset. It is "Available in both tubular and clincher" could apply to the wheelset also. Your GP 4000 is a fine tire and I doubt you will feel much difference between them and another top line clincher tire in either 23 or 25.
Bill
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12-19-11, 08:54 AM
#35
Hills!
Thread Starter
snip
I could understand his statement if he was talking about wheelsets and the Zipp is a super wheelset. It is "Available in both tubular and clincher" could apply to the wheelset also. Your GP 4000 is a fine tire and I doubt you will feel much difference between them and another top line clincher tire in either 23 or 25.
Bill
I could understand his statement if he was talking about wheelsets and the Zipp is a super wheelset. It is "Available in both tubular and clincher" could apply to the wheelset also. Your GP 4000 is a fine tire and I doubt you will feel much difference between them and another top line clincher tire in either 23 or 25.
Bill
I didn't think to check Amazon's pricing. I see I can get either the Conti GP4000s or the Michelin Pro Race 3 700cX23 for within pennies of each other... ~$45/ea. I'm surprised they beat PBK on the Contis.
12-19-11, 10:07 AM
#36
I need speed
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Tubular vs. clincher relates to the wheel, so I'd give really good odds that he was talking about the whole shebang; that you would be faster with a set of good wheels, fitted with the appropriate tires. Most people who ride Zipp wheels don't ride Zipp tires. In fact, I've seen a whole lot of Zipp wheels in races and group rides, and I've never once seen a Zipp tire, even in a shop. Carbon tubular wheels, with appropriate tires (most people mount either Vittoria or Continental), provide the fastest combination of low weight and low rolling resistance, and I'm guessing that's his point.
12-19-11, 10:10 AM
#37
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That is true. However, I am sure he was talking about the tires themselves. He said they only had one tire that came in both clincher and tubular. That's pretty specific... and is true, whereas their wheelsets are numerous.
I didn't think to check Amazon's pricing. I see I can get either the Conti GP4000s or the Michelin Pro Race 3 700cX23 for within pennies of each other... ~$45/ea. I'm surprised they beat PBK on the Contis.
I didn't think to check Amazon's pricing. I see I can get either the Conti GP4000s or the Michelin Pro Race 3 700cX23 for within pennies of each other... ~$45/ea. I'm surprised they beat PBK on the Contis.
12-19-11, 12:16 PM
#39
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I like fiddling around with things like tire pressure, rotating weight and rolling resistance. I am still riding about as fast/slow as ever, but I like fiddling.
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12-19-11, 12:29 PM
#40
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L.
12-19-11, 12:30 PM
#41
Hills!
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12-19-11, 12:31 PM
#42
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Fas tires or slow tires, does it really matter? Not to me. reliable, thats what matters to me. Of course who wants a slow tire?
12-19-11, 01:31 PM
#43
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For a car, proper inflation is the pressure specified on the door, not the max psi printed on the sidewall. Same for your bike. Proper inflation depends on the load. Above that pressure, you will get an increasingly harsh ride but will not experience lower rolling resistance.
https://www.hybridcars.com/gas-saving...ota-prius.html
"
Tire pressure (i.e., rolling resistance) has a significant influence on fuel economy, and an obvious impact on safety and the quality of your ride. Do the research, and make your own decisions about how far to take the tire pressure to maximize mileage.
Drivers getting the highest mileage recommend using the recommended maximum tire pressure on the sidewalls—not the psi supplied by the automaker on the doorframe."
Obviously for both cars and bikes there are other considerations besides minimizing rolling resistance such as comfort, traction, chance of blowouts (esp. when going well above the max. rating on the sidewall), tire wear, etc.
12-19-11, 03:35 PM
#44
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GP4000s are lightning quick compared to some heavy touring tires. (Schwalbe Marathon comes to mind.)
If you were with the group at the end of the ride, what more do you want? If you were to go off and leave them all behind, you'd have to work a whole lot harder. So smile, thank him for that generous advice, and then ignore the guy.
If you were with the group at the end of the ride, what more do you want? If you were to go off and leave them all behind, you'd have to work a whole lot harder. So smile, thank him for that generous advice, and then ignore the guy.
12-19-11, 03:54 PM
#45
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changing wheels will have more of an impact (both on your speed and wallet) than changing your tires. Maybe this guy had a spare set of tires his wife was making him get rid of?
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12-19-11, 04:03 PM
#46
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That is true. However, I am sure he was talking about the tires themselves. He said they only had one tire that came in both clincher and tubular. That's pretty specific... and is true, whereas their wheelsets are numerous.
I didn't think to check Amazon's pricing. I see I can get either the Conti GP4000s or the Michelin Pro Race 3 700cX23 for within pennies of each other... ~$45/ea. I'm surprised they beat PBK on the Contis.
I didn't think to check Amazon's pricing. I see I can get either the Conti GP4000s or the Michelin Pro Race 3 700cX23 for within pennies of each other... ~$45/ea. I'm surprised they beat PBK on the Contis.
You still may want to talk to him about wheelsets if you are still on your stock wheelsets. I am looking into some Ritchey wheeelsets that will save me quite a few grams.
Bill
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I Can Do All Things Through Him, Who Gives Me Strength. Philippians 4:13
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12-19-11, 04:11 PM
#47
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12-19-11, 06:56 PM
#48
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You have a hard time believing tires make a difference??? I am shocked! Shocked! Haven't you been reading the ads, and the testimonials, following the tour riders on twitter? Are you that out of touch with the latest rubber technology and active secret compounds (Black Chili etc.). Get with it, why I have a good mind to report you to the Michelin Man immediately!
12-19-11, 07:12 PM
#49
Hills!
Thread Starter
Sigh. I am so without a clue.
!